Hamas Wins

[Jersay]

Oh, I don't know, but maybe make it easier for moderate Palestinians to have the chance to fight off the extremists.

Because, with the border thing that took months to open, and others, it played right into the hands of the extremist.

Give the moderates the chance.

 

[Colin]

I for one think that Bush's statement towards Hamas was fair, and one that every other country should be making. Love him or hate him, personally I think he is a well meaning idiot that would nuke the world thinking he was saving it, but when he said the US will not deal with Hamas until they renounced their platform to destroy Isreal I think thats right. We are not talking about a government here that has said we will fight Isreal for our rights, they have said we will destory Isreal, and make no mistake that means killing all their people to, as we do not recognize it as a nation. I don't care what you think, thats genocide.

 

[darkbeaver]

Duze it matter what Palistine or Isreal want, Uncle Sam wants whats
already happening to continue forever, stability in the mideast is bad
for the Empire. It would slow the flow of oil (power) to the west.

 

[I think not]

*sigh* So Hamas was elected, so was another figure in history by promoting racism and ultra nationalist ideas.

 

[the caracal kid]

Strangely enough,

canada elected the Harperites partly out of a cry of corruption in the Liberals, and the Palistinians elected Hamas out of a cry of corruption in Fatah. Nice to know people and the systems are so similar everywhere.

for more on Hamas, for those interested, check out this link:
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=10217

 

[I think not]

Strangely enough the "Harperites" don't go around blowing up buses. You are seriously comparing the CPC to Hamas? :?

 

[sanch]

I can't see how Hamas can continue to send suicide bombers into Israel now that they are the government. They have to run the country if we can call it that. This would include trade deals with Israel as well as helping to facilitate the movement of labour back and forth from Israel. This may have been the best way for the Palestinians to realize peace.

 

[the caracal kid]

Not in action, but in how they came to be elected!

A swing to the opposite extreme out of a lack of alternatives.

Harper is the extreme of canadian politics, hamas the extreme of palistine.

 

[Jay]

Strangely enough the "Harperites" don't go around blowing up buses. You are seriously comparing the CPC to Hamas? :?

Ahh, but you have to remember we conservatives are responsible for all the misery in the world.

In Canada our "blowing up buses" is really just general accidents and such that happen because of cuts to social programming and cuts to TV commercials telling people not to run with scissors.

Please, ITN. We work hard at this stuff, don't marginalize our efforts.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Hamas Wins

Not in action, but in how they came to be elected!

A swing to the opposite extreme out of a lack of alternatives.

Harper is the extreme of canadian politics, hamas the extreme of palistine.

Harper is the extreme of Canadian politics for the fringe left, any sane person realizes that Harper is far from extreme. I think comparing Harper to Hamas is like comparing Hitler to the flying nun.

 

[the caracal kid]

you do that!

it is not a comparison of harper to hamas, but a comparison of the shift of parties and position in the political spectrum of each country due to a common underlying theme: the claims of corruption.

Harper is the extreme of canadian mainstream politics, period, not just to the "left". I am a person who looks for mulitfaceted solutions to problems, not one who operates on ideology or dogma, and i assure you that Harper is NOT the same as the old PC party. The old PC party was our centre-right if you like these spectrum labels. Harper is as extreme relative to the canadian political landscape as hamas is to the palistinian political landscape. You need to apply the appropriate mapping to understand this and not just be looking at them in isolation (it is what they are in thier respective fields that is important here, not what they actually stand for or have done/will do)

 

[nitzomoe]

I believe that Hamas's victory is a test, the main reason why so many palestinians are disillusioned with Fatah is because it has always tried to have the cake and eat the cake. they said they were a peaceful party yet PFLP and other fatah organizations are fully armed and extremely dangerous, a lot of news is posted in the mainstream. Gunfights in west bank are commonplace between Fatah members and security forces. Also Fatah was horrendously currupt, essentially using their one party standard to steal as much money away from development for the palestinians.(Colpy you thought the liberals were bad, Fatah was even worse)

Hamas seemed to make a lot of sense for ppl because of the free alternative benefits Hamas offered, incuding hospitals, educational subsidization, social welfare programs. It appeared to many palestinians that they mite actually run the country better.

The fact is Hamas may be able to run the country better without the peace proess. Show that you can run a country before getting one. Invariably for Hamas to make this work they will have to actively crush the arms trade and disarm themselves. If they can create the sort of success in government as they have on the street without violence then a informal ceasefire will exist. This will breed calm and resurgence between the arabs and israelis.

Lets face it, the last decade or so has been one hell of a roller coster and neither side is ready or willing to give up real concessions. The peace process is in tatters. If Hamas can lead the Palestinian ppl out of this mess, without all the illusions that existed during Arafat's time we could see a real peace process in 5 or 6 years. The next few years will be a telling sign.

Otherwise a very much revamped Fatah party will succeed Hamas, one that isnt prvy to a culture of entitlement, one that is fully unarmed and uses the security forces to quash the arms trade.

I would certainly like to see a mutually beneficial solution to this mess before I pass away. Israel/Palestine is a beautiful country, Jerusalem/Al-Quds is an amazing city.

 

[Jersay]

Now, if Hamas stays to sticking with fixing up the Palestinian infrastruture and other aspects of the Palestinian economy and area under its control. Maybe it will set the balance for an excellent country when the Palestinian territories finally become a country.

If they set up the framework, which they were elected to do, and on an anti-corruption pledge, not a destroy Israel pledge, I would think it would be pretty hard to return to suicide bombings and such.

Besides, most world powers have dealt with political offshoots of terrorist oragnaizations.

Sein Finn, Hezbollah, and others.

 

[FiveParadox]

If Hamas did indeed win legitimately, then we should be bound to respect the choice of the people. That doesn't mean we need to co-operate on the world stage, though, if such a government chooses to act in a way which our own nation may deem to be inappropriate.

 

[Finder]

Well the people elected them........ But I still think it was a very bad choice by the people. At least Canadians can say we actually didn't elect the conservatives since most people didn't vote for them. *shrugs*

 

[zoofer]

Many people consider the Fiberals and NDP as extreme leftists on the outer fringes of civilization. All depends how you were brainwashed in your impressionable youth.
Hamas was elected, so what? So was Hitler. Hamas can continue blowing up Israeli busses and pizza joints while claiming it is other terrorists. The USA has given the Palestinian Authority a billion dollars in aid over the years. The EU topped that. Oil rich Arab countries practically nil. If they persist in murdering Israelis this aid should be halted. Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization. I'm not sure American taxpayers will want to continue sending aid to an elected terrorist government.

 

[nitzomoe]

Many people consider the Fiberals and NDP as extreme leftists on the outer fringes of civilization. All depends how you were brainwashed in your impressionable youth.
Hamas was elected, so what? So was Hitler. Hamas can continue blowing up Israeli busses and pizza joints while claiming it is other terrorists. The USA has given the Palestinian Authority a billion dollars in aid over the years. The EU topped that. Oil rich Arab countries practically nil. If they persist in murdering Israelis this aid should be halted. Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization. I'm not sure American taxpayers will want to continue sending aid to an elected terrorist government.

if you dont noe, you shouldnt assume. Saudi Arabia alone has donated 150 million each year since 1996 to the palestinian ppl and the UAE is helping with the reconstruction effort in Gaza.Individual countries have donates sums periodically throughout the years after 1948. I would wager that if we to sum all the contributions and include interest the amount would be far more than what the US has given. mind you Israel has been given a helluva lot more every single year.

 

[I think not]

Oh we know nitzomoe, Israel has received around $80 billion since 1945 in aid, but then again so has Egypt (around $60 billion) as part of the peace treaty between the two. Pull the plug on all of them I say, I'm sick of my money going to these countries.

 

[nitzomoe]

sorry i didnt provide links.

for the Saudis you can access a copy of their dealings: funding to the palestinian authority is around $100 million per year and a total fo 2.6 billion in the last 12 years and funding that may have gone to insurgent organizations making an even 50-60 million

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32499.pdf

ITN i completely agree. Egypts economic problems are due to poor fiscal decisions and bad economic planning, if anything the US should provide advisors.

Israel doesnt need the money whatsoever as it has been through their own poor monetary decisions and have come up with an okay economic system.

 

[Nosferax]

Re: RE: Hamas Wins

If Hamas did indeed win legitimately, then we should be bound to respect the choice of the people. That doesn't mean we need to co-operate on the world stage, though, if such a government chooses to act in a way which our own nation may deem to be inappropriate.

The Nazi party was also elected by the people... If a new Nazi party is elected somewhere should we respect the decision of the people now that we know what happened the last time? We know Hamas support terrorism. That's a fact. Should we also endorse them.