Fido vs. Telus/Clearnet

[niko]

RE: Fido vs. Telus/Clearn

moving on from my last post when the last time you guys owned your own freaking computer? I mean I know all of you are sitting in freaking cyber cafes built by Americans where you drool ovr our technology. This is the Canadain mind: HOCKEY HOCKEY BEER HOCKEY CURLING EH? I WILL DO ANYTHING FOR AN AMERICAN DOLLAR.

 

[Andem]

niko, is this a joke? Are you American? Ahh, yes you are.

I certainly wouldn't do much for an American dollar these days, it's becoming worthless... 1,16$ CAD and falling.

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDCAD=X&d=c&t=2y

 

[Scape]

Check GSMworld for coverage maps. 1.2 Billion users and growing. Candian Coverage Maps

Fido has superior billing and unlimited inbound however it lacks converge and it's pricing strategy has left it vulnerable to a takeover. Rogers is the major GSM carrier in Canada and has the largest coverage. CDMA and TDMA will be phased out but there is still a large market base for either so it will take time. Telus uses CDMA, the same technology used by Verizon, Americas 2nd largest Carrier but CDMA (and CDMA-2000) is not used around the world. GSM is used in every country in the world except Japan which used true UMTS that operates on 2100Mhz, they are a generation ahead of us. Only South Korea has CDMA as the primary service provider. There are 4 frequencies used in GSM 800(850)/900/1800/1900 in North America (and parts of Latin America) we use the 850/1900. Internationally they use 900/1800. the lower the frequency the better penetration value for buildings but the towers can handle less customers and not as much bandwidth. The lower frequencies are the older networks and since the higher frequencies can handle more customers expect more of them in future. In the US they still use TDMA and CDMA widespread and in Europe they have been using GSM since 1991. The US decided to stay with the older technology for market reasons but it has left the US 10 years behind the rest of the world and is only now beginning to catch up. In the US they will soon be using the 800(850) frequency for emergency use only so that only police, fire and ambulance services can use it.

 

[Woodchuck]

Check GSMworld for coverage maps. 1.2 Billion users and growing. Candian Coverage Maps

Fido has superior billing and unlimited inbound however it lacks converge and it's pricing strategy has left it vulnerable to a takeover. Rogers is the major GSM carrier in Canada and has the largest coverage. CDMA and TDMA will be phased out but there is still a large market base for either so it will take time. Telus uses CDMA, the same technology used by Verizon, Americas 2nd largest Carrier but CDMA (and CDMA-2000) is not used around the world. GSM is used in every country in the world except Japan which used true UMTS that operates on 2100Mhz, they are a generation ahead of us. Only South Korea has CDMA as the primary service provider. There are 4 frequencies used in GSM 800(850)/900/1800/1900 in North America (and parts of Latin America) we use the 850/1900. Internationally they use 900/1800. the lower the frequency the better penetration value for buildings but the towers can handle less customers and not as much bandwidth. The lower frequencies are the older networks and since the higher frequencies can handle more customers expect more of them in future. In the US they still use TDMA and CDMA widespread and in Europe they have been using GSM since 1991. The US decided to stay with the older technology for market reasons but it has left the US 10 years behind the rest of the world and is only now beginning to catch up. In the US they will soon be using the 800(850) frequency for emergency use only so that only police, fire and ambulance services can use it.

hihi,

are you sure about the GSM frequencies 850/1900 here (i'm in GTA)?

i just got off the phone with Fido and they said their network is GSM 900/1800/1900.... but another time i swear they said only 850/1800... so i'm not sure if their customer service reps really know what they are talking about

then i called Rogers, and they said they only support GSM 1900.. and she really didn't sound sure about her answer

so before i go and buy a very expensive GSM phone, does anyone know for sure? the phone i want to buy is a Europe/Asia phone that is dual band GSM 900/1800. does anyone know if this phone will work here (in GTA)? since Rogers bought Fido, they both have the same GSM network now right?

thanks in advance,
woodchuck

 

[Scape]

See for yourself

850/1900 for North America only (and parts of latin America). It is an FCC mandated standard (I work for international wireless care) 900/1800 is the international standard (IE 900 only works in new Zealand for example).

 

[usagi288]

for the one who wants to buy dual band cell phone (900/1800), I'm sure that it won't work in GTA or in Canada in general. From what i know, Rogers supports GSM 850 and Fido supports GSM 1900 (it doesn't matter now cuz Fido is a part of Rogers). Since I experienced this problem, I recommend not buying dual band phone especially the ones from Asia unless it's GSM 900/1900.

 

[Andem]

for the one who wants to buy dual band cell phone (900/1800), I'm sure that it won't work in GTA or in Canada in general. From what i know, Rogers supports GSM 850 and Fido supports GSM 1900 (it doesn't matter now cuz Fido is a part of Rogers). Since I experienced this problem, I recommend not buying dual band phone especially the ones from Asia unless it's GSM 900/1900.

Actually Rogers uses both 850 and 1900. Fido at the moment is just 1900 but expect things to change.

 

[ynn]

I've thought about getting an unlock cell phone from oversea and plug in the SIM card i have right now with fido prepaid service, will that work ? 'cause i just read fido's FAQ on its website and they point out that an unlocked phone from other source won't work proprely with their service. Is that true?

 

[Scape]

The Sim will not work. Prepaids have no international roaming agreements in place. Unlocking the phone can be done but that will breach the terms and conditions of service and the warrenty on the phone will be void. You can unlock it online. There are many websites to do it, just do a google search.

 

[ynn]

The Sim will not work. Prepaids have no international roaming agreements in place. Unlocking the phone can be done but that will breach the terms and conditions of service and the warrenty on the phone will be void. You can unlock it online. There are many websites to do it, just do a google search.

actually, the new cell phone i want to buy from oversea will be already unlocked﹐i don't need to unlock it anymore when i receive it. Even so, i still can't use my prepaid Sim card with it?

 

[Scape]

RE: Fido vs. Telus/Clearn

Correct. The rate plan is the problem not the phone. Prepaids do not generate enough securable revenue to be allowed access to interantional roaming. Go post paid or get a phone card and forget about a cell phone if money is an issue.

 

[Rogue]

I have read your posts before purchasing a cell phone. My choice was the v710 Telus flip phone with bluetooth capability. Anyone have one? What are pros and cons? I picked the Telus over Fido as I will be going out of the city and that's when you need the phone the most ...for me! :lol:

 

[ynn]

If the problem is not the phone, then i don't see why it doesn't work. Maybe i wasn't clear when i asked my question. Let me reasking it. I live in Canada, I bought a Fido cell phone and use its prepaid service since last year. Now I want to change a new cell phone, but i don't really like those models available here, so i asked a friend to help me getting a phone from Asia, and that phone is already unlocked. My question is: Will my prepaid SIM card that i'm using now work with that new cell phone? I don't want to get new SIM card, i just want to plug it into the new cell phone so that my phone number stays the same . My SIM card is still working fine and i still refill it every month.
Thanks for answering. I really know nothing about cell phone...

 

[Scape]

That will work as long as you stay in the plans home calling area. The service provider will not give technical support if you have problem with your phone and you will not have a warranty. Your phone must be able to support 850/1900 to work in Canada.

 

[nitzomoe]

Vincent_2002

obviosly they wont admit GSM is the best coverage CAUSE ITS NOT! the best overall network is a WCDMA or a 3G network. CDMA is merely a variation of WCDMA (3G), thats why u'll notice Qualcomm 3G CDMA on a TELUS phone, in canada that's the best one can get and thats according to The Globe & Mail and not some flimsy opinion based on one's personal experiences.

GSM is used in most of the world because its a relatively cheap option for cellular companies to create and use. Thats why ROGERS/FIDO both use GSM. In terms of TELUS only having North American coverage their 2006 lineup will include the Motorola A840 which will use the CDMA network in Canada and GSM partners network outside of North America.

in terms of telus using bell towers, thats only partially true. TELUS does utilise BELL lines in the eastern provinces (newfoundland etc.) which is quite limited. BELL on the other hand uses TELUS towers throughout the midwest because BELL has a minute number of towers there.

that should clear up everything

 

[Scape]

GSM is used in most of the world because its a relatively cheap option for cellular companies to create and use. Thats why ROGERS/FIDO both use GSM. In terms of TELUS only having North American coverage their 2006 lineup will include the Motorola A840 which will use the CDMA network in Canada and GSM partners network outside of North America.

GSM has 1 Billion users because it was rejected by the US in the 1990's when they decided to stick with TDMA/CDMA networks rather than upgrading strait away when it 1st came out. The carriers in North America, not the consumers, wanted it that way so they didn't have to make massive infrastructure improvements required in order to use the new technology. This allowed Europe to go from no cell coverage to GSM overnight and have a 10 year head start on deploying towers. Now the market is so huge for GSM that manufactures will sell in bulk and know there will be a demand (thus cheaper). There has never been an established national GSM carrier for the US market until the merger of Cingular/Attws. Only now is GSM truly emerging in North America and once edge is fully deployed it will have data rates of 384 kbit/s in packet mode as compared to 144 kbit/s packet data under CDMA 20001xRTT. This is not as fast as UMTS but it will be considerably cheaper to deploy and maintain.

 

[nitzomoe]

RE: Fido vs. Telus/Clearn

Unfortunately only theoretically can EDGE have data rates of 384 kbits/s, in the real world it will be able to provide a slightly less data rate than CDMA 1X. the link below will inform you of how I came to that conclusion. Also by the time EDGE has been fully implemented, TELUS will be moving on from 1X to CDMA2000 1xEV-DV clearly into 3G territory, and though its theoretical rate limit is 3.1 mbps (Oliver Valante, CDMA Development Group) its real-world data rate will actually be more along the lines of 1 Mbps. Its relatively cheaper for TELUS to venture such a task as upgrading infrastructure as opposed to GSM, as SCAPE has duly noted to upgrade GSM into WCDMA requires brand new infrastructure, which ROGERS won't be undertaking for at least another 5/6 years. Again since EDGE hs yet to be fully realised, I may be wrong, but current experimentation as well as the opinions of individuals whose primary mode is to review such technology seem to lend their names to CDMA as superior technology, easier to maintain service and easier to upgrade to 3G.

(http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/story.php?news_id=3091)

 

[Scape]

Your referring to the burst rate not the average and the upgrade to UMTS in North America will not be a true 3G but 2.75G. UMTS in Japan is true 3G (UMTS bandwidth for both voice AND DATA whereas in North America the carriers will have UMTS of Data only, not voice. Voice will still run on GSM. Japan can do true UMTS as in Japan there is a far higher per capita of cell phone users to land mass ratio so it makes business sense to do so. In North America it simply doesn't work, there is far to much land with barley anyone out there and coverage is more important than speed and cost is more important than quality. UMTS (EDGE) will roll out in areas like Seattle and Los Angles or New York 1st and then spread out from there. The argument your making that CDMA is superior is simply not supported by the market or the amount of subscribers. Both CDMA and GSM will be in direct competition for the same markets and it is the distributors who will make or break the technologies. It will be weather you like the customer service of a Telus rep vs a Rogers rep when they are explaining the charges on your bill that will make the market not the bandwidth as both are so close to compare in what they can do the argument has become moot. Globally the advantage of GSM will press home as there are far more GSM users and that will make manufacturing in bulk easier and costs lower, that advantage is something CDMA can not counter.

 

[kalok]

Re: RE: Fido vs. Telus/Clearn

Unfortunately only theoretically can EDGE have data rates of 384 kbits/s, in the real world it will be able to provide a slightly less data rate than CDMA 1X. the link below will inform you of how I came to that conclusion. Also by the time EDGE has been fully implemented, TELUS will be moving on from 1X to CDMA2000 1xEV-DV clearly into 3G territory, and though its theoretical rate limit is 3.1 mbps (Oliver Valante, CDMA Development Group) its real-world data rate will actually be more along the lines of 1 Mbps. Its relatively cheaper for TELUS to venture such a task as upgrading infrastructure as opposed to GSM, as SCAPE has duly noted to upgrade GSM into WCDMA requires brand new infrastructure, which ROGERS won't be undertaking for at least another 5/6 years. Again since EDGE hs yet to be fully realised, I may be wrong, but current experimentation as well as the opinions of individuals whose primary mode is to review such technology seem to lend their names to CDMA as superior technology, easier to maintain service and easier to upgrade to 3G.

(http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/story.php?news_id=3091)

at least, Rogers has EDGE and GPRS everywhere of their coverage since it's fully digital. Telus and Bell 's digital coverage are smaller than Rogers' digital coverage.

kalok~

 

[kalok]

Re: RE: Fido vs. Telus/Clearn

Unfortunately only theoretically can EDGE have data rates of 384 kbits/s, in the real world it will be able to provide a slightly less data rate than CDMA 1X. the link below will inform you of how I came to that conclusion. Also by the time EDGE has been fully implemented, TELUS will be moving on from 1X to CDMA2000 1xEV-DV clearly into 3G territory, and though its theoretical rate limit is 3.1 mbps (Oliver Valante, CDMA Development Group) its real-world data rate will actually be more along the lines of 1 Mbps. Its relatively cheaper for TELUS to venture such a task as upgrading infrastructure as opposed to GSM, as SCAPE has duly noted to upgrade GSM into WCDMA requires brand new infrastructure, which ROGERS won't be undertaking for at least another 5/6 years. Again since EDGE hs yet to be fully realised, I may be wrong, but current experimentation as well as the opinions of individuals whose primary mode is to review such technology seem to lend their names to CDMA as superior technology, easier to maintain service and easier to upgrade to 3G.

(http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/story.php?news_id=3091)

at least, Rogers has EDGE and GPRS everywhere of their coverage since it's fully digital. Telus and Bell 's digital coverage are smaller than Rogers' digital coverage.

kalok~