Gomery nails Chretien not Martin

[meitme]

something iteresting is they say there was 100 million dollars badly spent in the sponsorship scandal. and as i remember it cost around 100 million dollars for the gomery inquiry. so looking at that it is interesting TAXPAYERS PAY JUST AS MUCH FOR THE INQUIRY.

remember no matter hom much the gomery asks for martin has to grant it so it is not his falt(i am talking politcaly he has too).

the reason i think the liberals are the people to vote for is what the concervative may do. harper does belive in private health care. if he thinks he can do it politcaly he will and nobdy wants that. also harper nobody notices did say he wanted to go in iraq. also he says he wan't the lowest tax rate in the world. think about that. there is 2 ways of getting that done. doing things like cutting all services like health care(*cough* private health care *cough). the other is bringing up the debt like bush did.

actualy harper has about the same belifs as bush. the quetion is if he will have the power to do what he wants because the canadians don't want him to do it.

a great thing about martin is he will do whatever he thinks is politcally best. this means he will not do anything too stupid no matter what. many people say he has the survival skills of a rat etc... I think this is good he will always do something he thinks canadians want.

 

[Reverend Blair]

the reason i think the liberals are the people to vote for is what the concervative may do

So why vote Liberal? There are many other choices, not just Conservatives and Liberals. On this board we have a candidate for the Green Party and at least a couple of CAP supporters. The NDP are an option. So are parties like the Progressive Canadians and the Cosmopolitan Party. Surely there is an option other than Liberal or Conservative in your riding.

 

[damngrumpy]

Withing a week no one will care about what happened, they just don't like the Conservatives. We don't want private health care, we don't want to saddle up and ride with Bush, and we don't like the social conservative agenda being manipulated by the evangelical christian movement internationally.
The biggest factor is most canadians don't give a damn about the sponsorship scandle anymore its old news. Martin made a great move the enquirery has bored everyone to tears, and Harper has lost his edge. The smart thing would be to let Harper crowd win and force an election for December 27th. If that happened there would be enough room to hold a conservative convention in a telephone booth.

 

[meitme]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

ok look at this. I think the NDP are just liberals that call themself something else and steal votes from the liberals. the bloc are sepratists and i live in newfoundland not quebec. all other parties have never had a seat beofre. well the green party hasen't at least and they are the biggest one. so i don't vote for parties who don't have a chance.

also it is not a liberal problem(the sponsorship scandal) it is a democrtic problem. the pasfic scandal ,water gate... these were republican and concervative. actauly this happens all the time. it is more that hte liberals got caught.

so though the sponsorship scandal is something bad about the liberals it really is not that bad.

 

[alex31]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

The NDP are not that bad but people who vote for the NDP are almost certanly voteing for the librals if there is no NDP.

 

[Karlin]

Re: LOCK HIM UP - it was WRONG

In central Canada most don't care, in the east it is the way political business is conducted

That what JC is saying - he did some good things for Canada {-stayed out of Iraq, Kyoto, Quebec separatism, and balanced budgets] and whatever crimes he had to committ were worth it.

Is he saying it was worth it to the Canadian people too?
or just JC?

What JC is NOT saying is what I want to hear most from him:
"It was worth it to me, so I am prepared to go to jail for what I did".

But NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo... JC has to keep his little self from any repercussions. No "big man who can stand up to the consequences of his actions, just the little guy from shawinagan.

His ego could not take it if he was found guilty, I know these kind of people and they are disconnected in some ways like admitting doing wrong, just can't accept it, allways justified and justifying themselves.

lock him up i say, or it will encourage future leaders to do similiar crimes. This was not a good thing JC, it was WRONG even if it did save Canada . It was WRONG because it saved Canada by tactic and not heartfelt opinion - manipulators of people don't see the difference. Lock him up like a common criminal!!!

 

[alex31]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

Also what is really weird is how some of the money from the sponsership scandal ment to keep Quebec in Canada went to the bloc the sepratists

 

[Andygal]

ok look at this. I think the NDP are just liberals that call themself something else and steal votes from the liberals.

Uh no the NDP are completely different from the Liberals, have you een paying any attention, how you read the NDP platform, totally different from the Liberals.

The Liberals are centre-right, the NDP are leftist, the Conservatives are majorly right wing and the Bloc is also leftist not that I care cause I live in BC and I despise the seperatists.

 

[meitme]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

ya i have to say alex i never understood that. i gess they figured out and people wanted to shut them up.

ok karlin. you say lock him up
1) who in there right mind says put me in jail. especialy when they have a strong case they never did it. the only evidene gomery has is that one person(something to note). also i am oing to brign up the micheal jackson case now. Micheal should not have gone to jail because there was not enough evidence against him(of corse he did not) . he may have done this I do not know. i do not care. it does not matter in court if someone did it or not it matters if you can prove it.
2) also he is not facing that he is facing normal fines
3) this is a common thing done and will contiue to happen. politics is a you scratch my back i will do it to you. for example compony's that donate money to the party get more influence in what happens this will never change
4)who are you asking to do this. nobody the courts decide that.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

ok look at this. I think the NDP are just liberals that call themself something else and steal votes from the liberals.

Uh no the NDP are completely different from the Liberals, have you een paying any attention, how you read the NDP platform, totally different from the Liberals.

The Liberals are centre-right, the NDP are leftist, the Conservatives are majorly right wing and the Bloc is also leftist not that I care cause I live in BC and I despise the seperatists.

gotta tell ya..........I love your honesty. :wink:


anyhow........don't "we" all just love a good scandal.??? In politics that is a given.

 

[meitme]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

the NDP will they or will they not win an election(well the concervatives will win my riding so my vote does not count anyway). but anyway the NDP are more liberal left yes but not that much. THE LIBERALS ARE LEFT NOT LIKE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THE DEMOCRATS ARE CENTRE. but anyway think about this they normaly say
1) raise or stay the same in taxs
2)raise health care is martins pretty much number one issue
3)support gay maridge and abortion
4)never want to go in iraq
5) are supportive of kyoto not as much as the NDP but they still support it
i stopped there not wanting to waste my time

 

[Reverend Blair]

I think the NDP are just liberals that call themself something else and steal votes from the liberals.

Then you have a lot of learning to do.

all other parties have never had a seat beofre. well the green party hasen't at least and they are the biggest one. so i don't vote for parties who don't have a chance.

If nobody ever votes for them, they will never have a chance and we will not ever get change as a result.

also it is not a liberal problem(the sponsorship scandal) it is a democrtic problem.

It is very much a Liberal problem. They are the ones who did this.

the pasfic scandal ,water gate... these were republican and concervative.

Yes, but their guilt in no way absolves the Liberals.

actauly this happens all the time.

And it will continue to happen as long as people will only consider voting for two parties.

The NDP are not that bad but people who vote for the NDP are almost certanly voteing for the librals if there is no NDP.

If that were the case, the NDP wuld not exist.

Also what is really weird is how some of the money from the sponsership scandal ment to keep Quebec in Canada went to the bloc the sepratists

That isn't weird at all. Federal money is available to all who qualify for the program it is administered under.

the NDP will they or will they not win an election(well the concervatives will win my riding so my vote does not count anyway). but anyway the NDP are more liberal left yes but not that much.

Compared to the Martin Liberals, the NDP are quite left.

THE LIBERALS ARE LEFT NOT LIKE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THE DEMOCRATS ARE CENTRE.

Actually, the Liberals are very much like the Democrats right now...a centre-right party that panders to the corporate agenda.

1) raise or stay the same in taxs

Martin originally had a large corporate tax cut in his last budget.

2)raise health care is martins pretty much number one issue

Martin was responsible for many of the spending cuts that caused health care and education to be underfunded. He has refused to do anything to keep the provinces from introducing private care. He talks a good game, but he does not deliver in the end.

3)support gay maridge and abortion

Both of those matters were essentially decided in the courts. In both cases the courts had made their decisions before Martin was PM. He had little choice in the matter.

4)never want to go in iraq

Martin never really took a public stand on Iraq. There is some evidence that he would have gone into Iraq if he were PM at the time. Other Liberals, like Bill Graham, wanted to go to Iraq quite badly.

5) are supportive of kyoto not as much as the NDP but they still support it

They have never come up with a real plan and emissions have steadily increased under the Liberals.

 

[no1important]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

I will always vote NDP and I think the reason there support is not reflected in the polls is people are scared of Conservatives.

I really believe the NDP has more than the 15%-20% the polls keep showing, many people just do not want Cons to get in. Too bad they did not vote NDP as I would bet if the people who vote liberal instead of NDP due to fear of conservatives getting in the NDP could easily get 60 -65 seats.

 

[meitme]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

well it seems we havea bit of a disagrement. lol

1) the NDP though they do play an important part in a mintority pariment they are not very importatn most of the time. without the NDP were would all those people vote for. the concervative the bloc?(the ndp as i remember have almost no votes in quebec) so obviouly they take the votes away from the liberals just like the alliance took away from the concervatives. so really though a few would not vote most would take votes from the liberals also lets look at this
DISTRICT X
concervative 30%
liberal 25%
NDP10%
when looking at the last election results i saw many things that looked like this. I know there are many flaws it is only an example. but really in this situation without the NDP the liberal would probalby win

also the NDP will never have power in a non-minortiy pariliment.
2)i understand this. this is a problem in it i know. i have talked to many people about this. i understand that nobody would ever grow in to fill the gap but i think my vote is worthless enough(my vote will not change the districts dessicion but if nobody votes we have the same thing) to not make even less worthless and vote for somebody so someday they may have a chance.
3)if you do not know what really goes on in this. the exact thing that happened is not happening everywhere. but similar things like my example you took out in your quote. the you do somehthing for me i do something for you. for example where i live there is a argument over whether a company should develop in area they need to change the zone to do this. the thing is though peolple don't want this. i am sure today that many city concilers and possible city concilers were bribed into saying it should go in there. this is not a single example everything I have ever been told has said this.
4) they are the ones who did it. but a better way of saying it is. they are the ones who go caught.
5)no it does not but it is an example that the concervative could do something like that just as much as the liberals could. the NDP could they all could do it. it has nothing to do wiht the party.
6) no if we bring in new party's they will do it. it happens in every place in the world. this is because there is no perfect system because all humans do sins.
7) is a jumble i am sorry about that mess i do not understand what i am saying myself though i know you are wrong
8)yes it is the plan was to make quebec not separate so to give it to people who want to separtate canada makes no sense unless it was a bribe of some sort
9)well they ar a bit but i don't think that much when you look at the too extremes. but whatever. the point is if the NDP did not exsit then the liberals would get most of there votes.
10) no the democrats are different. they are on the other side in gay maridge and abortion(actualy kery made a wesly statment on one of them i forget which) they are in favor of much lower taxs. wow i seem to be having a mental lapse of kerry's platform.
11)hey i belive in large corprate tax cuts. i am not going to debate that i do not have time. i know they are concidering them now to gain votes for a pre-election spending spree but ya.
12)he put what amount of billions in. also PRIVATE HEALTH CARE IS BAD IT COSTS WAY TOO MUCH FOR WAY TOO LITTLE. BECAUSE ALL THE DOCTORS GET PAID INCREDIBLE SUMS OF MONEY. THAT IS THE REASON WE PAY THEM HIGH HERE TO GET THEM BECAUSE THE US PAYS DOCTORS SO MUCH. we would not need to pay them that much if it was not for the US
13) i'm sorry about that but that is something very brought up whenever i talk to a real concervative so though i never heard martin say anything on it i was just taking some concervatives i know as sources. it is always said in the news something that hints at martin doing it but never says it outright(in my expirence)
14)yes he did you are wrong on that i have had many news people say you are wrong so far i have assumed you are correct but you are wrong on that. also most ministers do say iraq is good whenever i hear anyone say something
15)i know i was always disapointed in that. but he does do more then what the concervatives would do. anyway he has done things but not enough the pollution get worse because we have last years pollution(whats left) and this years added on

ps the reason the NDP does not get that many seats i think is the opposite of the liberals problem with the NDP. many liberal seats the NDP get alot of votes in but not enough to win the liberal dominated seat

 

[Karlin]

Ok, it is obvious - we will vote NDP.

voting NDP is not throwing votes away, it is just not true now. ook at the good Layton did while minority, just imagine if they had power, and they can get it next election.

Voting NDP is the only "major party option".
Liberals, if returned after pissing in our faces with Sponsorship crimes, will be whipping it out more and more if rewarded by getting your vote.
Conservatives, the CPC, under Harper, is a party for elites, the radical christian right, and corporate american brownnosers only, nobody else will be served if the CPC wins an election. Having a Secret Agenda might be worse than outright theft of taxpayer dollars, eh? There are so many reasons why Harper's CPC would be worse than the Libs, Americanism being the most worrisome.
Independants and smaller status parties meantioned earlier in this thread would be an option to look into. At least a specific platform, even with few other supporters, gives those who agree with the platform something to feel good about. Voters can find a way of being represented with these minor parties.

The way out is to tear down the well established back-room cronyism, throw the bums out and get all new ones in.
People like Chretien survive totally on their sordid past, gaining the upper hand on various people, being owed favours to be plucked at the right time, and so much Sword of Damocleas hanging over heads. Take the stage away and those past power plays will not be valid anymore.

Clean Sweep!! - go for the NDP for just one term and so much old nonsense will be cleaned out, it is a golden opportunity, esp at this time, to vote NDP.

are you with me?
Karlin

 

[Andygal]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

I am with you!

I will be voting NDP in the next election. The way I see it they are the only possible option for somebody seeking an end to the rampant corruption that now runs through the government.

Well the only *major* possible option. Small parties much also be an option if you agree with their platforms.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

I'm with you Karlin, or maybe you're with me. I guess it depends which of us was born first.

Something I really think the NDP should push over the next while is proportional representation. If we can get that through, then parties will be represented by how much of the popular vote they get. That gives the smaller parties a chance to have a voice, as well as wiping out the likelihood of ever having a majority government again.

It would also go a long way towards reducing corruption, since it is unlikely that something like the sponsorship program would be run under the watch of just one party.

 

[Andygal]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

I agree. We need PR. We are one of the few western nations (us and the US) that doesn't have any form of PR. Which is stupid. It's time to get into the 21st century.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Gomery nails Chretien

I'm with you Karlin, or maybe you're with me. I guess it depends which of us was born first.

Something I really think the NDP should push over the next while is proportional representation. If we can get that through, then parties will be represented by how much of the popular vote they get. That gives the smaller parties a chance to have a voice, as well as wiping out the likelihood of ever having a majority government again.

It would also go a long way towards reducing corruption, since it is unlikely that something like the sponsorship program would be run under the watch of just one party.

Fringe parties can still win riding seats based on votes from individual ridings, Rev. Look back at the provincial elections in Quebec when they had the now defunct Equality party (or is it defunct?). They were able to win several seats in the Quebec National Assembly. They got those seats without the proportional representation vote.

 

[Senathos]

RE: Gomery nails Chretien

What this country needs in order to get back into functioning shape is the two main parties again: Grits and Tories. All this vote-splitting creates an unstable political atmosphere where nothing can get done. Every party disagrees on a lot of issues, and it is hurting this country by being unable to move in any direction strongly.