Harper and the AIDS conference in Toronto

[tracy]

HIV is spread through bodily fluids. The sex with the least bodily fluid exchange is lesbian sex. Women are more likely to get it having sex with men (in fact they are more likely to get it from men than men are to get it from women). It's just the mechanics of the thing. That's why anal sex is the most dangerous form of sex. Being memonite or amish or whatever doesn't change the mechanics. It's not enough to make me turn lesbian, but it's interesting.

Personally, I recognize HIV for what it is: a disease. It's no different from TB, diabetes, heart disease or cancer. All diseases have behavioral components, but I'm not about to get on my high horse about it.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper and the AIDS conference in Toronto

[ . The lowest AIDS rates, at least in Canada, are in the heterosexual female group. Not Lesbians. Both, however, have extremely low infection ratres and extremely low from sexual activity. Most infection is from drug use and non-sexual procedures (especially drug transfusions in the 80's).

That's not the newer picture of HIV in Canada and the US I'm afraid. What we're seeing is what has already happened in Africa (heterosexual sex is spreading the disease to straight women more and more). For too long, we've thought we were almost immune to the risk of HIV, as straight women who don't use IV drugs. I've seen more and more HIV positive women giving birth. Most of them got it from boyfriends and husbands who didn't know they were infected until it was too late.

http://www.actoronto.org/website/home.nsf/pages/hivaidsstatswomen
Women represent a growing proportion of positive HIV test reports in Toronto, Ontario, and Canada. They have accounted for about 25% of all HIV diagnoses in Canada over the past three years (2001, 2002, and 2003). In the years between 1985 – 1997 they accounted for only 12% of HIV diagnoses.

Women accounted for 38.6% of all positive HIV test reports among Canadians aged 15 – 29 in 2002.

Heterosexual contact accounted for 58.3% of positive HIV test reports among women in 2002. It remains their main risk factor for HIV infection.

Injection drug use (IDU) is another significant risk factor. IDU accounted for 37.2% of positive HIV test reports among women in 2002.

Women make up an increasing proportion of Canadians living with AIDS, from 6.1% before 1994 to 16.5% in 2002.

Ontario

Women accounted for 27.8% of all positive HIV test reports in 2002.

Heterosexual contact accounted for 79.5% of HIV diagnoses among women in 2002.

Women accounted for 12.3% of all positive HIV test reports between 1985 and 2002.

It is estimated that 3.1 of every 10,000 pregnant women in Ontario in 2002 were HIV-positive

 

[Calberty]

Just a note: according to Health Canada about 15% of AIDS cases in Canada are from heterosexual activity Of that 15%, it's thought that most are not cases that incurred in Canada but entered Canada via immigration, student visits, etc. Drug use (second major cause of HIV) is higher among non heterosexual groups than heterosexuals but still not high in either group. The HIV rate in Canada is just less than one per thousand. The rate per non-drug using heterosexuals is about one per 7 thousand and the rate for non-drug using heterosexual Canadians not infected from outside of Canada is extremely rare.

 

[athabaska]

Re: RE: Harper and the AIDS conference in Toronto

but AIDS affect probably thousands of Canadians every year....

Muliples more people in Canada die in a single year from Heart disease than have died from AIDs in the last 25 years. The word 'thousand' might be a lot but there's a 'thousand thousand' in a million and Canada has 33 million people. AIDS is a blip statistically as a cause of death in Canada.

 

[athabaska]

Re: RE: Harper and the AIDS conference in Toronto

Just a note: according to Health Canada about 15% of AIDS cases in Canada are from heterosexual activity Of that 15%, it's thought that most are not cases that incurred in Canada but entered Canada via immigration, student visits, etc. Drug use (second major cause of HIV) is higher among non heterosexual groups than heterosexuals but still not high in either group. The HIV rate in Canada is just less than one per thousand. The rate per non-drug using heterosexuals is about one per 7 thousand and the rate for non-drug using heterosexual Canadians not infected from outside of Canada is extremely rare.

You can also get a better perspective from Stats Canada from their death statistics. One is 3500 males in Canada die from AIDs and the figure for females is one in 21,000 (rounded off). This is tragic but should hardly be a priority for our PM when everything from diabetes to melagnoma to car acidents to suicides to failing lungs, livers, and almost evey other part of the body causes more deaths.

 

[sine000]

man..Harpers messed up...

 

[The Project Man]

YES

 

[tamarin]

NO

 

[Cosmo]

Re: RE: Harper and the AIDS conference in Toronto

I almost fell over when the old question about whether or not AIDS is "God's" punishment for gay men came up. WTF??? AIDS didn't even start with gay men ... it started in the hetero community. Ignorance may be bliss to some but they are abusing the privilege.

The really funny part about that is that the community with the lowest infection rates through sex is lesbians... So if HIV is God's punishment, doesn't that mean lesbians must be the chosen people?

:lol: Yup. I'm sure it is. In fact ...

cosmo: "As for Harper not even showing up, I wasn't surprised, but I was disgusted. The guy should be shot and ..."

So did you vote Conservative?

I didn't the last two elections but might the next election. So far Harper has done what he set out to do and hasn't pandered to special interest groups such as the yuppies at the AIDS conference.

Say what? Did I vote for Harper?????????????? I'd vote for him about the same time I'd vote for a reincarnation of Hitler. So no, I did not, have never and will never vote Conservative. Calberty, I'm a dyke. They hate me! Harper is akin to the wolf guarding the henhouse.


Not "pandering to special interest groups" isn't a big seller in my books because the classification is so broad that it crosses the lines of human rights. Being part of an AIDS conference hardly falls into that category anyway. It's a world health issue.

Having said that, I do agree with Tamarin and Bluealberta that we need to worry about our own people before heading out to save the rest of the world. Once our own back porch is cleaned, then we can turn our attention elsewhere and offer some true assistance. Trying to save the world while our own country is burning is a division of labour that means no one gets our full attention.

Am I my brother's keeper? Sure ... but I can't very well keep my brother until I learn to keep myself. I figure I need to start with me and work outward.

This may sound cruel, but I suspect there is some "natural selection" at work here. Darwin stuff. If a group of people are vicitimizing their own for supersitious reasons, maybe they're not quite with the program yet. It breaks my heart that the innocent are the ones to pick up the tab on this, but I can't save them from themselves. Yi ... better run for my asbestos suit after saying that.

 

[feronia]

So if I'm reading your last point correctly, its natural selection that a major part of the South African population is dying of AIDS? Because they believe in their tribal elders and their tribal elders believe their government. They deserve to die. Did I understand your position correctly?

 

[feronia]

Say what? Did I vote for Harper?????????????? I'd vote for him about the same time I'd vote for a reincarnation of Hitler. So no, I did not, have never and will never vote Conservative. Calberty, I'm a dyke. They hate me! Harper is akin to the wolf guarding the henhouse

By the way, Hitler was all for natral selection.

 

[athabaska]

I read the above posts and am more pleased than ever that Harper didn't participate in the farce. There's obviously more of a political agenda to such a conference than real health concerns. It's unfortunate the whacky left exploits the suffering of millions to stroke their own egos and try to score political points.

 

[Cosmo]

So if I'm reading your last point correctly, its natural selection that a major part of the South African population is dying of AIDS? Because they believe in their tribal elders and their tribal elders believe their government. They deserve to die. Did I understand your position correctly?

Feronia ... yes and no. On the level of personal suffering, I find it too disturbing to even think about a great deal. I'm not heartless. From a more distant perspective, though, any civilization that does not progress will become obsolete. I didn't make the rules of natural selection, I don't even have to like them, but no matter how many flowers you put around it, bottom line is that they will either grow or die.

We can make efforts to help those societies become educated but we cannot force it upon them, no matter how abhorrent their practices are to us. And a society that routinely rapes babies isn't really one that is going to advance the human race as a whole.

It sounds cruel, but nature tends to be detached.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper and the AIDS conference in Toronto

I read the above posts and am more pleased than ever that Harper didn't participate in the farce. There's obviously more of a political agenda to such a conference than real health concerns. It's unfortunate the whacky left exploits the suffering of millions to stroke their own egos and try to score political points.

So, if I care about HIV in the third world I'm a wacky leftist? You don't understand me at all if that's what you think. I care about HIV because I care about health and I care about people who are suffering. That doesn't make me a special interest group. I also recognize that our security is enhanced when the rest of the world is stable. HIV is the biggest security threat much of the world has ever seen.

When did compassion and empathy become "wacky left" characteristics anyways? The American president who has been the best funder of HIV treatment in Africa isn't a democrat, it's George W Bush. You can't get much more conservative than that, yet he has committed more money to fight HIV in the third world than any government leader EVER. Fighting HIV isn't about politics and anyone who would ignore the problem because of politics is being incredibly short sighted IMO.

 

[tracy]

From a more distant perspective, though, any civilization that does not progress will become obsolete. I didn't make the rules of natural selection, I don't even have to like them, but no matter how many flowers you put around it, bottom line is that they will either grow or die.

We can make efforts to help those societies become educated but we cannot force it upon them, no matter how abhorrent their practices are to us. And a society that routinely rapes babies isn't really one that is going to advance the human race as a whole.

It sounds cruel, but nature tends to be detached.

You realize people say the same things about gay men right? That their perversion makes them unsaveable and even unworthy of our efforts to help them. I don't expect us to save the world. I do expect us to do what we can where we can. We've been incredibly lucky to be born in Canada. But, that's all it was (luck).

 

[sine000]

lol...

 

[athabaska]

I'm not lucky to be born in Canada. My parents worked hard to make Canada the way it is and I've worked hard to provide for my family. It's not luck that we don't condone raping women. It's not luck that we have food on the table and schools and freedom. we've earned it.

Whacko lefties leave the idea of self-responsibility at the doorstep.

Here's a condom. Use it. It's their choice and not ours. Women in these countries have no power? Why? I thought all the lefties were eager for black rule in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, etc. It was to be enlightenment on Earth. Don't forget to boycott grapes from South Afria...it will help speed up social progress in that country.

The irony is that the same f0lks so eager for black rule are the same ones who excuse away behaviors as a product of cultural ignorance and want White Man's burden to come to the rescue.e

Hint. Black people in Africa are humans with brains and can think for themselves. They can take responsibility for themselves just as our grandparents and parents and we do.

 

[sine000]

true....but it would be against Catholicism....thats if you believe it...

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Harper and the AIDS conference in Toronto

I'm not lucky to be born in Canada. My parents worked hard to make Canada the way it is and I've worked hard to provide for my family. It's not luck that we don't condone raping women. It's not luck that we have food on the table and schools and freedom. we've earned it.

Whacko lefties leave the idea of self-responsibility at the doorstep.

Here's a condom. Use it. It's their choice and not ours. Women in these countries have no power? Why? I thought all the lefties were eager for black rule in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, etc. It was to be enlightenment on Earth. Don't forget to boycott grapes from South Afria...it will help speed up social progress in that country.
.

You don't think we were lucky to be born in Canada? I get that you've worked hard, so have I, but do you think that same level of hard work would have gotten you much had you been born a girl in a poor Indian village? Or Sierra Leone?

As for them using condoms... Right. They should just go to the nearest Shopper's or London Drugs and pick up a supply... Why didn't they think of that in the first place? Personal responsibility will be key in stopping HIV, just like it is in preventing and treating most diseases. People need the tools to do that though. I'm not averse to us helping them get those tools and I wouldn't call myself a crazy lefty (I wasn't even alive when most African colonies got their independence) and I don't think we're responsible for saving the world. I don't know how you see this as a left right kind of thing anyways, unless you consider Bush to be a lefty. I just think it's callous to ignore suffering when you can help alleviate it. I think that says a lot more about us than it does about them.

 

[sine000]

lol...