Gun ownership up, crime down

[CDNBear]

I am looking forward to you providing them. But I am guessing that this is the last I will hear of the issue.

Obviously not, since reported trends look bad for your aging stats.

2013's release of 2012's stats is only a short time off.

 

[Colpy]

In a free society, we err on the side of liberty, or we are soon NOT a free society.

No, in a free society we err on the side of common sense; a point gun advocates have continually overlooked.

Common sense dictates that if there are to be weapons in society (a given) you do not restrict their use to only the bad guys......

Figure it out? How about already having enough guns to arm almost every US citizen is more than enough to maintain the US as the world leader in gun crime among modern Western nations?


.

Funny how you have to include two qualifiers in that one sentence to make it even feasible:

First "gun crime"

When you limit the scope of investigation to one area, you skew the results.................

Second: "modern Western nations"

Actually that is two more qualifiers, but heck, your premise is already blown out of the water..........

I love this stuff! So do you think just maybe that the fact you have to eliminate a third of the world's nations from the equation before you can make the US look bad that your premise is a little off???

In reality, the US murder rate is only 2/3 of the world average, and dropping.

 

[Niflmir]

Indeed, guns are such a good thing for society that the ATF decided that the Mexican drug lords needed more of them. After all, if increasing levels of guns are correlated with lower crime rates...

Needs some randomised control testing that just will not happen in the real world.

Common sense dictates that if there are to be weapons in society (a given) you do not restrict their use to only the bad guys......

Actually, a lot of gun control makes it tautological that only bad guys will have guns. The idea being: arrest them before they do something actually dangerous.

I like how you say weapons instead of guns though. I find it odd that in Canada, you can legally own a handgun, but you cannot legally own nunchaku, blowguns, morning stars, tasers or pepper spray. I especially find this funny given that the police will use a taser on somebody just for what essentially amounts to talking back to them.

 

[Bar Sinister]

What part of peeps lining up to buy firearms since the demise of the registry don't you get? The idea that only old people soon to die own unregistered firearms is also ridiculous and those few that do pass them to family. The cops know that there are at LEAST two rifles/shotguns hidden and never registered for every registered one, they ain't gonna discuss that. Not to mention that neither the registry nor the P.A.L have rarely ever been enforced on the majority of native reserves across the country and certainly not in the remote areas.
btw, how has gun control worked in the Jane and Finch area of TO? Montreal, Vancouver, etc, a tiny percentage of the total Canadian population, shootings literally every day and peeps like you go after folks who have never and never will abuse their use of firearms.
You are obviously not part of the hunting/shooting fraternity and make assumptions according to what the lame stream media and government tell you. Good luck with that but don't try to bullchitt the people who know.

Oops me bad, you are correct and everything will be alright, don't worry, ignore everything i said.

Its not hard to ignore deliberate ignorance, but I will respond with one more reply on this issue. What I don't get is the complete lack of data to support your claims. Give me some evidence that the number of gun owners has increased at a rate greater than the population increase and I will agree with you. So far no one has been able to do that. And as I have pointed out to Colpy and others on numerous occasions all that need be done is compare shootings in Canada with shootings in the USA to see the futility of gun ownership as a deterrent to crime. Crime of all types in Canada is down, including gun crimes and yet there is little evidence that Canadians have decided to arm themselves to the teeth the way Americans have.

I find discussion of gun ownership tedious. No matter how much in the way of data I present the gun advocates cling to their semi-religious obsession that guns must be good simply because they like them. It would be refreshing to actually have a gun advocate admit that he likes guns in spite of the lack of evidence to support their usefulness instead of attempting to justify his obsession with the specious claim that somehow more guns equals a safer society while blithely ignoring the fact that more guns means more criminals have guns. Quite frankly I suspect that every citizen in Canada could be given the right to carry guns openly and the impact on crime would be zero - just as it is in the USA.

Now, unless anyone has any comment that might actually advance this thread (and I doubt that there will be) this is my last post in this thread.

BTW I don't regard feeble attempts at character assassination to be particularly constructive.

 

[L Gilbert]

Ditto! :smile:

Dit3!

Yes. Crime is down in Canada as well. And gun ownership here is declining.

According to whom?

 

[CDNBear]

Give me some evidence that the number of gun owners has increased at a rate greater than the population increase and I will agree with you.

How exactly is moving the goalposts advancing the thread?

 

[L Gilbert]

Unregistered firearms are pretty much irrelevant to this discussion. My point was that firearm ownership is declining and the stats prove that.

Stats also showed that firearm crimes were declining long before the stunned registry was a whisper and that after the registry was introduced, firearms crime went up.

Eventually the owners of unregistered firearms will die and their survivors will have to decide whether or not they wish to continue breaking the law.

yeah, gang members will take to swatting people with NERF bats instead of shooting at them with guns, too.

At such time I expect most of these firearms will be turned over to the police. The decline will continue, taking Canada in the opposite direction of the USA.

I know that there are loads of people around who'd love to trip out on whatever it is that you are tripping out on.

Since this little discussion began I have asked twice for you to provide alternative statistics. And you have failed to do that. Feel free do do so if you can find any. Somehow though, I suspect if such proof existed gun advocates would be quick to trot it out. The fact that you can't probably means all of the evidence is in the other direction.

But I have posted a lot of facts which you seem to ignore. Such as the fact that gun-related crime was declinging BEFORE the registry, a lot of people registered their hair dryers, squirtguns, paint strippers and a lot of other items that even closely resemble guns, and a huge fact, namely that criminals don't give a **** about gun laws and gun registries.

Indeed, guns are such a good thing for society that the ATF decided that the Mexican drug lords needed more of them. After all, if increasing levels of guns are correlated with lower crime rates...

Needs some randomised control testing that just will not happen in the real world.



Actually, a lot of gun control makes it tautological that only bad guys will have guns. The idea being: arrest them before they do something actually dangerous.

I like how you say weapons instead of guns though. I find it odd that in Canada, you can legally own a handgun, but you cannot legally own nunchaku, blowguns, morning stars, tasers or pepper spray. I especially find this funny given that the police will use a taser on somebody just for what essentially amounts to talking back to them.

Morning stars? Really? Are you speaking of these: