Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide

#juan

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Sorry L.G.

I thought that article was quite convincing. Do you think you are qualified to stake your grandkid's lives and their kid's lives on what you know about global warming? I'm an engineer, and I don't feel qualified to question the scientists who say that global warming is a man-made problem, and that it will get worse. Given that, the only reasonable response is to cut greenhouse gasses as much as we can and as soon as we can.
 

Tonington

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For the life of me, I'll never understand the "rationalization" when it comes to this issue. No one argues that we shouldn't cut back pollution. Maybe we ought to stop calling it a greenhouse gas, as anything associated with the colour green has people seeing red. Do people out there think we should just cut our pollution in every other way except that costly pesky gas carbon dioxide? Or maybe it just sounds good to say we want less pollution. Look at any standard definition of pollution and seriously tell me that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases don't fit the bill.

The question really is, what on earth do these people have against environmental ethics? Maybe it's because carbon dioxide is a natural substance. Or maybe it's the fact that it seems so costly to do anything about it. Or maybe some people just don't want to face the fact that their own actions have far reaching consequences.

I know the idea of a biosphere is very complex and a tough tough application to run. Do you think anyone would ever think it's a good idea to increase heat trapping gases in a biosphere? How long would it last before the system crosses the threshold into chaos?


I'd like all the naysayers to seriously think about this, let those neurons do their thing. Given the earth as a whole is a complex web and knowing what we know, what makes anyone think that taking a resource from the ground, burning it, and releasing that trapped energy into the atmosphere won't have effects. We know we can't apply nitrogen and phosphorous to agricultural fields continuosly without ramifications, we know the same is true for natural products like manure. We know we can't release natural compounds like cyanide into water courses as effluent without problems. We can't emit many compounds freely without causing acid rain. We certainly can't emit man-made halogenated products without negative impacts. In fact I'll go on record that any human product of manufacturing when released willy nilly will have impacts on the eco-system. So why oh why do we have the blinders on when it comes to the (choke) greenhouse gases? Do we have a penchant to protect the poor ole oil companies? Are our governments powerless to help employees when we have Alberta posting a $7 Billion dollar surplus? Or maybe the whole problem is in the blind fools following the loud mouthed fools, towing some party line like a seal clapping for more herring treats.

Try to find a thread on this site where the environment is being discussed and no political party is mentioned. Hell I've done it, I've dished it to to them all, even the Green party which from my rants you might think was equivalent to a blastpheming priest. Difference as I see it is I hold no allegience to any party.

It's good that people can exercise their critical thought and question science. If not I'd think we were heading for trouble. I've probably wrote too much now and lost some peoples attention.

Seriously think about this, you wouldn't pollute your house with constant toxic gases, even if they were below the toxic concentrations. You wouldn't dump chemicals in your back yard. How is the air we all breathe any less connected to you or I? I've probably inhaled the hot air you belch out, and it goes vice versa. We're all down wind from somebody.

Edit: For the record I don't think the climate change is completely our fault, I do think without question we're helping it along.
 
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CDNBear

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From Times Online
Anyone else notice that this picture is obviously from an Asian counrty. So that love sensational billow of demonic GW smoke, will not be cured by the Kyoto Protocol.
 

#juan

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There is another possibility.

Global warming causes greenhouse gas. The following charts show clearly that a rise in global temperatures brings a corresponding rise in CO2 levels. Can there be any doubt?...:):laughing7:



 

CDNBear

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There is another possibility.

Global warming causes greenhouse gas. The following charts show clearly that a rise in global temperatures brings a corresponding rise in CO2 levels. Can there be any doubt?...:):laughing7:



Makes sense, the oceanic volcanic activity that has been conveniently left out of all major GW reports, could very well be the cause of this effect. Water vapour being a cause of GW. Do I really need to explain what happens when molten lava hits the water?
 

#juan

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Global warming causes greenhouse gas. The following charts show clearly that a rise in global temperatures brings a corresponding rise in CO2 levels. Can there be any doubt?...:icon_smile::laughing7:

It was supposed to be a joke...:|
 

CDNBear

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Hey, I never claimed to be a scientist, lmao, you got me good juan.

So take out the makes sense and I still stand by the rest. lmao.

Good one.
 

Avro

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Anyone else notice that this picture is obviously from an Asian counrty. So that love sensational billow of demonic GW smoke, will not be cured by the Kyoto Protocol.

Why won't it be? Does Kyoto end after 2012 or does it get improved?

"Can't be done" is the new moto of the right, or perhaps it has always been the moto of the right.....unless it's about bombing something. :roll:
 

jimmoyer

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Seriously think about this, you wouldn't pollute your house with constant toxic gases, even if they were below the toxic concentrations. You wouldn't dump chemicals in your back yard. How is the air we all breathe any less connected to you or I? I've probably inhaled the hot air you belch out, and it goes vice versa. We're all down wind from somebody.

Edit: For the record I don't think the climate change is completely our fault, I do think without question we're helping it along.
---------------------------------------------------Tonington----------------------------------------------

Good post Tonington.

Overall very good post.

Only caveat, you may be misunderstanding the complaints of those
suspicious about the high priests of global warming and how they
intend to correct the problem.
 
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CDNBear

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Why won't it be? Does Kyoto end after 2012 or does it get improved?

"Can't be done" is the new moto of the right, or perhaps it has always been the moto of the right.....unless it's about bombing something. :roll:
I really don care what the right believes. Kyoto has even been call impossible by the left.

It is nothing more then a global welfare pyramid sceme. I want Canada to be no part of.

It does not address the problems of environmental polution on the whole, it merely seeks to divert cash from wealthy nations to seemingly poorer ones.

Kyoto is gabage now and forever will be.

Give me a Protocol that addresses, toxins in oceans, lakes, rivers, ground water tables, soil and etc. one that addresses the impact of Oceanic polution and its effects on fish stocks, then I'll throw my back and my support into it.

Kyoto=Toilet Paper.
 

Avro

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I really don care what the right believes. Kyoto has even been call impossible by the left.

It is nothing more then a global welfare pyramid sceme. I want Canada to be no part of.

It does not address the problems of environmental polution on the whole, it merely seeks to divert cash from wealthy nations to seemingly poorer ones.

Kyoto is gabage now and forever will be.

Give me a Protocol that addresses, toxins in oceans, lakes, rivers, ground water tables, soil and etc. one that addresses the impact of Oceanic polution and its effects on fish stocks, then I'll throw my back and my support into it.

Kyoto=Toilet Paper.

Sorry, but I think you are wrong and Canada should be involved.
 

CDNBear

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Sorry, but I think you are wrong and Canada should be involved.
In what? Kyoto or putting the brakes on GW?

And don't be sorry, you have every right to your opinion, from what I have seen, it seems to be yours, which is refreshing from your side of the fence.
 

jimmoyer

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It is nothing more then a global welfare pyramid sceme. I want Canada to be no part of.

It does not address the problems of environmental polution on the whole, it merely seeks to divert cash from wealthy nations to seemingly poorer ones.

Kyoto is gabage now and forever will be.
----------------------------------------------------------CDNBear--------------------------------------------

Agreed.

Local planning commissions and local zoning boards are the first responders to
environmental issues. It is there we should focus.
 

Tonington

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Good post Tonington.

Overall very good post.

Only caveat, you may be misunderstanding the complaints of those
suspicious about the high priests of global warming and how they
intend to correct the problem.

Thanks for the compliments Jim.

I do understand the complaints of those suspicious of the issue. It's understandable given the political nature this discussion has evolved into. I have reservations as well. I also resent the way Kyoto is being used as the only mechanism to tackle the problem. All this time spent arguing with one another, a colassal waste of time and energy. We could be slowly picking away at the problem, piece by piece, instead there is an argument for major change and the economic catastrophe which would halt the momentum of the green movement.

If you recall in another thread, there was discussion of our ingenuity and our bloated ego, thinking we have as much power to change the situation, better or worse. I fully believe that we do have the ingenuity to integrate the arguments and find common ground, it's the will to make concessions that I have doubts over.

Initially some may have noticed I was quite harsh on the issue, appearing like some organic tea drinking, hemp wearing peacenik. The reality is I was frustrated that there still appeared to be some doubt that there is a problem. I'm equally frustrated with greenies who want to make large sweeping changes and use the same science we all look at, so much perversion from both sides amongst the hard liners. There is a problem. Politics is clouding common sense, emotion is doing the same. Not earth breaking news I know, it happens with every issue.

Slow and steady, but I think it needs to start soon. Particularly in Asia where economic growth is booming.
 
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jimmoyer

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Initially some may have noticed I was quite harsh on the issue, appearing like some organic tea drinking, hemp wearing peacenik. The reality is I was frustrated that there still appeared to be some doubt that there is a problem. I'm equally frustrated with greenies who want to make large sweeping changes and use the same science we all look at, so much perversion from both sides amongst the hard liners.

------------------------------------Tonington----------------------------------------------------------

Again. Good Post. Agreed.

I see more real marriage of business and environment on the local level of planning commissions
and zoning boards where environmental impact statements must be submitted by law --- and
in the states most developers are required to give back something to the community, like
a recreation park or widening of the streets on top of fulfilling polution and drainage requirements.

This started in the 70s, revolutionizing business accounting, where included in the costs
of doing business is the impact on the environment.

This is where the real stuff happens.
 

Tonington

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I also read a while back that insurance companies are even starting to direct customers to producers of green technologies when assessing claims. Maybe a ploy to drive rates up by purchasing more expensive materials, but it's a good start I think.
 

CDNBear

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It is nothing more then a global welfare pyramid sceme. I want Canada to be no part of.

It does not address the problems of environmental polution on the whole, it merely seeks to divert cash from wealthy nations to seemingly poorer ones.

Kyoto is gabage now and forever will be.
----------------------------------------------------------CDNBear--------------------------------------------

Agreed.

Local planning commissions and local zoning boards are the first responders to
environmental issues. It is there we should focus.
This is where it gets sticky and mucky. Local administrations do not always see the forest for the trees. Then we have the NIMBY's.

They have no problem leveling charges of ignorance and stupidity on anyone that dissagrees with the whole "its all man fault" or "Kyoto's the end all". But when it comes to green tech, like garbage incinaration or the like, they have no need of seeing it on their way into town, from the drivers seat of their Escalade.
 

L Gilbert

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Slow and steady, but I think it needs to start soon. Particularly in Asia where economic growth is booming.
Yup. Personally, I think the best way to get everone's serious attention and RATIONAL thoughts about the issue is to hit em in the wallet. And the higher the degree of abuse gets the abuser a higher hit in the wallet. And the money goes towards grants and whatnot for R&D of alternatives and the like.