Harper will repeal current Income Tax Cuts

[Triple_R]

The 'tax cuts vs. paying down the debt' debate is a fair one, though I don't think the political will exists within the Canadian people to suffer through the necessary tax hikes/social spending cuts necessary to make substantial dents into the national debt. You put a party promising to eliminate the debt while using realistic figures up against a party promising to cut taxes and/or increase social spending and, sadly, the second party will win every time.

However, GST cuts vs. income tax cuts, is a debate with immediate political ramifications. The notion that income tax cuts favour the poor more than GST cuts do is surprising to me. There is, unfortunetly, thousands, if not millions, of Canadians living on welfare and/or Employment Insurance. Add to those people those who make a figure low enough to avoid any income taxation at all. This group of people would benefit little to nothing from an income tax cut. A GST cut, on the other hand, means that the money they already have will go farther.

My only concern with the GST cut is how it'll work in Atlantic Canada where there isn't a GST, per se... but rather a HST, which is a combination of the old Provincial Sales Tax with the GST. Would Harper cut the HST as well, should he lead the next federal government?

In any event, the Conservatives pledging to eliminte the most recent income tax cuts is shocking given their recent bump in the polls. It's like they're trying to kill their own momentum. While I appreciate their honesty, it is nonetheless the one serious mis-step in their campaign thus far.

 

[Jersay]

Yeah, I was looking at a poll. Because of that, the Liberals and Conservatives are tied.

 

[Triple_R]

Jersay - Agreed. I think that the Conservatives WERE doing a very good job of widdling away libertarians (fiscally conservative, culturally/socially liberal) support away from the Liberals. Their new stand on income tax hurts that. Harper, if he wants to get elected, needs to focus on fiscal issues, and come across as a staunch fiscal conservative, in the two upcoming debates (especially in the English debate).

He's gaining some traction by highlighting Liberal corruption, and wasteful spending. However, to fully benefit from that traction he needs to come off as a solid tax-cutter.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

my partisanship?

i would like to see how somebody who does not support the liberals or the conservatives is showing partisanship.

NDP supporters vote Liberal quite willingly. They will willingly throw away a vote and call it "strategy".

If Harper has this fiscal plan then why does he not show it? Simple request to Harper: Put Up or Shut Up.

He already stated that it will be coming out this week. Harper has been busy showing many planks, Martin has done nothing.

The reason the libs are not getting as hammered is because the libs do not plan on cutting services where Harper is on record as saying he favours such actions.

Proof? I have never heard him say anything about cutting services. You must be mistaking theft and corruption as some kind of public service.

The ball is in Harper's court to show fully and honestly his platform, but he does not. He would rather harp on about the sponsorship scandal to keep the eyes of of him, wouldn't he?

Actually it's only Duceppe that is harping about adscam. The NDP and the CPC have moved on to more recent Liberals scandals. Income trusts, Options Canada and whatever other scandal gets revealed this week and the week after.

I also find it comical that you would accuse the Conservatives of not being honest with their campaigning since it was the Liberals that promised to scrap the GST and in case you're too young to know this, this is the 5th (FIFTH) time the Liberals are promising a National Day Care program. This has been the same promise over and over again since 1993.

Yeah, I was looking at a poll. Because of that, the Liberals and Conservatives are tied

I'm not sure which poll you are referring too but every single poll shows the Conservatives ahead. The latest one today shows them 8 points ahead. 37% to 29%. The Conservatives are about 2 percentage points away from a majority.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...8_060108/20060108?s_name=election2006&no_ads=

I see no one has yet to attempt to answer my question no matter how many times I ask it.

How are the 32% of Canadians that pay no income tax going to benefit from the Liberals tax cut?

 

[the caracal kid]

1 - i am not an NDP supporter either.
2 - the liberals: i knew the gst would not be scrapped because i understood the economics behind the tax. Knowledge is power, not the election promises of politicians.
3- cutting services- now it is you with the short term memory. look back at the position of Harper since he started working in polics. He has been very consistant in his stance on minimizing government and cutting/privatizing services.
4 - well lets just see what Harper brings out that does not include massive DEBT (which is what neocon philosophy and Harper's policies so far point to)

 

[Breakthrough2006]

2 - the liberals: i knew the gst would not be scrapped because i understood the economics behind the tax. Knowledge is power, not the election promises of politicians.

So we can both agree that the Liberals have been lying to us all along.

3- cutting services- now it is you with the short term memory. look back at the position of Harper since he started working in polics. He has been very consistant in his stance on minimizing government and cutting/privatizing services.

Show me where Harper or the CPC have mentioned cutting public services. If you can't then you are simply stating your opinion and not fact.

4 - well lets just see what Harper brings out that does not include massive DEBT (which is what neocon philosophy and Harper's policies so far point to)

I see you believe everything the big red machine feeds you. You practically repeated Martins fearmongering propoganda from yesterday.

Still waiting for an answer to my question.

 

[the caracal kid]

"In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.

"We must aim to make [Canada] a lower tax jurisdiction than the United States."

- Stephen Harper, Vancouver Province, April 6th 2004.

"Withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan... Collect our own revenue from personal income tax... Resume provincial responsibility for health-care policy. If Ottawa objects to provincial policy, fight in the courts... [E]ach province should raise its own revenue for health... It is imperative to take the initiative, to build firewalls around Alberta... "

- Stephen Harper in an "Open letter to Ralph Klein," January 24th 2001.

"Whether Canada ends up with one national government or two governments or 10 governments, the Canadian people will require less government no matter what the constitutional status or arrangement of any future country may be."

- Stephen Harper in a 1994 National Citizens Coalition speech.

"Continental economic and security integration" with the U.S. as well as a "continental energy strategy" that should be broadened "to a range of other natural resources."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper.

"Stephen Harper not only opposes Kyoto, but he refutes the science. He’s back in the dinosaur era. Harper is just totally out of it."

- David Suzuki on Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper, 2003.

"What we clearly need is experimentation with market reforms and private delivery options [in health care]."

- Stephen Harper, then President of the NCC, 2001.



"It's past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act."

- Stephen Harper, then Vice-President of the National Citizens Coalition, 1997.

"We also support the exploration of alternative ways to deliver health care. Moving toward alternatives, including those provided by the private sector, is a natural development of our health care system."

- Stephen Harper, Toronto Star, October 2002.


care for more?

now as for the red machine, you are boring and predictable. I have held my current view on Harps for some time, and it is NOT based on the Liberal propaganda. It is based studying the facts, unbiasedly.

I admit i am now biased heavily against HARPER, but that is because study of the subject shows he is unfit for office.

PS: the answer to your question is in Harper's words! Fewer programs means individuals have to pay for more, negating any tax savings Harps is waving around to lure the votes of the il-informed. (the old "vote for me and save $300 on taxes" while omitting the "vote for me and your services will drop and you will be out $900 dollars in user fees")

 

[yballa09]

4 - well lets just see what Harper brings out that does not include massive DEBT (which is what neocon philosophy and Harper's policies so far point to)

http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/38243?PHPSESSID=faa0c1e165f292400c9a2e7bf64ba22c

Conservative fiscal plan fully costed, fully budgeted, fully balanced
08 January 2006
Spending and tax plan independently verified by the Conference Board of Canada

OTTAWA – The Conservative Party of Canada today released a letter from the Conference Board of Canada ( attached) showing that the Conservative platform is fully affordable in each year from 2005 through 2011.

“In summary,” wrote Paul Darby, Deputy Chief Economist of the CBoC, “we found that the Conservative Party’s economic platform is affordable in each fiscal year from 2005-2006 through 2010-2011. In each year there is enough fiscal room to pay down at least $3 billion a year in debt, as in the [government’s] fiscal plan.”

The Conference Board also found that there is substantial surplus in the Conservative fiscal plan: “Over the five-year forecast horizon to 2010-2011, the CBoC economic and fiscal outlook suggests that there remains $15.7 billion in unallocated fiscal room, over and above the annual debt payment, which provides further cushion to ensure that deficits do not occur due to adverse economic effects.”

The Conference Board was given access to the entire Conservative platform in order to conduct its analysis. The Conservative party will release its whole platform and supporting fiscal framework later this week.

“The Conservative plan includes balanced budgets, annual debt repayment, and a package of tax reductions far more generous than that offered by any other party,” said Monte Solberg, the Conservative Party’s Finance Critic.

If Harper has this fiscal plan then why does he not show it? Simple request to Harper: Put Up or Shut Up.

There you go, right upon your request (well, a little late).

 

[the caracal kid]

well, i will comment when Harper makes this public.

 

[yballa09]

fair enough. I read somewhere earlier today (already forgot) that this part of the platform will be fully introduced in details later on in the week, so we'll have to wait and see for the rest.

 

[FiveParadox]

Economic Details

I would also prefer to have the details be made public before I comment on the budgetary platform of the Hon. Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party of Canada.

I would like to see the package for myself, once released, before accepting the words of the Opposition Critic as sacrosanct, for the time being.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

As usual you have posted things that were said more than a decade ago and before you mention that he can't change, Martin himself was AGAINST SSM only 4 years ago. Not only that, he wasn't running for PM 12 years ago.

The rest made no reference of proof that he would cut social services. You are simply fishing.

Secondly, thanks for your non answer to the tax question. You refuse to admit anything that would give the slightest merit to Harper, not matter how small.

Judging from your responses, you are fully qualified to vote for anyone but Harper.

Have fun looking over at the new government from the opposite side of the floor.

 

[KanBob]

Actually, Harper can't repeal tax cuts that have never been passed in Parliament.

The liberals introduced them a few days before their defeat on a confidence motion.

Typically, Revenue Canada assumes that measures introduced in the house will become and act accordingly.

But the tax measures had only one reading. Unless of course, you think Tax measures can pass in a parliamentary system without requiring a vote.

Now, as for the comment on the GST.

It has been noted that 30% of Canadians do NOT pay any Income taxes whatsoever. However ALL Canadians do pay the GST (unless you happen to be lucky enough to not ever buy anything.)

So an Income Tax cut will only aid those who actually pay income taxes.

The GST reduction on the other hand, will benefit ALL Canadians.

 

[FiveParadox]

Disposable Income and G.S.T.

Unfortunately, in respect of the proposed cut to the Government Sales Tax, those who would be required to spend their funds within a "tight" budget to begin with would, in my opinion, experience less of a "savings" from this cut than would the rich, because there would be a negligible decrease in G.S.T. if one has very little disposable income to begin with.

 

[KanBob]

I don't disagree that the less money you spend, the less you save.

But that is the same with income taxes too. The less you earn, the less you pay.

It was Paul Martin himself who declared the GST a useless and regressive tax. He can't have it both ways.

And one shouldn't discount the savings, however meagre, for those who currently pay no income tax.

 

[FiveParadox]

Proposed Tax Cuts

What about the Provinces that have no Government Sales Tax?

Would a Conservative Government of Canada recognize the Harmonised Sales Tax as being an equivelant program, or would some of the Atlantic Provinces be ignored under this "promise?"

 

[KanBob]

I think the issue is pretty clear.

First of all, there are no provinces that have no GST. Even with a harmonized tax, the GST is a component and the value of that component will be reduced.

Why this spurious fear that the Atlantic Provinces would somehow be ignored? Is that a Canadian value that must be defended? (I admit, I hear so much about Canadian Values but I've never seen the list and I don't know which ones qualify). None of the provinces would be "ignored".

I realize the promise is about as clear as the 1993 Liberal promise to kill the GST, but it IS a Conservative promise, not a Liberal one and those tend to be more truthful.

 

[FiveParadox]

Interesting Assertion

The Conservative Party of Canada has no right to speak of "promises."

During the Thirty-eighth Parliament, the conduct of the Conservative Party of Canada was deplorable. The Tories denied quorum to Committees, to prevent work from being done; the Tories shut down the entire House of Commons for three days as a "protest", grinding the gears at Parliament Hill to a halt; the Tories attempted to filibuster the passage of several important pieces of legislation near the end of the session, and the Tories defeated several Liberal initiatives — and then accused the Liberal Party of having broken their promises to pass those initiatives. How deceptive!

 

[KanBob]

No right to speak of promises eh?

I'll take your word for it. What rights do they have then, in this Liberal Canada? Do they at least have minority rights?

But shutting down the house for three days. Wow. And filibuster too. I wonder who they learned that trick from.

I noticed you didn't mention that the Liberals removed opposition days in the fall session and cancelled some in the spring. I guess that was their right.

What about that GST promise? Or don't promises from the "disgraceful period" count?

Speaking of deceptive, I suppose laundering taxpayer money through ad agencies to support election efforts isn't deceptive? Or is it? Maybe buying elections in Canada is okay if Liberals do it.

 

[FiveParadox]

The Government of Canada does not have the right to cancel Opposition days; it can only delay them. If it were to cancel them, then it would, under Canadian convention and our system of governance, effectively "cancel" their access to the Consolidated Revenue Fund of Canada (this is due to the responsible government principle of "supply").

As for "laundering taxpayers' money," if people are going to argue that the Hon. Stephen Harper is not the same person that he was years ago, when he might dare I say neoconservative speeches in Alberta, then I would argue that the Liberal Party of Canada can change.

The Government of the Rt. Hon. Jean Chrétien is not the same as the current Government, under the Rt. Hon. Paul Martin — such is evident through the exoneration of he entire present Government by the Hon. Justice Gomery.