Harper and Klein trash Canadian Values!

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Harper and Klein tras

Five Paradox..look, i understand that all provinces have had their struggles..but people forget that Alberta did too.

Its not you or anyone specific that I am singleout out..but I swear to God, it gets tiring every day turning on the tv or the radio or going on the internet and people associating Alberta with all things going wrong in life.

Last time i checked, or anyone else here from Alberta, we have CANADIAN listed as our citizenship, on my passport, on my birth certificate. But just for living in a province that is doing well, we are being treated like second class citizens not worthy of the Canadian title.

It gets tiring. I'm sorry you or anyone elses provinical government sucks. I'm sorry if your dog is sick, if you fish have died, if the weather is cold and your car won't start...but damnit, its NOT ALBERTA'S FAULT FOR EVERY DAMN THING THAT GOES WRONG IN THE COUNTRY!!!

Here Here, semper fi. I too grow weary of the bitching, and I too remember the 90 cuts, and I too very well remember the 80's after the NEP was imposed to deliberately destroy the Alberta economy. The fact that Alberta recovered from that, and recovered from the necessary cuts in the 90's is due primarily to the spirit of the Alberta people.

For the rest of Canada to bitch about us all the time when we pay the most PER CAPITA into Canada is hypocritical. If you don't like us, then don't take our money. We have better uses for it than Adscam, a gun registry, and an unneeded day care policy, to name three things. Get over yourselves. Jealousy is so passe!

 

[the caracal kid]

"Jealousy is so passe! "

it is, isn't it! (as i remember all the envy alberta seems to have towards Ontario and BC)

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: Harper and Klein tras

What envy? We could give a shit about any other place to be honest... like i don't sit there and go *geez, i sure wish i was in Ontario now*.

Well ..hold that thought...maybe i do. Cuz than i can call the army to shovel my driveway.

 

[cyberclark]

I agree, not Alberta's fault but you have to admit that Ralph in his clown suit managed to shuffle his way to achieve the leader of the right! He's the guy who walked out of ministers meetings. His group played the seperate if we dont' get our way, time and again.

In my heart of hearts I think it is specifically the Klein Government jumping on board the WTA agenda with such vigor that started the whole ball rolling.

 

[the caracal kid]

Re: RE: Harper and Klein tras

What envy? We could give a shit about any other place to be honest... like i don't sit there and go *geez, i sure wish i was in Ontario now*.

Well ..hold that thought...maybe i do. Cuz than i can call the army to shovel my driveway.

The people I have known that live in Alberta remind me of the people I have known in Las Vegas. They talked about how much nicer it is in <other places>: the better climate, the nicer cities, the better government, the better environmental record, bashed on the media (as one fellow put it "the farmer times"), etc, etc. Now why is it Alberta plays itself off of the other places? Just like vegas, everybody is trying to rationalize why they live there, trying to excuse being there. You got me why it is like that. Maybe it is different in Edmonton as I have only spent time in the lower half of Alberta where they affectionatly refer to EDmonton as DEADmonton. As one fellow in Calgary put it to me: " people only live in alberta for the oil money. Once they have saved enough they get out." He also said this is why there is no culture in alberta as people are only there doing their time and getting out.

That is why i see Alberta ripe with envy.

 

[cyberclark]

Well put!
The Alberta I grew up in is changing so very rapidly. Much has to do with weather. It wasn't that we had so much rain it was that the rain came at the best time for growing things.

We were always about 1/2 inch of rainfall over being ranked as a desert. Now however with the climate change firmly in place we have no moisture/too much moisture strata across the province and none of it appears to be enough to grow anything.

Yet, the politicals keep chasing their tails about how they are going to save rural Alberta while the kids are leaving home in droves and for good reason.

These farm kids make the best machine operators of the works!

I fault this Government in not building on the tremendous oil reserves. They are pumping 75 percent of the revenue into the pockets of the multi national oil companies. The 25 percent that is left over covers all the jobs travel meals; everything!

This outfit got brave and made an excursion into the Plastic Industry which promply went down the tubes when the price of oil went up.

We have not had mangement in this province since Peter Laugheed and now, he is working for the other side of the board peddling ATCO interests.

Yes, if I were to start another business it would be else where unless it was something that could sell directly into the oil patch.

I love this province. That's why I fight so hard for it.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Harper and Klein trash Canadian Values!

"Jealousy is so passe! "

it is, isn't it! (as i remember all the envy alberta seems to have towards Ontario and BC)

No jealousy here. Been to Ontario, and as much as I like trees occasionally, I prefer to be able to see more than a few miles. But I gotta admit, if BC was a little more stable, that would be my second choice.

 

[bluealberta]

I think the name of this thread should be changed to Harper and Klein trash Liberal Values. Liberal values and Canadian values are not one and the same, despite the claims to the contrary of the soon to be ex prime minister. I don't understand why people have to condemn the Alberta system but still envy the results. Seems a lot hypocritical. Only in Alberta can you go from enjoying the mountains, to foothills to prairies within a few hours. Our ecosystem is unlike any others, our entreprenurial system is unlike any others, and the spirit of our people is unlike any others. We welcome anyone and everyone, we have jobs, we have low taxes, we have no sales tax, we have career and employment opportunities up the wazoo, and as long as the feds don't try to rape us again, we will continue to have these advantages. Yes, resources are here, but it still took people with the above values, yes, Alberta values, to develop them. I still ask the question as to why Sask is just now becoming a have province? Surely the resources did not just stop at the Alberta/Sask border, did they? Difference is, Alberta has had a free enterprise government, and Sask has had a socialist, government knows better style of government for the most part.

But to not think that Albertans are here to make money and leave. The number of people you hear every day who came from some other part of Canada and who would now never leave is testament to that, as is their understanding of why Alberta has some issues with the Canadian federal system. It is our sincere hope that Harper will change this for the benefit of the entire country, but if he doesn't, rest assured he will be treated with the same scorn we give, in general, to the Liberals.

 

[nitzomoe]

Re: RE: Harper and Klein tras

Five Paradox..look, i understand that all provinces have had their struggles..but people forget that Alberta did too.

Its not you or anyone specific that I am singleout out..but I swear to God, it gets tiring every day turning on the tv or the radio or going on the internet and people associating Alberta with all things going wrong in life.

Last time i checked, or anyone else here from Alberta, we have CANADIAN listed as our citizenship, on my passport, on my birth certificate. But just for living in a province that is doing well, we are being treated like second class citizens not worthy of the Canadian title.

It gets tiring. I'm sorry you or anyone elses provinical government sucks. I'm sorry if your dog is sick, if you fish have died, if the weather is cold and your car won't start...but damnit, its NOT ALBERTA'S FAULT FOR EVERY DAMN THING THAT GOES WRONG IN THE COUNTRY!!!

I wish albertans would check their passports then as they seem to be the most cockyest independant minded ppl in all of canada. Nobody is blaming alberta for the provinces troubles, the problem is that your current premier seems to think that every1 else is screwing with their "rightful" earnings, they seem to forget that during the immigration times it was ontario and quebec fuelling their economies, that they werent self-sufficient. Hate to be cliche but alberta is not a team player.

 

[nitzomoe]

I think the name of this thread should be changed to Harper and Klein trash Liberal Values. Liberal values and Canadian values are not one and the same, despite the claims to the contrary of the soon to be ex prime minister. I don't understand why people have to condemn the Alberta system but still envy the results. Seems a lot hypocritical. Only in Alberta can you go from enjoying the mountains, to foothills to prairies within a few hours. Our ecosystem is unlike any others, our entreprenurial system is unlike any others, and the spirit of our people is unlike any others. We welcome anyone and everyone, we have jobs, we have low taxes, we have no sales tax, we have career and employment opportunities up the wazoo, and as long as the feds don't try to rape us again, we will continue to have these advantages. Yes, resources are here, but it still took people with the above values, yes, Alberta values, to develop them. I still ask the question as to why Sask is just now becoming a have province? Surely the resources did not just stop at the Alberta/Sask border, did they? Difference is, Alberta has had a free enterprise government, and Sask has had a socialist, government knows better style of government for the most part.

But to not think that Albertans are here to make money and leave. The number of people you hear every day who came from some other part of Canada and who would now never leave is testament to that, as is their understanding of why Alberta has some issues with the Canadian federal system. It is our sincere hope that Harper will change this for the benefit of the entire country, but if he doesn't, rest assured he will be treated with the same scorn we give, in general, to the Liberals.

until the oil dries up, all the things you stated is ebcause of the increase in proven adn future oil reserves. The "alberta succes" relies mostly on the oil and sunrise jobs derived from it.

Im all for free market enterprise I just doubt the Conservatives or Ralph klein could make it work effectively. they'd screw up royally.

 

[the caracal kid]

"I don't understand why people have to condemn the Alberta system but still envy the results."
I am critical of alberta, and envy not one thing about the place. Enjoy your oil. There is nothing worth living in a dry climate that is either being under a hairdryer or in a walk-in freezer, both with dust blowing in your eyes.

"Only in Alberta can you go from enjoying the mountains, to foothills to prairies within a few hours. Our ecosystem is unlike any others, our entreprenurial system is unlike any others, and the spirit of our people is unlike any others."
Second-rate mountains, second-rate snow, miserable weather. Of course all my opinion, but take it for what it is. I don't see much entrepenurialism in Alberta other than in RAPING the lands of oil. As for spirit, that i would like to see.

"We welcome anyone and everyone,"
especially if they will slave for crappy wages in hazardous conditions to get oil out of the ground, or menially to service oil piggies.

" we have jobs,"
In OIL, and supporting OIL! Oil industry goes down, welcome back to the 80's alberta! No it was not the NEP that got you, it was your one industry attitude. You failure to diversify and plan for the future. Alberta was and still is too busy gleaming over its oil it is like a "deer in the headlights". Well, there is a truck behind those headlights barreling down on you, Alberta.

" we have low taxes,"
true enough. too bad you also have everything that a good government would help create very low.

It costs more to live in Pacifica, and it is worth every penny. Just like it costs more to own a house than a trailer, but it is worth it.

 

[Gary]

The envious trashing Alberta!

I lived in Calgary from1996 to 2004, during that time in 98 oil hit $14 a barrel. Oil companies were laying off and drilling almost stopped but Klien still had a surplus budget and Alberta still lead the country in growth and had the lowest unemployment rate.
This happened because the Alberta economy is deversified and revenue from manufacturing had overtakin that of oil & gas.
However, nothing can compete with the income from oil now.
The federal government takes more money in transfer payments from Alberta than the combined royalities of all oil and gas in Alberta, about 10 billion a year.
When the oil runs out it will be a huge loss to Canada but Alberta will do just fine.

 

[the caracal kid]

not envious at all. there is nothing to be envious of. i can't stand the place based on my experiences there and i personally see no redeeming factors to it at all.

It will only get worse there too as the rivers dry up, the lands are destroyed by oil-hogs, etc.

I hope alberta enjoys its little run of fortune. every place deserves a little taste of success before it collapses completely.

 

[Gary]

That's what I like....positive thinking
I suppose having the best health care system, lowest taxes, crime rate, uneployment in the country are burdens that Albertan's will just have to bear. And with Calgary being one of the cleanest, safest, friendliest large cities in the world which just missed beating Vancouver as the best ( probably because it does'nt have Vancouver's beaches ) It just does'nt make sense that it is also the fastest growing in Canada.

 

[the caracal kid]

best healthcare? i think not.
unemployment, growth, only due to oil.
calgary clean? that is a joke.
calgary safe? when you look at the per-capita numbers its gun related deaths are higher than TO. Alberta also is #1 for domestic abuse. I am sure all those women feel real safe.
Calgary, a large city? only in sprawl.

 

[Gary]

Caracal
Have you lived in Calgary ?
Where bouts in the country do you live ?
Do you not like Albertan's , if so why ?

It's not hard to tell many left wingers from the right wing/conservative in this country.
one is negative, distorting the truth and spreading fear and even hatred.
the other wants positive change, were honesty and family are important canadian values, were the future of Canada is bright and strong.

 

[Jersay]

Gary, Caracel Kid is right. I lived in Alberta, for four years. It was miserable, the only good thing about it was the scenery, that if the Conservative government had a chance would mine, log or take out.

Now, Alberta doesn't have the best health care system in Canada.

And just because Calgary has less homicides than Toronto, because it has a less population to Toronto, if it was the same size, it would have more homicides.

 

[the caracal kid]

Don't care one way or another about albertans (i don't even see people as "albertans" since the people i have known there were from around the world). I just don't like alberta. I do not like the dustbowl syndrome, the lack of seasons, the cold, the constant weather fluctuations, the ecology, etc, etc, etc.

Politically, i see Alberta as shortsighted. With all its oil wealth it could be doing alot but it is wasting it.

Spreading fear? I am not spreading fear, i am telling my honest opinion on Alberta. We will see how alberta is doing after its waterways dry up. All that water pumped down oilwells will be sorely missed then, won't it?

I do want a postive bright strong future for canada. That has nothing to do with my distaste for Alberta though, and you are now just trying to divert the topic rather than address it. So be it. A bright strong future for canada is not going to come by adopting the Klien way federally, that is for sure. We have seen what "conservative" values have brought us in the past: bad news. However, this is not a party-political issue as both parties that have formed governments are fairly similar in their disservice to this country. It is the system that is a failure. This should not be about left-right when it comes to long term planning for the country. It should be about sustainability and quality of life, of which we require elements from accross the political spectrum to accomplish.

 

[nitzomoe]

RE: Harper and Klein tras

I travelled extensively in alberta/saskachewan/BC and really liked alberta in terms fo teh scenery, other than that I though it was poorly organized had amongst the highest murder rates in canada (yes thats true, your more likely to die in saskatoon for example than in toronto). I really liked calgray but abhorr edmonton. Its one massive surburb full of highways and big roads. Low density is not the future.

 

[ScreaminDemon]

Re: RE: Harper and Klein tras

Five Paradox..look, i understand that all provinces have had their struggles..but people forget that Alberta did too.

Its not you or anyone specific that I am singleout out..but I swear to God, it gets tiring every day turning on the tv or the radio or going on the internet and people associating Alberta with all things going wrong in life.

Last time i checked, or anyone else here from Alberta, we have CANADIAN listed as our citizenship, on my passport, on my birth certificate. But just for living in a province that is doing well, we are being treated like second class citizens not worthy of the Canadian title.

It gets tiring. I'm sorry you or anyone elses provinical government sucks. I'm sorry if your dog is sick, if you fish have died, if the weather is cold and your car won't start...but damnit, its NOT ALBERTA'S FAULT FOR EVERY DAMN THING THAT GOES WRONG IN THE COUNTRY!!!

:!:


Couldn't have said it better!