Harper Calls in Troops

[Jersay]

Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...227.wharparm1227/BNStory/specialDecision2006/

Courtenay, B.C. — Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says major cities across the country should be given a regular army presence by creating territorial defence units to help deal with emergencies in urban areas.

At a campaign stop Tuesday on Vancouver Island, Mr. Harper said such units would be composed of 100 regular troops and 400 or more reservists if the Tories win the Jan. 23 federal election.

A large number of our cities have no military presence,” he said after announcing plans to beef up the military's capabilities in the West.

Vancouver, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, the Toronto area and other major metropolitan areas would be in line for territorial defence units whose troops would be available to help with emergencies and deal with conflict overseas, Mr. Harper said.

“This is a full military presence,” he added. “Obviously we would anticipate that its domestic need would be in case of disaster ... but obviously they would be military forces that could be forward deployed in the event of more serious military conflict elsewhere.”

The announcement was part of a promise to restore the military's presence in B.C. and across Western Canada. Since CFB Chilliwack was closed in the mid-1990s, Mr. Harper noted that B.C. hasn't had any army units on its soil.

“British Columbia is now the only region of the country without a regular army presence,” he said, promising a rapid reaction battalion of 650 troops to be stationed at nearby CFB Comox.

Mr. Harper tied the boost in military spending in the West to protecting Canada's sovereignty, as he recently did in promising icebreakers to help surveillance of Arctic waters.

“Canada's West Coast is vital to our national sovereignty,” he said. “ British Columbia is our window on Asia and the Pacific. Our Pacific waters are home to vital trade routes, fishing grounds and resource wealth.”

In addition to stationing a battalion at Comox, Mr. Harper said the Conservatives would:

— Increase Pacific navy personnel by about 500 regulars.

— Buy a new transport ship.

— Upgrade existing frigates and submarines.

— Embark on a program to replace Canada's destroyers and frigates.

— Boost the air force's surveillance capability by purchasing unmanned aerial vehicles, as well as upgrading existing Aurora surveillance aircraft.

Mr. Harper has promised to increase defence spending by $5.3-billion more than is currently planned to be spent from 2006-2011.

 

[Finder]

For a Conservative, Harper is most likely the worst fascal spender out of all the parties. Lower Taxes, cut social programs, yet spend more on things which don't help the average Canadian. Yeah, if you want to have fiscal government don't vote for Harper.... I think the conservatives best bet for a fiscal conservative is Harris of the Green party. He's pretty right wing but doesn't have the nut bar idea's.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The spending is mostly military, Finder. Part of Harper's plan to have Canadians act as cannon fodder in American militry adverturism.

Obviously we would anticipate that its domestic need would be in case of disaster ... but obviously they would be military forces that could be forward deployed in the event of more serious military conflict elsewhere.

In other words, if these troops would have existed and if Harper would have been PM we would be neck deep in the Iraq quagmire right now. Harper wasn't PM though, so now he wants a military build-up for the next time the USA decides to invade a country for oil.

Harper isn't interested in the UN or peacekeeping, he's interested in being a mini-me of George Bush.

 

[Nosferax]

The spending is mostly military, Finder. Part of Harper's plan to have Canadians act as cannon fodder in American militry adverturism.

Obviously we would anticipate that its domestic need would be in case of disaster ... but obviously they would be military forces that could be forward deployed in the event of more serious military conflict elsewhere.

In other words, if these troops would have existed and if Harper would have been PM we would be neck deep in the Iraq quagmire right now. Harper wasn't PM though, so now he wants a military build-up for the next time the USA decides to invade a country for oil.

Harper isn't interested in the UN or peacekeeping, he's interested in being a mini-me of George Bush.

But you also forget that the military industry is an heavy industry with a need for lower skilled/industrial manpower. Think about the naval industry. We have a shortage of job in that domain. Service and technology job are great but not all people can work in those. When I was younger I used to work for Vickers shipyard in Montreal. We used to repair the navy ship. It closed in the 80's.

And do you really think that if the US REALLY put pressure on any canadian government we would be in a position to refuse considering that most of our money comes from dealing with our southern neighbour... All they did is ask and put on a show of being disapointed but they didn't really put pressure.

Every country on this planet have an army and every country spends money on armament. Military is good business, maybe not ethical but ethics doesn't put bread on the table. Eck, even Lichtenstein has an army.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper Calls in Troop

You could be building boats for peacekeeping though, Nosferax. There's still a need...just not for what Harper wants.

 

[Nosferax]

Re: RE: Harper Calls in Troop

You could be building boats for peacekeeping though, Nosferax. There's still a need...just not for what Harper wants.

Peacekeeping doesn't really work if the two parties don't want you there. You see the thing is to be effective as a "peacekeeper" you have to be bigger and more equiped than the 2 parties you are trying to stop doing war on each other. That also mean you are ready to accept that a bigger and better equiped armed force are gonna come an mingle in your internal problem. I don't know any country that would accept that. Also to control that force you need a body of person (a form of government) to control and dispatch it. That bring us to a form of "global" entity. Such entity would have to be way above all our petty scheme and power strugle (human nature) and also above any form of corruption (you don't want your enemy buying them off). The UN sadly isn't up to the task. As a matter of fact any type of organisation that has to debate thing in commitees can't be in control of such an entity.

So the peacekeeper will always be a small army mostly composed of light troop and police officer and their job is to mediate between two willing party. As such they don't need ship, tank or jet fighter. All they need is an airline ticket and a few jeep and truck.

Most of the heavy action the peacekeeper did, were not per say peacekeeping mission (kossovo...) but in fact military intervention form different volontary nation (and not necessaraly a united command) under the umbrella of a UN diplomatic mission. But keep in mind that the command of those troop were still in the hand of the country where they originated and not in the hand of some bureaucratic technocrat in the UN.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper Calls in Troop

You still need to get troops and equipment to places...peacekeeping or not. We should have a bigger military to do that. It should be augmented by a civilian peace corps for work in non-war areas so we aren't sending peacekeepers to do civilian work.

Peacekeeping does work though. More than that, it's in greater call all of the time. Many conflicts have ended in the past few years (largely through quiet diplomacy at the UN) and they all require people. Quite a few more will be ending in the next few years.

 

[Suzique39]

The military he wants to increase will be sent to Iraq. He's already said before that we should have been with the states in Iraq. Is that really how we want to kill off our younger generation? To finance that Harper wishes to cut social spending, meaning so-long universal medical care, hello AMA. The AMA is dying to get their greedy mitts on our medical care, and with NAFTA once in always in. Scary isn't it?

 

[Nosferax]

Re: RE: Harper Calls in Troop

You still need to get troops and equipment to places...peacekeeping or not. We should have a bigger military to do that. It should be augmented by a civilian peace corps for work in non-war areas so we aren't sending peacekeepers to do civilian work.

Peacekeeping does work though. More than that, it's in greater call all of the time. Many conflicts have ended in the past few years (largely through quiet diplomacy at the UN) and they all require people. Quite a few more will be ending in the next few years.

Could you please specify a few place where peacekeeping really worked? Cyprus... They are just waiting for them to leave to start shooting at each other again (they nearly did in 2001-2003). Ethiopia... Not really either, the only thing that brought a cease fire was that the rebel forces were broke (as in no cash) and a total lack of interest from external forces since #1 the communist block doesn't exist anymore to support the rebs and #2 Nobody care... Rwanda... I made the point about our own scheming and power strugle (also known as human nature). Kossovo... Not really a peacekeeper mission... Haiti... You can't call that a success... People are still dying, there isn't even a semblance of order in the country, gangs control the street (and they are better armed an train than the peacekeeper).

I think you are mixing peacekeeping mission and humanitary mission... Those had more success and it's a perfect role for a comitee run organisation.

As for ship to transport the troop and material for peacekeeping mission and humanitarian mission they already have those. It's called the private sector. The UN has money and they can pay to have there stuff transported. In case of humanitarian help, most of the time they even do it for free or at cost.

 

[Nosferax]

Re: RE: Harper Calls in Troops

The military he wants to increase will be sent to Iraq. He's already said before that we should have been with the states in Iraq. Is that really how we want to kill off our younger generation? To finance that Harper wishes to cut social spending, meaning so-long universal medical care, hello AMA. The AMA is dying to get their greedy mitts on our medical care, and with NAFTA once in always in. Scary isn't it?

I don't want to sound rude or anything but name one politician who doesn't want to cut spending somewhere... Ok there is the NPD but then again they don't seem to be living in a world where stuff cost something... They promise a lot of thing but are always a bit foggy on how they are (or we are) gonna pay for it...

 

[Suzique39]

Re: RE: Harper Calls in Troops

I don't want to sound rude or anything but name one politician who doesn't want to cut spending somewhere... Ok there is the NPD but then again they don't seem to be living in a world where stuff cost something... They promise a lot of thing but are always a bit foggy on how they are (or we are) gonna pay for it...

Where is Harper going to get the Billions he wants to spend on the military just to appease the US? I'd rather see our taxes go to our medical care rather than killing our young people in a war that is nothing more than a quagmire, and not of our making or any of our business.

 

[Nosferax]

Re: RE: Harper Calls in Troops

I don't want to sound rude or anything but name one politician who doesn't want to cut spending somewhere... Ok there is the NPD but then again they don't seem to be living in a world where stuff cost something... They promise a lot of thing but are always a bit foggy on how they are (or we are) gonna pay for it...

Where is Harper going to get the Billions he wants to spend on the military just to appease the US? I'd rather see our taxes go to our medical care rather than killing our young people in a war that is nothing more than a quagmire, and not of our making or any of our business.

Well let see, if the government restart the military industry to provide the new stuff we need for our troop, this will in turn generate employment which will in turn generate revenue which will be taxed... You see where this is going. Also, a shipward can be used to build and refit the canadian navy, but it can also be used to repair and build other type of ship and heavy metal work... Wich also generate revenue... And we can also sell to other country... As for spending more in medical care, how about managing what they got more efficiently... For G-d sake, a surgeon in Quebec can't work 5 days per week... He has to limit himself to 3 days because the ramq won't pay him the other 2! That's why they wan't a private system where they could work the other 2 for those who have the money to pay and a such free up the public system. We've been investing more and more money in this sytem these past year and did it do anything for the waiting list... No! And more doctor and nurses won't magicaly apears because you put more money in the system, they have to be formed and they have to want to work here...

 

[Jersay]

I am apart of the Canadian Military, and I am looking forward to becoming either a UN peacekeeper or a UNICEF worker.

The UN does work,

East Timor

El Salvador

Guatemala

just for examples.

Also, we already have troops stationed in cities. We have reserve and regular forces in Nanaimo, Oshawa, Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, and Halifax. They are usually an 'administrative' group of people but they are still and there are armaments that are inside the armouries already in the cities.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I am apart of the Canadian Military, and I am looking forward to becoming either a UN peacekeeper or a UNICEF worker.

Do you find that most people simply have no clue what the UN does, Jersay? I notice that those most prone to rattling off what they perceive as failures of the UN as proof that UN doesn't work really have no idea what the UN does.

The other day one of them told me that UNICEF and the WHO were both more effective than the UN. He, of course, had no idea that both are part of the UN.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I am apart of the Canadian Military, and I am looking forward to becoming either a UN peacekeeper or a UNICEF worker.

Do you find that most people simply have no clue what the UN does, Jersay? I notice that those most prone to rattling off what they perceive as failures of the UN as proof that UN doesn't work really have no idea what the UN does.

The other day one of them told me that UNICEF and the WHO were both more effective than the UN. He, of course, had no idea that both are part of the UN.

excellent question rev. !!! (and I think you answered it very well too. Most that bitch about the UN are just following the Pharoah's preachings and don't have any more clue than he does.

Jersay...Good for you and wishing you well in your peacekeeping career.


Harper is far too militaristic........and trying to copy his idol to the south ......and that alone rules him OUT ... He loves to spend money just as much as the Pharoah does. He is "conservative" in name only. (IMHO)