I should add that, as far as bigotry and small-mindedness goes, in the Outaouais, the Anglophones win hands-down! I've seen very little anti-English prejudice, but we have institutionalized anti-French prejudice here: just listen to our frothing right-wingers on CFRA radio!!!
French ??
- Thread starter floss
- Start date
Good post Huck. I used to dislike Quebecers, because I was under the impression that they disliked the 'Anglais' and would intentionally avoid speaking english to offend them.
In the past few years I have vacationed in rural Quebec and found I really changed my attitude. I took French immersion years and years ago, so I can get by with a little difficulty. I had always been hesitant to speak French, however, because I was self conscious about it, and not fully comfortable in the language. Some of the people I ran into up there knew almost no English. It really sank home that when they spoke French to me it was not to insult me, but because they were equally as uncomfortable with English as I was with French. It seems obvious to me now, but out of ignorance I used to be insulted when they did not want to use english in speaking with me.
In the past few years I have vacationed in rural Quebec and found I really changed my attitude. I took French immersion years and years ago, so I can get by with a little difficulty. I had always been hesitant to speak French, however, because I was self conscious about it, and not fully comfortable in the language. Some of the people I ran into up there knew almost no English. It really sank home that when they spoke French to me it was not to insult me, but because they were equally as uncomfortable with English as I was with French. It seems obvious to me now, but out of ignorance I used to be insulted when they did not want to use english in speaking with me.
floss said:
Diana, so many people are actually telling you that moving to Ottawa you might need to be bi-lingual.. try living in Quebec... about 25-40 minutes away from Ottawa... and not knowing any french.
French is a hard languauge to learn. If your up for the challenge... take it.
So many opportunities lost - when you think that most children learn one language before they are a year old - enough to communicate in it - why not two at the same time?
Taking language along with all of the sentence structure and parsing and boring stuff absolutely ruins the joy of learning how to communicate in a language without all the rules attached.
Even English is boring when we have to learn how to write sentences....bah!
Choice given I would learn French over Spanish any day. Spanish takes forever to say a very few English words, and one has to learn to adopt sort of a speech impediment to get the correct pronunciation. It is a clumsy language compared with French which to me is beautiful.
Oh dear have I started a war with Mexico? I hope not.
Taking language along with all of the sentence structure and parsing and boring stuff absolutely ruins the joy of learning how to communicate in a language without all the rules attached.
Even English is boring when we have to learn how to write sentences....bah!
Choice given I would learn French over Spanish any day. Spanish takes forever to say a very few English words, and one has to learn to adopt sort of a speech impediment to get the correct pronunciation. It is a clumsy language compared with French which to me is beautiful.
Oh dear have I started a war with Mexico? I hope not.
Re: RE: French ??
Undereducated?
Why is it that the est of the world has to bow down to English?
Most native speakers of English, even among the most educated at times, are strictly unilingual, yet no one looks down on them for that and can acknowledge their erudition none-the-less. Yet if a non-native speaker of English is unilingual, regardless of his level of education, he must be considered uneducated?
Well then, practically the entire population of the city of Quebec (whith the exception of many living in or near the old city) are "uneducated", along with nearly everyone in Charlevoix, Roberval and most China! And heck, even some in Montreal. But thank God the native sepeakers of English are educated.
Nosferax said:
Undereducated?
Why is it that the est of the world has to bow down to English?
Most native speakers of English, even among the most educated at times, are strictly unilingual, yet no one looks down on them for that and can acknowledge their erudition none-the-less. Yet if a non-native speaker of English is unilingual, regardless of his level of education, he must be considered uneducated?
Well then, practically the entire population of the city of Quebec (whith the exception of many living in or near the old city) are "uneducated", along with nearly everyone in Charlevoix, Roberval and most China! And heck, even some in Montreal. But thank God the native sepeakers of English are educated.
floss said:
Honestly, I see no reason for you to apologize for not speaking French (it is a difficult language (but it's one of my native languages
) as long as you don't expet them to speak English any better than you speak French.
Huck said:floss said:
Hi Floss,
I come from Quebec city, where it is 98% french speaking, but where a lot of english speaking tourists come. Before i start, it is important to say that people in Quebec city like the english very much (perhaps contrary to what some may think).
It is true that 'some' english speaking people will always assume that you speak their language (lazy), and will address people in the city in english, without making any effort to speak the local language. This leaves the burden of processing a foreign and complicated language to the local people. This lack of effort to try to speak french is sometimes seen as a lack of respect, and arrogant; this is a reason why some french get mad at the english and resent their manners.
But, this being said, i can assure you that when an english person comes up and tries to speak some french, even a little, the locals will love it and have very high respect for that person. Obviously, this english person will receive the warmest welcome, even if all he/she said was "bonjour".
I short, the french do not apreciate the lazyness of 'some' english people, and trying a little french is better than not trying at all...
I strongly suggest you learn french, i personally speak 4 languages and it certainly alters the way you think and see the world. Your possibilities will greatly open as well, especially in europe where french is a major language.
Good luck!
Good post. I've noticed this here too. Many tourists in China will draw, dance, mime, and speak whatever words of Chinese they can to get the message across. And English speakers? they'll speak loudly, slowly, enunciate clearly, and just act condescendingly overall. I've seen it so often, a few times I like like walking up and smacking guy across the head!
There was another one getting ticked off one day 'cause the locals couldn't understand English, and treating people in the same condescending manner. I noticed it before he noticed me, so when he came up to me, I just started speaking whatever Chinese I knew, and gave him the option to speak in French or Esperanto. He just looked at me dumbfounded and started speaking to me in the same conscending manner, thinking that if he spoke loudly and slowly enough, that I would just somehow miraculously understand.
Now don't get me wrong. If I see an Englsih speaker making the same effort as otehr foreigners, I'll be more than willing to help him out. But if he's going to act as if it's the world's duty to speak English, then mi tute ne scipovas la anglan. Pardonu.
Re: RE: French ??
True. If one analizes the English language objectively, he'll find it pretty difficult to learn. Things aren't spelt as they are pronounced, thousands of exceptions, synonyms, dialects, myriad prepositions to memorise, a slew of collective nouns, each appoined to its particular field, etc. etc. etc. So just as English speakers find it hard to learn French, so French speakers find it equally difficult to learn English.
MMMike said:
True. If one analizes the English language objectively, he'll find it pretty difficult to learn. Things aren't spelt as they are pronounced, thousands of exceptions, synonyms, dialects, myriad prepositions to memorise, a slew of collective nouns, each appoined to its particular field, etc. etc. etc. So just as English speakers find it hard to learn French, so French speakers find it equally difficult to learn English.
PiiNkyy-__ said:floss said:
Diana, so many people are actually telling you that moving to Ottawa you might need to be bi-lingual.. try living in Quebec... about 25-40 minutes away from Ottawa... and not knowing any french.
French is a hard languauge to learn. If your up for the challenge... take it.
Quebec is about 5 min from Ottawa, depending on how fast you drive.
When I was in Ottawa I didn't really need it until I went to Hall. Then just taking a frech course will not help you because they pretend not to understand you still. lol. So yeah either don't bother our learn it until you think it
I'm french by birth (acadien) I now live in the city of scarborough, in toronto we now have over 225000 french speaking i say that because most of them are born outside of canada, in ontario as per section 23 of the canadian charter of right we french have the right to educate our children in the french public or seperate board of education only problem is we have no schools, in scarborough we have only one elementary school no secondairy and the one elementary we have is a re zoned industrial unit in the middle of an industrial park with a 60klm speed out front with all of the things that go on in industrial parks like 18 wheelers all day long and bad air,
we have been trying to get a proper school for six years and nobody want to listen we have a basement for a gym, so now they send the kids to the marlvern community centre yes the one that is in the middle of the worst gang zone in the city, cbc even made a documentary , we also have children in a basement class last year with no windows. if this seems wrong to you please send letters to the minister of education to express your outrage.
It seems it ok with them to put 100s of millions every years into french immersion programs at english schools for what we now beleive is for the morjority french children that have no school in the french system so they attend the immersion programs at english schools (also taking most of the spots of the english kids that want to learn french as a second lauguage) this is not right because at that point these children when they grow up and have kids will not have the right to a french system education in ontario please tell me what you think about this.
we have been trying to get a proper school for six years and nobody want to listen we have a basement for a gym, so now they send the kids to the marlvern community centre yes the one that is in the middle of the worst gang zone in the city, cbc even made a documentary , we also have children in a basement class last year with no windows. if this seems wrong to you please send letters to the minister of education to express your outrage.
It seems it ok with them to put 100s of millions every years into french immersion programs at english schools for what we now beleive is for the morjority french children that have no school in the french system so they attend the immersion programs at english schools (also taking most of the spots of the english kids that want to learn french as a second lauguage) this is not right because at that point these children when they grow up and have kids will not have the right to a french system education in ontario please tell me what you think about this.
in ottawa you won't have difficulties with french, but you will have difficulties with your english in neighbour city: hull.