Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

Johnny Utah said:
Nice Monday morning quarterbacking there... :roll:

I never got that hang of that particular talking point. What do you mean by that?
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

BitWhys said:
Johnny Utah said:
Nice Monday morning quarterbacking there... :roll:

I never got that hang of that particular talking point. What do you mean by that?
It was directed to Fuzzy's comments regarding the Highway of Death from the First Gulf War. I should have made that clear, and ITN explained what "Monday morning quarterbacking" means..
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

I think not said:
One who criticizes or passes judgment from a position of hindsight.

I don't understand how pointing out that access to the "Highway of Shame" is presently prohibited can be described as "hindsight".

a little help?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

BitWhys said:
I think not said:
One who criticizes or passes judgment from a position of hindsight.

I don't understand how pointing out that access to the "Highway of Shame" is presently prohibited can be described as "hindsight".

a little help?

All I did was provide an explanation what Monday morning quarterbacking is, the rest is up to you. :D
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

I think not said:
BitWhys said:
I think not said:
One who criticizes or passes judgment from a position of hindsight.

I don't understand how pointing out that access to the "Highway of Shame" is presently prohibited can be described as "hindsight".

a little help?

All I did was provide an explanation what Monday morning quarterbacking is, the rest is up to you. :D

:lol:

fair enough
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

Johnny Utah said:
It was directed to Fuzzy's comments regarding the Highway of Death from the First Gulf War. I should have made that clear, and ITN explained what "Monday morning quarterbacking" means..

I don't understand how pointing out that access to the "Highway of Shame" is presently prohibited can be described as "hindsight".

a little help?
 

cortezzz

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2006
663
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hypothetical question

should the 9-11 hijackers have used DU armoured jets to fly into the world trade center buildings......
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Hey wanna see some DU

Thankyou,I try to be fair and impartial in my judgements, sometimes I think you're the only one here with goodsence and clear vision for the future and most of the past.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
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FiveParadox sighs.

Does anyone ever read posts by members that make you want to bash your head against a concrete barrier a few times, and then against paved road or something, just for good measure? To the members above who would suggest that the the World Trade Center towers, as opposed to the "innocent" buildings in the surrounding, were somehow more deserving of destruction and the extinguishing of innocent lives than others, then — ugh, never mind.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

fuzzylogix said:
Retired_Can_Soldier said:
I am definitely not a fan of DU. That is of course if I am sitting here behind my laptop banging keys.

Now, on the other hand, if I've got an armoured vehicle bearing down on me I might be a DU supporter at that point.

Just an honest answer.
M

Wow I'm STUNNED.

I guess what you mean is :
a) one can only be an ethical soldier if your weapons are bigger than theirs or
2) it is more important for an American soldier to survive than to worry about killing civilians after the war is over or
3) it doesnt really matter that the American soldiers in the area of use of DU are being exposed too.


As for using DU against armoured vehicles. Does that include the vehicles that are moving AWAY from you? i.e. retreating. As was the case in Kuwait along the Highway of Shame. The US strafed the retreating troops and vehicles with DU laden bombs. The line of burnt out vehicles sit there today, with bodies and stuff decaying in them, and the DU levels are excessively high and the US wont allow their troops in the area ( of course, maybe that is a ploy, maybe they just dont want anyone to see this.)

Hmmmmmmmmm How to respond. Okay here goes. As a citizen of this Country and a former soldier who has quite a bit of extended family still serving and possibly at risk of being exposed to DU I say it is a troublesome issue.

As too your other question about use of weaponry against the enemy. I'd do whateverit takes to defeat or kill the enemy and avoid being killed or having my men killed. Bullets or bayonets. Whatever is suitable for survival. See it's not a game and on the battlefield it is not about public opinion. It's about getting back home, about winning the battle and about looking out for your comrades.

I know this is contrary to the touchy feely approach of do gooders who always judge soldiers but are rarely found on the battlefield and my answer to that is tough.

So again, given the choice of using DU and saving the lives of my men. I come down on the side of DU. Unless of course I have a tactical nuke handy, then piss on the DU. JK

M
 

cortezzz

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2006
663
0
16
Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

FiveParadox said:
FiveParadox sighs.

Does anyone ever read posts by members that make you want to bash your head against a concrete barrier a few times, and then against paved road or something, just for good measure? To the members above who would suggest that the the World Trade Center towers, as opposed to the "innocent" buildings in the surrounding, were somehow more deserving of destruction and the extinguishing of innocent lives than others, then — ugh, never mind.

five parodox----

dont do it

dont bash your head against a wall

its not safe

unless of course

your head is first coated with DU
 

fuzzylogix

Council Member
Apr 7, 2006
1,204
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Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

Retired_Can_Soldier said:
It's about getting back home, about winning the battle and about looking out for your comrades.

Correct!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for being honest and clarifying for the forum the basic ideology of the soldiers in the trenches.

War is a Force That Gives us Meaning. Chris Hedges.
 

cortezzz

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2006
663
0
16
Re: RE: Hey wanna see some DU babies from Afghaistan

Retired_Can_Soldier said:
fuzzylogix said:
Retired_Can_Soldier said:
I am definitely not a fan of DU. That is of course if I am sitting here behind my laptop banging keys.

Now, on the other hand, if I've got an armoured vehicle bearing down on me I might be a DU supporter at that point.

Just an honest answer.
M

Wow I'm STUNNED.

I guess what you mean is :
a) one can only be an ethical soldier if your weapons are bigger than theirs or
2) it is more important for an American soldier to survive than to worry about killing civilians after the war is over or
3) it doesnt really matter that the American soldiers in the area of use of DU are being exposed too.


As for using DU against armoured vehicles. Does that include the vehicles that are moving AWAY from you? i.e. retreating. As was the case in Kuwait along the Highway of Shame. The US strafed the retreating troops and vehicles with DU laden bombs. The line of burnt out vehicles sit there today, with bodies and stuff decaying in them, and the DU levels are excessively high and the US wont allow their troops in the area ( of course, maybe that is a ploy, maybe they just dont want anyone to see this.)

Hmmmmmmmmm How to respond. Okay here goes. As a citizen of this Country and a former soldier who has quite a bit of extended family still serving and possibly at risk of being exposed to DU I say it is a troublesome issue.

As too your other question about use of weaponry against the enemy. I'd do whateverit takes to defeat or kill the enemy and avoid being killed or having my men killed. Bullets or bayonets. Whatever is suitable for survival. See it's not a game and on the battlefield it is not about public opinion. It's about getting back home, about winning the battle and about looking out for your comrades.

I know this is contrary to the touchy feely approach of do gooders who always judge soldiers but are rarely found on the battlefield and my answer to that is tough.

So again, given the choice of using DU and saving the lives of my men. I come down on the side of DU. Unless of course I have a tactical nuke handy, then piss on the DU. JK

M


your approach is VERY inefficient

if the idea is to survive so you can come home

well--

you might consider

not

going

in

first

place
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,412
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Alberta
Cortezz:your approach is VERY inefficient
if the idea is to survive so you can come home
well-- you might consider not going in first
place

I might not, but then that is best left to those you'd likely not find on a battlefield. I wish I could explain Cortezz, but we would just end up trading insults. You have your opinion....

Cheers
M[/b]
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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Depleted Uranium

Has a number of properties that make it an excellent armor buster. It is also cheap.

Amorphous tungsten alloy would work as well as DU, but it would be three or four times as expensive.

My question is; how much are we willing to pay for using non-toxic rounds? Maybe a better question is, why are we poisoning people with toxic, radioactive, material if we don't have to?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Hey wanna see some DU

Well Jaun I expect that you know the answer as well as I do, it's called capital efficiency, you can't possibly expect us to pay four times the cost of DU rounds for environmentally safe rounds. Since it's a capitalist world, we very much do have to use the cheaper stuff, we can't be conducting wars with poor economic returns.What would be the point? The people we are poisoning don't count, there are either low class western cannon foder or brown terrorist miscreants who can't understand the god given rights of the empire and won't give us thier resources at competative prices.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The AEA's calculation was made in a confidential memo to the privatized munitions company, Royal Ordnance, dated 30 April 1991. The high number of potential deaths was dismissed as "very far from realistic" by a British defense minister, Lord Gilbert. "Since the rounds were fired in the desert, many miles from the nearest village, it is highly unlikely that the local population would have been exposed to any significant amount of respirable oxide," he said. These remarks were made prior to the more recent invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq, where DU munitions were used on a larger scale in and near many of the most populated areas. If the amount of DU ordinance used in the first Gulf War was sufficient to cause 500,000 potential deaths, (had it been used near the populated areas), then what of the nearly six times that amount used in operation Iraqi Freedom, which was used in and near the major towns and cities? Extrapolating the U.K. AEA estimate with this amount gives a figure of potentially 3 million extra deaths from inhaling DU dust in Iraq alone, not including Afghanistan. This is about 11% of Iraq's total population of 27 million. Dan Bishop, Ph.d chemist for IDUST feels that this estimate may be low, if the long life of DU dust is considered. In Afghanistan, the concentration in some areas is greater than Iraq.

What can an otherwise healthy person expect when inhaling the deadly dust? Captain Terry Riordon was a member of the Canadian Armed Forces serving in Gulf War I. He passed away in April 1999 at age 45. Terry left Canada a very fit man who did cross-country skiing and ran in marathons. On his return only two months later he could barely walk.

He returned to Canada in February 1991 with documented loss of motor control, chronic fatigue, respiratory difficulties, chest pain, difficulty breathing, sleep problems, short-term memory loss, testicle pain, body pains, aching bones, diarrhea, and depression. After his death, depleted uranium contamination was discovered in his lungs and bones. For eight years he suffered his innumerable ailments and struggled with the military bureaucracy and the system to get proper diagnosis and treatment. He had arranged, upon his death, to bequeath his body to the UMRC. Through his gift, the UMRC was able to obtain conclusive evidence that inhaling fine particles of depleted uranium dust completely destroyed his heath. How many Terry Riordans are out there among the troops being exposed, not to mention Iraqi and Afghan civilians?

Inhaling the dust will not kill large numbers of Iraqi and Afghan civilians right away, any more than it did Captain Riordan. Rather, what we will see is vast numbers of people who are chronically and severely ill, having their life spans drastically shortened, many with multiple cancers.

Melissa Sterry, another sick veteran, served for six months at a supply base in Kuwait during the winter of 1991-92. Part of her job with the National Guard's Combat Equipment Company "A" was to clean out tanks and other armored vehicles that had been used during the war, preparing them for storage.

She said she swept out the armored vehicles, cleaning up dust, sand and debris, sometimes being ordered to help bury contaminated parts. In a telephone interview, she stated that after researching depleted uranium she chose not to take the military's test because she could not trust the results. It is alarming that Melissa was stationed in Kuwait, not Iraq. Cleaning out tanks with DU dust was enough to make her ill.