France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Blackleaf

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France's choice of a rooster as its mascot is believed to come from the resemblance between France's pre-Roman name, "Gaul," and the Latin word for rooster, gallus. But beyond this wordplay, there may be other similarities between a rooster's behavior and the image of France conveyed by some of its leaders.

Each morning, the rooster proudly sings out its presence to the world, which it seems to rule at that moment. Yet a rooster does not have much for itself: it's not particularly clever, pretty or feared; it's not even much of a bird, as it can't even really fly. And it definitely doesn't rule the world; expect maybe for a few other female chickens and the pile of manure on which it stands for its morning performance.

What a relevant bucolic metaphor of France's foreign policy, some might be tempted to say, with regards to France's wobbling in the latest war in Lebanon.


Such hesitation was nowhere to be seen during the early phase of intense diplomatic activity to stop the fight between Israel and the Hezbollah militia. France was at the forefront of efforts, determined to end a conflict, the main victim of which was Lebanon, a country with many historical ties to France.

France spoke loud and clear to impose its views on the international community, and drafted UN Resolution 1701, enabling a fragile truce in a conflict that has ruined 15 years of Lebanese efforts to recover from its civil war.

There are several reasons why the international community was ready to accept France's solution to the settlement of this deadly conflict: its deep knowledge of the Arab world and old ties with the region for one; its reasonable approach to resolving the conflict by obtaining a cease-fire first, followed by a political agreement between the parties; finally, the dispatch of U.N. forces was another reason, the fact that France holds one of the five permanent seats at the U.N. Security Council, with a veto right on any U.N. decision.

But what enabled the French to have an edge in the heated diplomatic discussions was probably its pledge to provide the United Nations Interim Forces in Lebanon (UNIFIL) with a substantial amount of force: up to 5,000 troops some had assumed.

But the two weeks that followed the vote of resolution 1701 have been a succession of French wobbling and uncomfortable silences. All of a sudden, conditions were not met for UNIFIL to safely fulfill its mission, as the U.N. resolution, of which France was the main author, was too vague, especially with regards to the chain of command and engagement rules of U.N. forces. Moreover, UNIFIL should not be dominated by any single country, but should result from a balanced contribution of European and Muslim nations. France seemed to be reconsidering its commitment in Lebanon from several thousand troops, to a mere 400.

In fact, all of these arguments are legitimate, especially for France, which has paid a high price for its past commitments in peacekeeping missions: in 1983, 58 French soldiers died precisely in Lebanon, after a suicide attack on their Beirut headquarter by Shiite Muslim terrorists that would eventually morph into the Hezbollah militia. During the Bosnia war, French peacekeeping forces suffered many losses and humiliating situations in which prohibitive engagement rules and a complex chain of command made it impossible to protect civilians, or even respond to hostile fire.

All of these subjects of caution seem to have been disregarded by President Chirac during the early period of France's diplomatic activity. After eleven years at France's top position, Chirac is about to leave a disastrous legacy, both domestically with a growing social disparity in French society, and internationally with the French refusal of the European Constitution and the resulting setback for the European construction.

To Chirac, the Lebanese conflict may have appeared first as a personal opportunity to regain some popularity, before seeing the potential threats to French forces. Hence a ridiculous situation where a President promotes a solution that puts its own armed forces at risk.

So is the morning over and the rooster back in its henhouse? Not yet. After intense pressure from the international community, President Chirac appeared on television Aug. 24 to announce a firm 2,000 troop commitment to UNIFIL, arguing he had received enough guarantees about the role of the peacekeeping forces.

Indeed, France had no other choice but to dramatically increase its commitment. Not doing so would have endangered the precarious ceasefire and seriously jeopardized the U.N.'s credibility and capacity to solve international conflicts. Moreover France's move backward would have been a tremendous blow to Chirac's foreign policy: how could France, a country that has always been the utmost advocate of a multi-polar world, ruled by international rights, and enforced by the UN, possibly drop the UN at such a crucial moment? How could this attitude be consistent with France's opposition to the U.S. about Iraq in 2003, when it was the most ardent supporter of control and sanctions within the frame of the U.N.?

The peace process in Lebanon seems to be back on track and let's hope France's much awaited commitment will trigger a momentum leading to more commitments from other nations. But for France the damage is already done, due to the last gestures of an ill-motivated president that lead to a catastrophic sequencing of its diplomacy.

english.ohmynews.com . . .=
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Blackleaf said:
cortex said:
fuzzylogix said:
Blackleaf- where are England's troops?

The British troops are in Iraq fighting an illegal war and failing miserably as expected.

The mission in lebanon is a legal one with a humananitarian aspect. Its objectives are fair and noble and sanctioned by the international community.

And THAT is NOT the kind of mission rogue states such as the UK are interested in.

That kind of mission should be manned by a superior peoples--superior to the british anyway--The French, The Belgians, the Italians, the Spanish, The Finns etc.

Thank you britain for sending ZERO troops to Lebanon---afterall it WAS the UKs SHAMEFULL mismanagement and COWARDLY retreat from its protectorate of PALESTINE that to a LARGE degree created the intractable
situation we have now--

or did you think we forgot that

The UK--desparately engaging ONLY in missions with the US---AFRAID to partipate --otherwise----falling shamefully behind the civilized world

I can hear that poodle yelping now..

Oh--and did I forget to say COWARDLY retreat from palestine

---no I did remember

I did remember to say COWARDLY retreat from palestine

yes--

I think the word was COWARDLY


Come back here when you can spell and have the correct grammar.

As for cowardly, I can just laugh at you Canadians because despite having an army of sorts you only ever use it for peacekeeping. The only time you ever go to war is when the British, your imperial masters, force you to.
'

Blackleaf, you are a moron.

Please, shut the hell up with your Canadian bashing bullshit. Most Canadians don't give two shits of how amazing you think your country/army to be. As for the Imperial Masters... you are crazy if you think people give 2 shits about what tony blair and your wrinkled queen think.

In Conclusion. you are a jack ass. If you want to bash Canadians, go to one of many britan forums. Take your dental impaired smile elsewhere.
 

Hotshot

Electoral Member
May 31, 2006
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Blackleaf said:
As for cowardly, I can just laugh at you Canadians because despite having an army of sorts you only ever use it for peacekeeping. The only time you ever go to war is when the British, your imperial masters, force you to.

Well at least Canada didn't get sucked in by bushinski and his illegal war. I'm sure glad we didn't follow the Brits on that one!!
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
As for cowardly, I can just laugh at you Canadians because despite having an army of sorts you only ever use it for peacekeeping. The only time you ever go to war is when the British, your imperial masters, force you to.

Well at least Canada didn't get sucked in by bushinski and his illegal war. I'm sure glad we didn't follow the Brits on that one!!

*AHEM*

I find that a bit of a rude generalisation ACTUALLY, the VAST, and I mean VAST MAJORITY of the british population was TOTALLY and is STILL TOTALLY against going to war with the US, do you actually believe there was ever a referendem?....NO BODY here believed in WMD....NO-ONE

I realise Blackleaf bangs on and on about some frankly useless and irrelevent drivel, and to be honest, a lot of it could be offensive to you, but to generalise all the biritsh because of him upsetting you is frankly wrong.

Tony Blair followed like a pet poodle, NOT US, we only live and die by those choices...have some sense...who do you think we are? Americans?, we dont have unblinding loyalty to our leader you know!
 

Hotshot

Electoral Member
May 31, 2006
330
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Daz_Hockey said:
Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
As for cowardly, I can just laugh at you Canadians because despite having an army of sorts you only ever use it for peacekeeping. The only time you ever go to war is when the British, your imperial masters, force you to.

Well at least Canada didn't get sucked in by bushinski and his illegal war. I'm sure glad we didn't follow the Brits on that one!!

*AHEM*

I find that a bit of a rude generalisation ACTUALLY, the VAST, and I mean VAST MAJORITY of the british population was TOTALLY and is STILL TOTALLY against going to war with the US, do you actually believe there was ever a referendem?....NO BODY here believed in WMD....NO-ONE

I realise Blackleaf bangs on and on about some frankly useless and irrelevent drivel, and to be honest, a lot of it could be offensive to you, but to generalise all the biritsh because of him upsetting you is frankly wrong.

Tony Blair followed like a pet poodle, NOT US, we only live and die by those choices...have some sense...who do you think we are? Americans?, we dont have unblinding loyalty to our leader you know!

Well I would think more than the simple majority of the house of commons must have believed in WMD, otherwise they would have voted against tony's puppydog actions.
 

cortex

Electoral Member
Aug 3, 2006
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They knew full well that there no WMDs. But the British are not exactly people of integrity--Despite what they think of themselves. Even today the horrific atrocities committed by the British Empire are largely unknown to the British public--or barely enter their corrupted self image.

anyway to get back to the Iraq issue

Example-1--Stay out of it

Canada--The majority of the population was against going to war with Iraq( largely due to QUEBEC I might add) seeing as a child could see through the lies presented by the UK and UK.

And out government made the right decision to stay out of that disaster.

example 2--Get out of it

Spain. The Fascist government of Aznar sided with the UK and US, promoting the case for war against Iraq despite the opposition of well 90% of the Spanish population.

Aznar made the wrong decision and the spanish people paid for it.
BUT---Unlike many countires they CORRECTED the mistake, threw out the fascist poodle ass kisser Aznar and elected a responsible government that in effect said---Phuck off to the US. --good work boys


example 3--get in it and stay -ie we can do no wrong

The UK. They made a mistake, they deny that they
made it . they claim they are against the war. they do nothing to stop it--not even a wimpy protest now and then. --well of course it takes COURAGE to admitt the wrongs of ones culture and even more to DO something about it.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
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RE: France to send 2,000

so you think we don't know about the cruel and hainous acts Britain commited?, like Kenya?, India?, North America, Africa, Australasia?.

Yes we are fully-aware of how cruel we were all over the world, to most people in the UK empire is actually a dirty word, you cannot keep punishing my generation for the sins of the great-grandfather, that makes you no better than Robert Mugabe.

And your hatred of the UK is as profoundly stupid as Blackleaf's over-bearing love for it, maybe you should get a room....and Andem, if your reading this....doesn't cortex's writing here sound worse than the other fella?.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

=

Blackleaf, you are a moron.

Please, shut the hell up with your Canadian bashing bullshit.

Who was bashing whose country first? I think you'll find that Cortez bashed Britain before I bashed Canada.



As for the Imperial Masters... you are crazy if you think people give 2 shits about what tony blair and your wrinkled queen think.

At least you know who our Prime Minister is. 90% of Brits don't know who Canada's PM is. 90% of us don't know anything about Canada whatsoever.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
Well at least Canada didn't get sucked in by bushinski and his illegal war.


That's probably because your military, unlike the US, Britain, Australia, Italy, Spain, Poland etc isn't capable of fighting a war anywhere in the world. It's just used to "keep the peace" nowadays.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

cortex said:
Unlike many countires they CORRECTED the mistake, threw out the fascist poodle ass kisser Aznar and elected a responsible government that in effect said---Phuck off to the US. --good work boys

You mean as soon as Al Qaeda attacked Spain they then chickened out and pulled out their troops?

Whereas the British were attacked on 7th July and still kept their troops in Iraq. So what does that tell you about the mentality of Spain compared to that of the British?

At the end of the day, no matter what you say about the invasion of Iraq, we ousted Saddam. And then when all the troubles and the fighting in Iraq is over, it will be the three great Anglo-Saxon powers - the British, Americans and Australians - who the Iraqis will be thanking, not the Canadians. In ten or twenty years time when Iraq is peaceful and democratic we'd be able to be proud of what we did there.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000

Daz_Hockey said:
so you think we don't know about the cruel and hainous acts Britain commited?, like Kenya?, India?, North America, Africa, Australasia?.

God, you're embarrassing. The British Empire, compared to the French Empire, the German Reich, the Russian Empire, the Roman Empire etc was a benign empire.

If I was an African during the time of the British and French Empire, if I could choose whether to have been ruled by the British or ruled by the French I definitely wouldn't choose the French and be ruled under Emperor Napoleon. Give me rule by Queen Victoria anyday.

If you look at former British colonies, most of them are rich countries - the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore.

But what of French colonies? They are all poor - Chad, Algeria, Lebanon. Niger is a former French colony and is the poorest country in the world.

Whereas the British built schools, hospitals, roads etc in their colonies, the French just stole their colonies' natural wealth.

Compared to the past atrocities commited by the French and the Germans, Britain is a saint.

And goodness knows what Britain's past has to do with this thread anyway.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Daz_Hockey said:
Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
I find that a bit of a rude generalisation ACTUALLY, the VAST, and I mean VAST MAJORITY of the british population was TOTALLY and is STILL TOTALLY against going to war with the US

The British think the invasion of Iraq was the right thing to do.


WHAT THE BRITISH THINK ABOUT THE IRAQ WAR

SECTION ONE: TRUST IN GOVERNMENT
1) War - right or wrong

Thinking about the build-up to the Iraq war and everything that has happened since, do you think that taking military action was the right thing to do, or the wrong thing to do?

Right: 48%
Wrong: 43%
Don't know: 9%

2) Was the war legal?

Legal: 37%
Illegal: 39%
Don't know: 24%


3) Did the government lie about WMD?

In the run up to the war with Iraq, do you think Tony Blair and his government...

Told the truth: 29%
Exaggerated but did not lie: 40%
Lied: 22%
Don't know: 8%


4) Trust in Blair after the war

Trust him more: 4%
Trust him less: 42%
Makes no difference: 52%
Don't know: 2%

5) Satisfaction with Tony Blair

Satisfied: 37%
Dissatisfied: 57%
Don't know: 6%

6) Who would you trust to decide next time?

If the British government had to decide again whether to take military action, who would you trust to make the best decision?

Tony Blair: 32%
Michael Howard: 22%
Charles Kennedy: 17%
Don't know/ None: 28%

7) Performance

Thinking of the following and their performance over the Iraq war, can you mark them out of 10, with 10 meaning they have done an excellent job and with 0 meaning a terrible job:

British forces: 8.3
US military: 6.6
BBC: 6.4
UN: 5.8
British intelligence: 5.6
Tony Blair: 4.9
Clare Short: 4.4
George W Bush: 4.3
France: 3.9
(Average scores out of 10)


SECTION TWO: JUSTIFICATION FOR WAR
8 ) Security

Do you think the war with Iraq has or has not contributed to the long-term security...

Of the UK?

Has: 34%
Has not: 55%
Don't know: 11%


Of the US?

Has: 57%
Has not: 40%
Don't know: 3%


9) What do you consider the main reason for the war?

Credibility of UN: 3%
WMD: 10%
Human rights: 27%
Oil: 15%
International terrorism: 15%
UK's relationship with USA: 26%


10) Bush and Blair

Is Britain's closeness to America...

Good for Britain: 45%
Bad for Britain: 20%
Makes no difference: 32%
Don't know: 3%


Is Tony Blair's closeness to George W Bush...

Good for Britain: 25%
Bad for Britain: 29%
Makes no difference: 42%
Don't know: 3%

(Half the sample were asked the first question, other half were asked the second question)


SECTION THREE: WAR ON TERROR
11) Justification

In which of the following circumstances would you support going to war with another country?

Support war against another country if they...

Attacked the UK: 87%
Attacked an ally: 68%
Possessed WMD: 59%
Harboured terrorists: 51%
Committed atrocities: 55%
Don't know: 6%


12) Intervention

With regard to military intervention, do you agree or disagree with Tony Blair who said that "in certain clear circumstances, we [should] intervene, even though we are not directly threatened."?

Agree: 49%
Disagree: 45%
Don't know: 6%


13) Should Britain use military force...

Only when authorised by the UN: 46%
When in Britain's interests even without UN: 48%
Don't know: 6%

14) Europe or USA?

In the future when military intervention is being considered, should Tony Blair side more closely with the USA or with France and Germany?

USA: 46%
France/Germany: 34%
Don't know: 21%


15) 'Axis of evil'

George Bush described North Korea, Iran and Iraq as "an axis of evil". Do you believe the UK government could convince you to support military intervention against Iran and North Korea?

Could you support military action against Iran?

Yes: 26%
No: 66%
Don't know: 8%


Against North Korea?

Yes: 24%
No: 67%
Don't know: 8%



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3513704.stm
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Blackleaf said:
Daz_Hockey said:
Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
I find that a bit of a rude generalisation ACTUALLY, the VAST, and I mean VAST MAJORITY of the british population was TOTALLY and is STILL TOTALLY against going to war with the US

The British think the invasion of Iraq was the right thing to do.


WHAT THE BRITISH THINK ABOUT THE IRAQ WAR

SECTION ONE: TRUST IN GOVERNMENT
1) War - right or wrong

Thinking about the build-up to the Iraq war and everything that has happened since, do you think that taking military action was the right thing to do, or the wrong thing to do?

Right: 48%
Wrong: 43%
Don't know: 9%

2) Was the war legal?

Legal: 37%
Illegal: 39%
Don't know: 24%


3) Did the government lie about WMD?

In the run up to the war with Iraq, do you think Tony Blair and his government...

Told the truth: 29%
Exaggerated but did not lie: 40%
Lied: 22%
Don't know: 8%



Exagerated but did not lie, quite funny as a choice, i seriously thought brits made more sense than american, but i was wrong, even americans admit the invasion of iraq was a mistake.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Logic 7 said:
Exagerated but did not lie, quite funny as a choice, i seriously thought brits made more sense than american, but i was wrong,

There is a difference between exaggerating and lying. Most of us think Blair exaggerated what he said about WMD, but most of us still know Saddam had WMD. Just not as bad as Blair said it was.


even americans admit the invasion of iraq was a mistake.

So what? We're a free country. We don't have to agree with the Yanks.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Blackleaf said:
There is a difference between exaggerating and lying. Most of us think Blair exaggerated what he said about WMD, but most of us still know Saddam had WMD. Just not as bad as Blair said it was.


even americans admit the invasion of iraq was a mistake.

So what? We're a free country. We don't have to agree with the Yanks.


Don't take it too seriously,saying most of you still acknowledge saddam had wmd before the second gulf war, isnt something to be proud of.
 

Hotshot

Electoral Member
May 31, 2006
330
0
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Blackleaf said:
Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
Well at least Canada didn't get sucked in by bushinski and his illegal war.


That's probably because your military, unlike the US, Britain, Australia, Italy, Spain, Poland etc isn't capable of fighting a war anywhere in the world. It's just used to "keep the peace" nowadays.

Thats correct. Peace keeping is the way to go. Not bombing the crap out of someone for no reason.
 

cortex

Electoral Member
Aug 3, 2006
418
2
18
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Re: RE: France to send 2,000 troops to Lebanon

Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
Hotshot said:
Blackleaf said:
Well at least Canada didn't get sucked in by bushinski and his illegal war.


That's probably because your military, unlike the US, Britain, Australia, Italy, Spain, Poland etc isn't capable of fighting a war anywhere in the world. It's just used to "keep the peace" nowadays.

Thats correct. Peace keeping is the way to go. Not bombing the crap out of someone for no reason.

oh--dont bother --the concept is beyond his comprehension
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
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RE: France to send 2,000

Ok, play the high and might Cortex, but in the end, your as bad as he is.

And he's wrong. I dont know where he gets his figures from but most of britain did not want to go to war with Iraq.

I find his pro-british-bash-everyone-else stance as irritating and irrational as your bash-british stance. So as I say, I think you two should get a room.

*And you say I'm "embarrising" Blackleaf?, OF Course Britain took part in many of what would now be considered "war crimes" all over the world, fact dude, fact.

Yes, there were worse rulers...FRANCE for example..but it's your frankly mentleness and sheer bloody-minded-stereotypical-Englishness thts giving us a bleedin bad name here "Embarrising" indeed!!!!!
 

cortex

Electoral Member
Aug 3, 2006
418
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OK--time to back off

I really have nothing agianst the UK at all--except Blackleafs type, and politically --but not against the people--or the culture

And you are absolutely correct his type does an ENORMOUS amount of damage to your countries image here.

anyway I got carried away

cortex apologizes