I've decided I don't want to talk about scripturaly sanctioned violence to women any more. If you want to have a miserable life being married to a woman who doesn't want to be with you such that you must use violence to make her have sex with you, then I think that's evidence neanderthals never went extinct, rather, they just integrated into certain populations, and if you want to live here, then if you get caught doing violence to women, then if the cops don't get you first, you're going to be grabbed by a volunteer posse, held down, and the Quran is going to be shoved down your throat if you dare use it as justification for your behavior; and frankly, I seriously doubt Mohammed would have an issue with that.
Besides, the Quran puts *limits* on how violent a husband can be, i.e. no broken bones, wounds or contusions, which means Arabia must have been an idiotically brutal place where spousal abuse was so common that it would have been seen as inspiring and enlightened for Mohammed to tell guys they have to put a lid on the extent to which they can do harm... *plus* it never says a husband *must* be violent to his wife... he can choose to walk away from it. (Just be prepared to deal with the fact that if you select that option, then when she's calmed down, her female nature is going to want to talk-it-out, so just sit there and listen and hear what her beef was... you might actually learn something... one of the big bonuses of being with a woman is that her female mind can see things from an angle that your male mind might not; listening to their insights has saved my bacon enough times for me to have learned to at least listen, whether or not I choose to abide.)
Anyway, getting back to the theme of this thread, which is:
The good behavior, manner, conduct, morale in the Quran
Some people here and elsewhere on intention say the Quran is savage, wild, violent, no conduct, no good morale, no humanity, no kindness … while the atheist and idolater are the humanity lover and they practice all kindness and mercy towards the poor and weak!
Well, yeah, most Christians do have an issue with a certain aspect of Islam, and it comes from stuff like this:
"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not. (2:216)
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (9:5)
Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the
jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29)."
Aside from the fact that that's a strait-out scriptural deceleration of hostility towards Christians, there's another aspect, which is that pure Christianity in it's unadulterated form is strictly about people being peaceful and cooperative with each other.
Yet with that, they still have trouble enough getting their own to be nice to each other without imagining how difficult it would be maintaining order if they had scripture *approving* of hostile behavior.
They already think they're hostile enough even with the New Testament proscribing against violence and abuse to the extent that they figure their only hope is to have enough faith in Jesus to be forgiven. They *don't* need to hear scripture telling them it's okay to be abusive!
So... how do intend to convince a bunch of Christians that they're supposed to feel safe around you just because there are some parts of the Quran prescribing good behavior, manners, conduct, and morals, when you've got those other passages advocating strait-out openly violent hostility towards Christians?
Nowhere in the New Testament, which is what Christianity is all about, does it say anywhere to go out and start chopping people's heads off if they don't covert.
And by the way, Christianity is *not* about the Old Testament.
The Old Testament was originally included in the Bible only to serve as historical reference because Christian missionaries found they couldn't convert gentiles without first explaining to them the historical context leading up to the birth of Christianity, which was done by having them learn Torah history first, and at some point the Torah and the books of the New Testament were stitched together into what we call the Bible, and the Torah got renamed Old Testament.
Over time, some Christians forgot why the Old Testament was in the Bible, and they started taking it as Gospel, so if you ever hear a Christian justifying his behavior with passages from the Old Testament, he's not being a Christian... he's being what's called a Judeao-Christian.
Denominations dependent upon passages from the Old Testament to define their denomination are not Christian, they are Judeao-Christian, but so often they don't seem to realize it; they think they're just Christian, and I suspect it was that back-and-forth mish-mashing of Judaism with Christianity which was just one of the things annoying Mohammed when he would talk about how the original purposes and intents of the faiths had become corrupted and confused over time... often by self-serving special-interests.
Anyway... Christians and Judeao-Christians are already perfectly aware of the fact that the Quran is full of good advice about how to behave with excellent moral conduct - you're not telling anybody anything they didn't already know - but what about those passages advocating open hostility and violence towards Christians, Judeao-Christians, and Jews?
the "Holy War")
