Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

[Jay]

The Military has every right to exist and be under federal jurisdiction. Taking care of the military is something the Feds are supposed to be doing, and they do a shit job of it because they seem too be caught up in a love affair of stealing provincial jurisdiction. The national day care BS is a fine example of that Liberal mentality.

 

[BitWhys]

You say its about choice. If that's the case I want the right to choose who fights for me. Either choice(pwb) is a deciding priniciple or it isn't.

pick a horse

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

Food is important...so is housing. I need a car too and my dog has a vet appointment.

True, but you knew the government wasn't going to pay for that in the beginning didn't you? Do you really think your tax dollars will decrease if the government got out of health care?

 

[tracy]

It's interesting your doc says that Jay. I wonder what he/she is still doing in Canada if that's the case.

 

[#juan]

I have told this story before

and some here might recognise it. My family immigrated from the states in the nineteen twenties. I was born in Canada. A few years ago I had a sister and brother in law who lived in Snohomish in Washington state. My brother in law was a contractor and was well off by any standard. They had a good retirement nest egg and a respectable income from rental properties they owned.

They were just a couple years shy of retirement when my sisters health began to fail. She had a couple heart attacks and by-pass surgery. The cost was horrendous. At this point I will tell you that they were paying what I thought was a terrible price for health insurance. My sister's health deteriorated to the point where she had to be in hospital. By this time they had sold one of their rental properties and mortgaged the other.

Meanwhile various specialists and the hospital costs were eating their income and their savings. My brother in law needed an operation on his legs because of varicose veins. He put it off as long as he could but finally he finally had the operation and he spent a month in the hospital. His operation, while ungodly expensive, still left him a near cripple. He was having a hard time traveling to the hospital to see his wife. One day he had a massive heart attack and he lived only another three weeks before he died.

My sister lived on in a nursing home but she had to go home because she could no longer afford the costs. She lived only another two weeks at home. I think she couldn't stand the idea of being broke. This is the kind of health care system the right wingers on these forums want us to have.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

Food is important...so is housing. I need a car too and my dog has a vet appointment.

True, but you knew the government wasn't going to pay for that in the beginning didn't you? Do you really think your tax dollars will decrease if the government got out of health care?

Yes and Yes.

I also know that health care in Canada is going to change because they can't continue to pull it off anymore. They can't manage it correctly and they the Supream Court said they can't continue to offer shitty service and not allow private care, so what is the government going to do raise taxes?

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

It's interesting your doc says that Jay. I wonder what he/she is still doing in Canada if that's the case.

Why would you say that?

 

[Jay]

This is the kind of health care system the right wingers on these forums want us to have.

When you monger fear do do you have to submit GST and PST on it?

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

It's interesting your doc says that Jay. I wonder what he/she is still doing in Canada if that's the case.

Why would you say that?

It just surprises me that someone would stay working somewhere if they feel it's inferior. I couldn't go to work everyday knowing I wasn't providing my patients with the care I felt they deserved. I've been there and didn't last.

 

[Jay]

He is talking from a national perspective and if he left to chase American dreams of better service and more money we would be short one more doctor....what can I say?

 

[#juan]

Jay wrote:

When you monger fear do do you have to submit GST and PST on it?

For your information Jay, that was a true story about two members of my family. Their story is important to me.

What is also important to me is your increasing lack of respect for any poster who doesn't agree with you. I think you had better think about the direction you are taking.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

Food is important...so is housing. I need a car too and my dog has a vet appointment.

True, but you knew the government wasn't going to pay for that in the beginning didn't you? Do you really think your tax dollars will decrease if the government got out of health care?

Yes and Yes.

I also know that health care in Canada is going to change because they can't continue to pull it off anymore. They can't manage it correctly and they the Supream Court said they can't continue to offer shitty service and not allow private care, so what is the government going to do raise taxes?

You must trust the government more than me. I remember the promises that the toll on the Coquihalla would only be in place until it paid for the contruction... when that happened the toll was suddenly there to pay for maintenance.

You will never see the government give you back any money for healthcare because there will ALWAYS be people who can't afford to pay for it privately. They aren't necessarily poor either, I doubt you could afford to pay for a long hospitalization if your insurance wouldn't simply because it is so expensive. My little day surgery will cost about 15-20K (I only have to pay about 3K fortunately, blue cross will pick up the rest). We routinely have infants that go over their one million dollar cap in a few months. We have medical and medicaid down here and lots of "charity care" meaning they don't get medical or medicaid but still don't pay their bills, so the hospital just writes it off. Who do you think pays for that in the end? Tax payers, of course. I really don't mind. I'd rather pay for my babies care here than pay for a lot of other things the government chooses to spend on. If they can afford hundreds of billions in Iraq, I don't see how they could deny care to their own citizens. I would hope that some Canadians feel the same way. The most important things the provincial governments do is provide health care and education IMO.

Really, if privatization had ever been shown to be more efficient than public systems for health care delivery I would feel differently. The simple fact is they haven't. The US spends more per capita on health care than Canadians do. Privatizing isn't going to save Canadians money.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

He is talking from a national perspective and if he left to chase American dreams of better service and more money we would be short one more doctor....what can I say?

From a national perspective? I don't know what that means really. Our outcomes in patient care are comparable. We do better in some areas than the US, the US does better in some areas than Canada. I'd love to see less rhetoric about taxes, socialism, capitalism, politics and money and more sharing of what works well for patient care so we could learn from eachother. There are some things I would LOVE to see Canada do that the US does and vice versa. I won't hold my breath though...

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper concerned over

Worsening the burden on the elderly was the trend reported February 2005 study for the medical policy journal Health Affairs. Between 1981 and 2001 medical related bankruptcies increased by 2,200 percent, a spike that far exceeds the 360 percent growth in overall personal bank ruptcies during the same period. Medical related debt had become the second leading cause of personal bankruptcy, partly because of the widening lack of health insurance (with the number of uninsured rising to 45 million). One of the studys authors, Harvard Law School professor Elizabeth Warren, observed that "the people we found to be most profoundly affected are not some distant underclass. They're the very heart of the middle class. These are educated Americans with decent jobs homes and families. But one stumble, and they end up in complete financial collapse, wiped out by medical bills.

from American Theocracy

This is class betrayal, those who supported the unregulated capitalist free market are now being feed into the machine they created.

 

[Jay]

Jay wrote:

When you monger fear do do you have to submit GST and PST on it?

For your information Jay, that was a true story about two members of my family. Their story is important to me.

What is also important to me is your increasing lack of respect for any poster who doesn't agree with you. I think you had better think about the direction you are taking.

Thats fine Jaun, I'm sure the story is important to you, but you can't seriously expect to suggest that right wingers on this board want a failing system without some reprisal, we are going to fix the system, and since I seem to be the only right winger defending my position, I didn’t want to be your fall guy for fear mongering. It isn’t personal in anyway.


For all the BS you let pass by Dark Beaver, Cortez and Aeon, I didn't think you were watching....my apologies and I will tone it down. I appreciate your subtle warning.

 

[Jay]

I appreciate the debate all, really I do, but I fear I may have been a bit over the top maybe? I will visit this thread again on Monday.

Still like to slam Jay around the ice rink though? Lets take it over to the CBC thread.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Harper concerned over Alta. health care reforms

If it isn't administrated properly that could have an effect on every health care persons wages.

Oh ya I forgot to mention the transfers are going too....

Socialists making 75k a year have no business demanding their healthcare for free. It just shows the true nature of socialists.

pound for pound Canada's administration is 4 times more efficient than the private sector to the south. there's always efficiencies to be found but I'm not going to support a plank that's nothing more than an empty promise to squeeze blood from a stone.

I would like to hear more about private versus public efficientcys, for thirty years now I can remember hearing from the corporate world how much more efficient they were than public management and I never believed it was true,in fact I thought it was total bullshit and I suspect there is a lot of proof out there to support that idea.

 

[darkbeaver]

Jay wrote:

When you monger fear do do you have to submit GST and PST on it?

For your information Jay, that was a true story about two members of my family. Their story is important to me.

What is also important to me is your increasing lack of respect for any poster who doesn't agree with you. I think you had better think about the direction you are taking.

Thats fine Jaun, I'm sure the story is important to you, but you can't seriously expect to suggest that right wingers on this board want a failing system without some reprisal, we are going to fix the system, and since I seem to be the only right winger defending my position, I didn’t want to be your fall guy for fear mongering. It isn’t personal in anyway.


For all the BS you let pass by Dark Beaver, Cortez and Aeon, I didn't think you were watching....my apologies and I will tone it down. I appreciate your subtle warning.

Sharp shrill condemnation from the ultra rightwing and mention in the dispatch with comrades Cortez and Aeon have solidified my belief in the choice of direction in my life, thankyou Jay, you are perhaps one of the best people the left has working to further the cause, and we are all happy to see you continue our good work.

 

[sanch]

I am a supporter of free enterprise to a point. Essential services such as education, health care and taking care of children and the elderly should be left to the public sector. It’s madness to subject human lives to the capriciousness and profiteering of the market. Private companies are not in the game to improve services at the expense of profits.

#juan’s story is more typical than one might think. It’s very sad when these things happen.

Canada needs to focus on the delivery of healthcare and trade in the donkeys it is currently using for sleep supersonic engines. To make the system sustainable the administrative overhead needs to be slashed. The system is inefficient because people made it inefficient.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper concerned over

It's so sad it's a crime, against humanity, corporate criminal neglect, the machine dosn't care about people, it's only interested in money. There isn't even column on the spreadsheets for people is there?