Harper Tough on Crime

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Independent Palestine
A Conservative government would undertake a sweeping series of reforms aimed at toughening Canada's justice system, starting with imposition of mandatory minimum prison terms of between five and 10 years for people convicted of major firearms offences, Stephen Harper said today.

"We should be able to walk freely on our streets," he said, according to a news release on the Conservative party Web site.

"We should feel safe in our neighbourhoods. We should live without fear in our cities.

"We should not view these as luxuries, but our rights as Canadians -- as fundamental characteristics of the Canadian way of life, on which we will not compromise."

The five-year, $500-million initiative also proposes to end house arrest -- or conditional sentences -- for violent crimes, sexual offences, weapons crimes, and impaired driving causing death, among other things.

He said a Conservative government would also end statutory release, which allows prisoners to be granted parole after serving two-thirds of their sentence. In its place, offenders would be required to earn their parole through good behaviour or rehabilitaion.

The news release said the key points of the Tory plan are:

Mandatory minimum prison sentences of five or 10 years for major firearms offences, including five years for possession of a loaded restricted or prohibited weapon such as a handgun, and an end to revolving door bail and parole policies.
Filling more than 1,000 unfilled RCMP positions and working with provinces and municipalities to hire at least 2,500 more police officers across the country.
Measures to crack down on firearms smuggling and toughen security at Canada's border crossings, including giving our customs agents the support and equipment they need to do their job.
Investing $50 million over five years in programs to promote crime prevention and assist youth at risk.
"The revolving door of criminal justice of this current government bears significant responsibility for the tide of gun, drug and gang crime plaguing our cities," Mr. Harper said as he campaigned at the Eaton Centre in downtown Toronto, just metres from where a 15-year-old girl was killed by gunfire on Boxing Day.

"Some suggested immediately that the Boxing Day shooters themselves were the victims of social exclusion, even as they were last seen leaving the scene in a BMW," Mr. Harper said.

However, while special efforts must be made to help at-risk youth, "social exclusion does not excuse turning Yonge Street into a shooting gallery," he said.

Yesterday, one of the men accused in connection with the shooting made an appearance in a Toronto court.

Andre Thompson, 20, appeared briefly at Old City Hall. His bail hearing was adjourned until Jan. 12.

Afterward, his lawyer, Robert Chartier, spoke to the news media.

"It's too early to talk about this case and the details of the case. However, Mr. Thompson does want everyone to know that he does profess his innocence and he's anxious to have this matter go to trial," Mr. Chartier said.

Mr. Thompson and a 17-year-old face seven gun-related charges. They were arrested together at Castle Frank subway station a short time after two groups fired at one another on Yonge Street on Boxing Day, killing 15-year-old Jane Creba and wounding six others.

Neither man has been charged with her killing. Police are still awaiting results of forensic tests that will determine whether the bullet that killed Ms. Creba came from a 9 mm handgun seized shortly after the shooting.

The Canadian Professional Police Association embraced almost all of the Tory platform today, saying it responds to pleas police have been making for years. But the non-partisan group stopped short of a political endorsement.

Tony Cannavino, president of the police association, said tougher sentences for violent criminals, restrictions on bail and stricter parole rules will be welcomed by the 54,000 rank-and-file cops he represents.

"The message that they are going to be sending is: 'The party's over'," he said.

The father of one of four RCMP officers shot and killed in Mayerthorpe, Alta., last spring was at Harper's announcement today and said he too supports the plan.

"Changes have to take place," said Don Schiemann, a Lutheran minister, whose son Peter was among the victims.

He described the proposals as a "very, very effective start," but would like to see them go further, including improved sentencing guidelines for judges.

The Globe and Mail seems to forget to aid that Harper wants to increase the age of consent, but try 14 year old children as adults. A very American thing to do.
 

Texas1

Electoral Member
Sep 23, 2005
112
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The Globe and Mail seems to forget to aid that Harper wants to increase the age of consent, but try 14 year old children as adults. A very American thing to do.

Was that in the source ? :roll:
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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How orginal. Very American. Why don't we make Canada the 51 state now. BTW we can see how well these tactics have worked in the USA.

However if Harper was more of a moderate he could see a blending of Left and Right ideology might work. Social programs mixed in with criminal reform and str the police forces with people from the community who represent the community.

thats my blurb
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
excellent ideas the CPC are the best party in terms of criminal justice and cutting down on crime!

He said a Conservative government would also end statutory release, which allows prisoners to be granted parole after serving two-thirds of their sentence. In its place, offenders would be required to earn their parole through good behaviour or rehabilitaion.

..pretty logical if you ask me!

Mandatory minimum prison sentences of five or 10 years for major firearms offences, including five years for possession of a loaded restricted or prohibited weapon such as a handgun, and an end to revolving door bail and parole policies.

.....good idea, raising the minimum instead of the maximum would work because the criminals never get the maximum. We need to show that if you are illegally and stupidly firing guns around our schools and nieghbourhoods, you are going straight to jail! No more letting thugs back onto the street!

Measures to crack down on firearms smuggling and toughen security at Canada's border crossings, including giving our customs agents the support and equipment they need to do their job.

...right on target, we need to make sure we stop the illegal gun flow into this country, not go after law abiding gun owners. The Liberals have made cuts in border policing and as a result there are approx 200 unguarded crossings! The Liberals also dont want to give our border guards firearms to protect themselves and our border.....looks like the Conservatives aern't as foolish.

However, while special efforts must be made to help at-risk youth, "social exclusion does not excuse turning Yonge Street into a shooting gallery," he said.

yep...we need to help these youth, but there is no excuse for them opening fire and killing innocent people.




....looks like the Conservative Party has the best tactics to fight crime so far...which is why they will be getting my support.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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www.kdm.ca
Finder said:
How orginal. Very American. Why don't we make Canada the 51 state now. BTW we can see how well these tactics have worked in the USA.

However if Harper was more of a moderate he could see a blending of Left and Right ideology might work. Social programs mixed in with criminal reform and str the police forces with people from the community who represent the community.

thats my blurb

i concur, finder.

the solution lies in social programs and social reform. Tough sentencing is not the solution to the problems. It is a reactionary approach. As we have seen in the US, all it does in result in an increase in prison populations.

This is just another example of how Harper swings and misses. If only this were like baseball. Harper has long surpassed his three strikes so we would be rid of him!
 

Texas1

Electoral Member
Sep 23, 2005
112
0
16
the caracal kid said:
Finder said:
How orginal. Very American. Why don't we make Canada the 51 state now. BTW we can see how well these tactics have worked in the USA.

However if Harper was more of a moderate he could see a blending of Left and Right ideology might work. Social programs mixed in with criminal reform and str the police forces with people from the community who represent the community.

thats my blurb

i concur, finder.

the solution lies in social programs and social reform. Tough sentencing is not the solution to the problems. It is a reactionary approach. As we have seen in the US, all it does in result in an increase in prison populations.

This is just another example of how Harper swings and misses. If only this were like baseball. Harper has long surpassed his three strikes so we would be rid of him!

Too bad it's not baseball. His plan is going to work, just wait and see.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
actaully if you look at the US their prison population has doubled since the 1990's, however we see that crime rates and specifically homicide rates have been substantially falling. The US has gone from around 30 000 murders a year in the 90s, to around 15 000 currently. This is a much larger drop (percentage wise) than Canada has seen during this period.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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canada has enjoyed lower crime rates than the US without harsh penalties.

It is a reflection of the society more than anything else. If we want less crime, we solve problems at the source before they lead to crime, not after. Proactive is better then reactive.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
no I am not saying that Canada follow the US on crime and justice issues......but you can't honestly disagree with the Conservatives idea to raise minimum sentences, make people earn their parole, stop the revolving door we call bail.

The liberals cut money for border security...we need to proctect our 200 unguarded border crossings to help stop illegal gun flow.....you don't disagree with this do you?
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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Raising sentences does not solve problems (in the majority of cases). How many people are actually calculating how many years sentence is worth the act?

We need to do everything to enable people to learn form their actions and become better for it. True punishment only comes from within. There is of course a strange irony in the entire "justice" system.

Beef up the crossings and the contraban will just cross elsewhere - path of least resistance. Again, once there is demand for illegal guns, trying to stop the guns at the border is ineffectual and "two moves too late". I do disagree with arming the border guards. A society that is so reactionary becomes what it desires least. A society of peaceful people needs not guns at the doorsteps to its land.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
I am glad that you are not in charge of protecting our country. Whats next, arm police officers with play guns? I know you only mean the best but the world works in a different way.....heavier punishment and reaching out to help the people that need it... is a start, not letting them loose back onto our streets would be a good idea too...hate to tell you this but you could have all the social programes you need but people would still be killing each other. Just look at Alberta every single person could have a job here in Calgary (expect people with mental illness and other issues), but people still kill each other so we need to put these bastards away to protect society and our families.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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it is in creating an artificial separation that we begin the downward spiral.

we need to recognize human nature, and allow for expression of it within limits that do not deprive others of life or limb. However, when somebody makes a mistake, the true punishment comes from them recognizing and making restitution for it in a socially positive way. Separation fails because it moves a person to a separate system that furthers exactly what we wish to reduce.

I am not saying "let them loose in the streets". I am saying we need to create programs that allow a person and the victims to grow from the experience.

We can not remove guns from the police given that guns are in the hands the police must face in the business of maintaining peace. Border crossing guards are a different matter though. If they are "militia", the people they want to really stop would just go cross into the country in the middle of a baren field, or by boat. We have a large border that can not be secured. The only people that would see guns are those that have no need to see them. What good does that do?
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
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16
Calgary, AB
Among his proposals:

-Mandatory minimum sentences - five to 10 years for gun crimes.

-Longer sentences for violent crime, or for those who offend while on parole.

-An end to house arrest sentences for serious offences.

-An end to statutory release, which frees convicts after they serve two-thirds of their sentences.

-An end to the so-called faint hope clause, which allows murderers to ask a jury after 15 years for early parole eligibility.

-Adult sentences for violent juveniles over age 14.

-No votes for federal inmates.

-Guns for border guards.

-More cops on the streets, including 1,000 more Mounties and 2,500 municipal and provincial officers.

-$100 million a year for criminal justice programs, including youth projects to keep kids from crime.

-No more registry for rifles and shotguns.

-More support for victims of crime.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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of those twelve, i can agree on 2 in priniciple (further agreement would depend on actual details).

a society that can not show compassion for those who are most opposite the "desired" is a society that is barren of any real compassion.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Now that is a plan!
If someone kills another human in 1st degree they should spend the rest of their natural life behind bars....not get parole after 15 years...down with the faint hope clause!!! I also like the $100 million for youth crime prevention....and more support for the victims of crime. I think our society has forgot about the victim and spent too much time on the criminal. One only need to look at the Homolka case where she is free after having slaughtered 3 little girls...the dead and the family have no justice.....even more insane is that there are no restrictions on her..so she can go to our childrens schools and we cant do anything....

......a reform on criminal justice is long needed...bless Steven Harper for offering an alternative.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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justice? this justice you speak of is retribution, revenge, a measure of a small mind (not you personally, but philosophically speaking).

the criminals are victims. one does not desire as a child in a functional society to grow up and kill their neighbours for material goods (for an example). How about we do more to ensure there is a positive future for all the people, rather than just the few that "claw" their way to the top? The difference between those that have and those that commit crime out of despiration is only in the social condoning of one methodology over another.

Social animalism makes everybody a victim. It is long past time for people to grow beyond the pettiness of revenge and to seek to enlightenment for all.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Characal Kid while you heart is in the right place, you do not share the view of a most Canadians....we need to help our desperate, but being soft on criminals has led us to where we are right now.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Harper Tough on Crime

the caracal kid said:
justice? this justice you speak of is retribution, revenge, a measure of a small mind (not you personally, but philosophically speaking).

the criminals are victims. one does not desire as a child in a functional society to grow up and kill their neighbours for material goods (for an example). How about we do more to ensure there is a positive future for all the people, rather than just the few that "claw" their way to the top? The difference between those that have and those that commit crime out of despiration is only in the social condoning of one methodology over another.

Social animalism makes everybody a victim. It is long past time for people to grow beyond the pettiness of revenge and to seek to enlightenment for all.

I'm sorry, CK, but I've played on both sides of this fence, and your middle paragraph is simply ridiculous.

Some criminals are criminals because of greed, lust, a sociopathic inability to care about another's pain or loss, or even a desire to cause pain for personal pleasure. Most criminals are so because the come to admire the criminal culture for the adventure, and the wealth it gives them. Some just fall into bad company.

But they all have one thing in common.

They are responsible for their own actions, and they MUST be punished for those actions.

Intervention is wonderful, especially if it can be done early.

I'm all for education and treatment inside prisons to try and break the cycle of violence and crime.

BUT.....the criminals need to be INSIDE the prisons to make the point. It is a carrot and stick thing. Lately we've been sugaring the carrot, and forgetting the stick.