God Squad

[Said1]

Perhaps Vanni, you can make a distinction between church and ones faith. Organized religion seems to be the problem. Not people having faith.

I do make that distinction ITN, but the inescapable truth is that without faith, there is no church, nor religion. You cannot condemn one without condemning the other, by proxy.

It is people's faith in their religion that causes them to do attrocities against humanity...whether that be in the form of a holy crusade, or something more subtle, such as denying a minority their rights, due to religious convictions, with a whole gamut of infractions in between...

If they were allowed the opportunity to cast doubt on their church's doctrine, much misery could be avoided, however faith, by its nature precludes such an allowance...and the cycle of misery is continued ad aeternus...

There is example after of example showing how states have used religion as a means of control. Hawaii and Easter Island are good examples.

 

[I think not]

Just as there is extremism in politics there is extremism in religion. There is really no difference.

Everything when taken in measure harms no one.

Just as Christianity held inquisitions, they were also fed to the lions.

You do not have believe any God to be a good person. But you can always learn a few things from religion without having faith.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

There is example after of example showing how states have used religion as a means of control. Hawaii and Easter Island are good examples.

...and it has been my contention, that this was the intent all along...and there is much sociological data that suggest that it is still happening today...

 

[I think not]

Yes she was famous for that hair over the eye said...well no they were not talkin about religion, they were talking about homosexuals getting married, I was telling those macho boys about lib was saying...hence the who gives a shit if they marry Okay I will leave you two alone now

I guess I missed more posts in that thread.

Said1, looks alot sexier with a gun in her hand

Hmmm, I think the Yank has a crush on little ol moi. :lol:

Yank? Call me milk, I'll do your body good

 

[Vanni Fucci]

You do not have believe any God to be a good person. But you can always learn a few things from religion without having faith.

True, and what I've learned from religion is that intolerance is hard-coded into the very fibre of the belief system...

 

[I think not]

You do not have believe any God to be a good person. But you can always learn a few things from religion without having faith.

True, and what I've learned from religion is that intolerance is hard-coded into the very fibre of the belief system...

I've seen atheists being intolerant also. Don't blame faith on peoples narrow minds, blame organizaed religions.

 

[Said1]

There is example after of example showing how states have used religion as a means of control. Hawaii and Easter Island are good examples.

...and it has been my contention, that this was the intent all along...and there is much sociological data that suggest that it is still happening today...

Without question, it is happening in certain parts of the world today. their societal moral codes and laws are stem from Sharia (for example). I have my problems with Evangelicalism also, I think it's just as repressive as they claim fundimental Islamism is in the Middle East.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I've seen atheists being intolerant also. Don't blame faith on peoples narrow minds, blame organizaed religions.

That I do...but in the end, it is the individual that is responsible for what is believed and what isn't...just as I am responsible for the beliefs that I hold dear, and if anyone is hurt because of it, I should be held accountable...for me, the individual does not escape culpability that easily...

 

[I think not]

I've seen atheists being intolerant also. Don't blame faith on peoples narrow minds, blame organizaed religions.

That I do...but in the end, it is the individual that is responsible for what is believed and what isn't...just as I am responsible for the beliefs that I hold dear, and if anyone is hurt because of it, I should be held accountable...for me, the individual does not escape culpability that easily...

Yes it is, no argument there. There are people in this world that have a need to believe in something greater than themselves. Now if Christians (I only pick on them because I am more familiar with the religion) would follow one simple teaching:

"love thy enemy"

Don't you think the world would be better? Since many do not follow this teaching, I would have to say they are not Christians but have a distorted faith to suit organized religion.

 

[Said1]

You do not have believe any God to be a good person. But you can always learn a few things from religion without having faith.

True, and what I've learned from religion is that intolerance is hard-coded into the very fibre of the belief system...

I don[t know about that, Buhdism (sp?) specifically teaches that other religions that teach a respect for life are all different paths towards the same goal (more or less - LOL). Other religions teach that their path is the only way into heaven/paradise/nirvana.

 

[Said1]

Yes she was famous for that hair over the eye said...well no they were not talkin about religion, they were talking about homosexuals getting married, I was telling those macho boys about lib was saying...hence the who gives a shit if they marry Okay I will leave you two alone now

I guess I missed more posts in that thread.

Said1, looks alot sexier with a gun in her hand

Hmmm, I think the Yank has a crush on little ol moi. :lol:

Yank? Call me milk, I'll do your body good

Milk?? Dang, I f you only said chocolate.......

 

[I think not]

Yes she was famous for that hair over the eye said...well no they were not talkin about religion, they were talking about homosexuals getting married, I was telling those macho boys about lib was saying...hence the who gives a shit if they marry Okay I will leave you two alone now

I guess I missed more posts in that thread.

Said1, looks alot sexier with a gun in her hand

Hmmm, I think the Yank has a crush on little ol moi. :lol:

Yank? Call me milk, I'll do your body good

Milk?? Dang, I f you only said chocolate.......

You read my mind!!! I meant chocolate milk

 

[Vanni Fucci]

You do not have believe any God to be a good person. But you can always learn a few things from religion without having faith.

True, and what I've learned from religion is that intolerance is hard-coded into the very fibre of the belief system...

I don[t know about that, Buhdism (sp?) specifically teaches that other religions that teach a respect for life are all different paths towards the same goal (more or less - LOL). Other religions teach that their path is the only way into heaven/paradise/nirvana.

...and yet there are Buddhists in Sri Lanka burning down Christian churches...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Now if Christians (I only pick on them because I am more familiar with the religion) would follow one simple teaching:

"love thy enemy"

Don't you think the world would be better? Since many do not follow this teaching, I would have to say they are not Christians but have a distorted faith to suit organized religion.

Better yet, why have any enemies at all?

If everyone could treat each other with kindness and respect, there should be no enemies, nor wars, nor suffering...

But you and I know that can never be achieved...not with religious or secular notions...or can it?

 

[I think not]

Now if Christians (I only pick on them because I am more familiar with the religion) would follow one simple teaching:

"love thy enemy"

Don't you think the world would be better? Since many do not follow this teaching, I would have to say they are not Christians but have a distorted faith to suit organized religion.

Better yet, why have any enemies at all?

If everyone could treat each other with kindness and respect, there should be no enemies, nor wars, nor suffering...

But you and I know that can never be achieved...not with religious or secular notions...or can it?

Humans have a long way to go in having no enemies of each other. I think religion can play a role, providing they each understand the teachings. I know of no religion that says KILL the non-believers. That is human intolerance and fear.

 

[Said1]

You do not have believe any God to be a good person. But you can always learn a few things from religion without having faith.

True, and what I've learned from religion is that intolerance is hard-coded into the very fibre of the belief system...

I don[t know about that, Buhdism (sp?) specifically teaches that other religions that teach a respect for life are all different paths towards the same goal (more or less - LOL). Other religions teach that their path is the only way into heaven/paradise/nirvana.

...and yet there are Buddhists in Sri Lanka burning down Christian churches...

True, but those are the extremists and obviously not following the word of their religion - like all extremists. If people could avoid the trap of arrogance and judgement like they are supposed to, people would get along much better.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Humans have a long way to go in having no enemies of each other. I think religion can play a role, providing they each understand the teachings. I know of no religion that says KILL the non-believers. That is human intolerance and fear.

Deuteronomy:

13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth

13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

In the Quran is written:

4 Women:

91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

and

101 And when ye go forth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.

 

[I think not]

Humans have a long way to go in having no enemies of each other. I think religion can play a role, providing they each understand the teachings. I know of no religion that says KILL the non-believers. That is human intolerance and fear.

Deuteronomy:

13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth

13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

In the Quran is written:

4 Women:

91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

and

101 And when ye go forth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.

Vanni, I have no idea about the Quran, but Deuteronomy recapitulates events that had allegedly taken place. It is not a teaching on how one should behave.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Vanni, I have no idea about the Quran, but Deuteronomy recapitulates events that had allegedly taken place. It is not a teaching on how one should behave.

Actually...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuteronomy

Origin of the name Deuteronomy

The English name, "Deuteronomy", comes from the name which the book bears in the Septuagint (Δευτερονόμιον) and in the Vulgate (Deuteronomium). This is based upon the erroneous Septuagint rendering of "mishnah ha-torah ha-zot" (xvii. 18 ), which grammatically can mean only "a repetition [that is, a copy] of this law," but which is rendered by the Septuagint τὸ Δευτερονόμιον τοῦτο, as though the expression meant "this repetition of the law." While, however, the name is thus a mistranslation, it is not inappropriate; for the book does include, by the side of much new matter, a repetition or reformulation of a large part of the laws found in the non-priestly sections of Exodus.

So we find that in Deuteronomy is in fact a retelling of some of the laws and punishments as set forth in Exodus, with the addition of some new ones...

 

[I think not]

Yes. A re-telling of events that allegedly occured. This is not to say they preach to go and kill your wife if shes humping the neighbor.

It doesn't happen that way. I'm not Jewish, but I have attended a sermon and I have seen nothing that would indicate that they teach to kill.

I have also been to Christian churches, many times, I have heard nothing about Christianity promoting death to non-believers.

Now, do priests do that? I am very sure they do. Many people confuse priests with religion.

For example, the Pope is considered to be Gods representative on earth. Really? And I suppose God told him to preach from the lap of luxury also. This is the part I despise about religion. What the religious institutions have done with it.

They take people who have faith and twist that faith into "God fearing" people. If a Christian actually fears God, then they have listened but not understood.

Since Christianity was all about love, love thy neighbor, love thy enemy, religious leaders have slapped into all this love, you can only love the opposite sex etc....

This is why I tend to differentiate between the institutions of religion with someones faith.