Fallujah: the truth at last How the US murdered a city!!

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
3,924
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Australia
Doctor Salam Ismael took aid to Fallujah last month. This is his story of how the US murdered a city

IT WAS the smell that first hit me, a smell that is difficult to describe, and one that will never leave me. It was the smell of death. Hundreds of corpses were decomposing in the houses, gardens and streets of Fallujah. Bodies were rotting where they had fallen—bodies of men, women and children, many half-eaten by wild dogs.

A wave of hate had wiped out two-thirds of the town, destroying houses and mosques, schools and clinics. This was the terrible and frightening power of the US military assault.

The accounts I heard over the next few days will live with me forever. You may think you know what happened in Fallujah. But the truth is worse than you could possibly have imagined.

In Saqlawiya, one of the makeshift refugee camps that surround Fallujah, we found a 17 year old woman. “I am Hudda Fawzi Salam Issawi from the Jolan district of Fallujah,” she told me. “Five of us, including a 55 year old neighbour, were trapped together in our house in Fallujah when the siege began.

“On 9 November American marines came to our house. My father and the neighbour went to the door to meet them. We were not fighters. We thought we had nothing to fear. I ran into the kitchen to put on my veil, since men were going to enter our house and it would be wrong for them to see me with my hair uncovered.

“This saved my life. As my father and neighbour approached the door, the Americans opened fire on them. They died instantly.

“Me and my 13 year old brother hid in the kitchen behind the fridge. The soldiers came into the house and caught my older sister. They beat her. Then they shot her. But they did not see me. Soon they left, but not before they had destroyed our furniture and stolen the money from my father’s pocket.”

Hudda told me how she comforted her dying sister by reading verses from the Koran. After four hours her sister died. For three days Hudda and her brother stayed with their murdered relatives. But they were thirsty and had only a few dates to eat. They feared the troops would return and decided to try to flee the city. But they were spotted by a US sniper.

Hudda was shot in the leg, her brother ran but was shot in the back and died instantly. “I prepared myself to die,” she told me. “But I was found by an American woman soldier, and she took me to hospital.” She was eventually reunited with the surviving members of her family.

I also found survivors of another family from the Jolan district. They told me that at the end of the second week of the siege the US troops swept through the Jolan. The Iraqi National Guard

used loudspeakers to call on people to get out of the houses carrying white flags, bringing all their belongings with them. They were ordered to gather outside near the Jamah al-Furkan mosque in the centre of town.

On 12 November Eyad Naji Latif and eight members of his family—one of them a six month old child—gathered their belongings and walked in single file, as instructed, to the mosque.

When they reached the main road outside the mosque they heard a shout, but they could not understand what was being shouted. Eyad told me it could have been “now” in English. Then the firing began.

US soldiers appeared on the roofs of surrounding houses and opened fire. Eyad’s father was shot in the heart and his mother in the chest.

They died instantly. Two of Eyad’s brothers were also hit, one in the chest and one in the neck. Two of the women were hit, one in the hand and one in the leg.

Then the snipers killed the wife of one of Eyad’s brothers. When she fell her five year old son ran to her and stood over her body. They shot him dead too.

Survivors made desperate appeals to the troops to stop firing.

But Eyad told me that whenever one of them tried to raise a white flag they were shot. After several hours he tried to raise his arm with the flag. But they shot him in the arm. Finally he tried to raise his hand. So they shot him in the hand.

The five survivors, including the six month old child, lay in the street for seven hours. Then four of them crawled to the nearest home to find shelter.

The next morning the brother who was shot in the neck also managed to crawl to safety. They all stayed in the house for eight days, surviving on roots and one cup of water, which they saved for the baby.

On the eighth day they were discovered by some members of the Iraqi National Guard and taken to hospital in Fallujah. They heard the Americans were arresting any young men, so the family fled the hospital and finally obtained treatment in a nearby town.

They do not know in detail what happened to the other families who had gone to the mosque as instructed. But they told me the street was awash with blood.

I had come to Fallujah in January as part of a humanitarian aid convoy funded by donations from Britain.

Our small convoy of trucks and vans brought 15 tons of flour, eight tons of rice, medical aid and 900 pieces of clothing for the orphans. We knew that thousands of refugees were camped in terrible conditions in four camps on the outskirts of town.

There we heard the accounts of families killed in their houses, of wounded people dragged into the streets and run over by tanks, of a container with the bodies of 481 civilians inside, of premeditated murder, looting and acts of savagery and cruelty that beggar belief.

Through the ruins
That is why we decided to go into Fallujah and investigate. When we entered the town I almost did not recognise the place where I had worked as a doctor in April 2004, during the first siege.

We found people wandering like ghosts through the ruins. Some were looking for the bodies of relatives. Others were trying to recover some of their possessions from destroyed homes.

Here and there, small knots of people were queuing for fuel or food. In one queue some of the survivors were fighting over a blanket.

I remember being approached by an elderly woman, her eyes raw with tears. She grabbed my arm and told me how her house had been hit by a US bomb during an air raid. The ceiling collapsed on her 19 year old son, cutting off both his legs.

She could not get help. She could not go into the streets because the Americans had posted snipers on the roofs and were killing anyone who ventured out, even at night.

She tried her best to stop the bleeding, but it was to no avail. She stayed with him, her only son, until he died. He took four hours to die.

Fallujah’s main hospital was seized by the US troops in the first days of the siege. The only other clinic, the Hey Nazzal, was hit twice by US missiles. Its medicines and medical equipment were all destroyed.

There were no ambulances—the two ambulances that came to help the wounded were shot up and destroyed by US troops.

We visited houses in the Jolan district, a poor working class area in the north western part of the city that had been the centre of resistance during the April siege.

This quarter seemed to have been singled out for punishment during the second siege. We moved from house to house, discovering families dead in their beds, or cut down in living rooms or in the kitchen. House after house had furniture smashed and possessions scattered.

In some places we found bodies of fighters, dressed in black and with ammunition belts.

But in most of the houses, the bodies were of civilians. Many were dressed in housecoats, many of the women were not veiled—meaning there were no men other than family members in the house. There were no weapons, no spent cartridges.

It became clear to us that we were witnessing the aftermath of a massacre, the cold-blooded butchery of helpless and defenceless civilians.

Nobody knows how many died. The occupation forces are now bulldozing the neighbourhoods to cover up their crime. What happened in Fallujah was an act of barbarity. The whole world must be told the truth.

The following should be read alongside this article:
» Eyewitness in Fallujah(http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=5892)
» Sorrow and fury as the dead are buried in Fallujah(http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=5885)
» Fallujah timeline(http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=5886)
» To show the reality is also a form of resistance(http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=5893)


http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=5891
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
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Re: killing of innocents

The killing of innocents is certainly a big part of America's war on Iraq. Bush says killing innocents is the hallmark of evil, and then simply ignores his own atrocities.

Hypocracy is rampant in his platform.

Here is an article that also points out the hypocracy of the Bush supporters, those Fundamentalist Christians who simply ignore that commandment about killing:


Conservative Christians Biggest Backers of Iraq War
by Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON - Of the major religious groups in the United States, evangelical Christians are the biggest backers of Israel and Washington's planned war against Iraq, says a new survey released here Wednesday by a politically potent group of fundamentalist Christians and Jews.

Some 69 percent of conservative Christians favor military action against Baghdad; 10 percentage points more than the U.S. adult population as a whole.

And almost two-thirds of evangelical Christians say they support Israeli actions towards ''Palestinian terrorism'', compared with 54 percent of the general population, according to the survey, which was released by Stand For Israel, a six-month-old spin-off of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).

''The single strongest group for Israel in the United States, apart from Jews, is conservative Christians,'' declared Ralph Reed, co-chairman of Stand for Israel and former executive director of the Christian Coalition. He also noted that 80 percent of self-identified Republicans also favor military action against Baghdad.

Reed, who was widely regarded as the wunderkind of the Christian Right during the 1990s, said the poll results might have important political implications in upcoming U.S. elections, particularly for the Jewish vote, which has traditionally gone overwhelmingly to Democrats. In 2000, for example, only 18 percent of Jewish voters cast ballots for President George W. Bush.

''There is a new openness among Jewish voters to support this president and other Republicans who strongly support Israel,'' Reed said, adding that he believes Bush in 2004 may reap close to the 38 percent of the Jewish vote harvested by Ronald Reagan in 1984, the highest percentage ever received by a Republican presidential candidate.

Some 81 percent of Jewish respondents said they see Bush as a strong supporter of Israel, and 46 percent said they were more likely to vote for him based on his handling of the ''war on terrorism''. The poll also found that two-thirds of Republicans said they supported Israel in the current conflict, compared to 46 percent of Democrats.

''The bottom line is that Bush appears to be making some significant inroads with this heavily Democratic group, something that could have an impact on the next two election cycles,'' said Ed Goeas, head of the Tarrance Group, which carried out the poll.

The survey, which included 1,200 respondents contacted last week, tends to confirm the findings of similar polls over the last several years that have shown strong support for Israel on the part of evangelical Christians, who together make up about one third of the U.S. adult population.

Historically apolitical, the group first came to the attention of the political elite in 1976 when large numbers of them helped elect Jimmy Carter, a ''born-again'' Christian. Disillusioned by Carter's liberal politics and social attitudes, they became a major recruiting ground for the ''New Right'' that in turn paved the way for the election in 1980 of former president Ronald Reagan.

At the same time, Christian fundamentalists were also avidly courted by the right-wing Likud government in Israel, which saw in them a promising new constituency that, for theological reasons, could be persuaded to oppose the return of Jerusalem and the West Bank to Arab rule.

In 1979, the government of Israel reportedly gave Jerry Falwell, head of the ''Moral Majority'' and the leading Christian Right figure of the time, his first private jet.

The Israeli government has also arranged special tours for evangelical Christian groups that have contributed tens of millions of dollars to Jewish and Israeli agencies involved in resettling Jews to Israel and in building Israeli settlements on the occupied territories.

With offices in Chicago and Jerusalem, the IFCJ has acted as a key forum for promoting the relationship between conservative U.S. Jews and evangelical Christians since 1983. As violence between Israelis and Palestinians intensified last spring, the group created ''Stand for Israel'', which it called ''an effort to strategically mobilize leadership and grassroots support in the Christian community for the State of Israel''.

''Jews are only now beginning to understand the depth of support they have among conservative Christians,'' said IFCJ's founder-director and Stand for Israel co-chairman, Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein, at the time.

''Once the potential of this immense reservoir of good will is fully comprehended by the Jewish people and strategically tapped by the Stand for Israel campaign, you will see support for Israel in the United States swell dramatically.''

The new survey's results appear to bear out that prediction, at least in part. Two thirds of conservative Christians queried in the poll said that they believed they shared the same or similar perspective as Jews when it comes to the issue of ''Israel and its current struggle against Palestine''.

Reed and Eckstein also claimed that the survey effectively debunked the notion that evangelical Christian support for Israel was based on New Testament prophecy that the reconstruction of the ancient Jewish kingdom of David would usher in the ''end times'' and the second coming of Christ.

Asked which was the most important of four possible reasons why they supported Israel, 56 percent of fundamentalist Christian respondents chose political reasons, particularly Israel's democratic values, its alliance with the United States in the war against terrorism, and its role as a safe haven for persecuted Jews elsewhere. Thirty-five percent opted for the ''end-times'' option.

But when given a choice of four religious alternatives, only 28 percent cited the end-times alternative. Almost two thirds said that God had given the Jews the land of Israel as the main theological reason for backing the Jewish state.

''This survey bears out my view that Christians are trustworthy and vital allies,'' said Eckstein. ''I've seen more positive changes (in Jewish and conservative Christian relations) in the past six months than I have for the past 25 years,'' he added.

Along with announcing the survey results, Eckstein, who co-chairs Stand for Israel with Reed, unveiled a one-minute video which will be run in ''tens of thousands'' of churches with combined memberships of 3.2 million people on Sunday, Oct. 20, exhorting Christians to pray for Israel whose enemies, it says, ''are on the attack again''.

''God has promised that those who bless Israel will themselves be blessed,'' says the video, which is filled with recent images of violence in Israel and the West Bank.

Reed conceded that not all conservative Christians were as supportive of Israel as those involved in the ''Stand for Israel'' campaign.

Indeed, some 50 evangelical ministers recently issued a statement opposing unilateral military action against Iraq, and at least one national evangelical group has urged a more-balanced policy toward Israel and the Palestinians. But Reed insisted that his views represented those of a ''very, very large majority'' of evangelical Christians.

Copyright 2002 IPS



http://www.commondreams.org/
 

Dr Caleb

New Member
Feb 14, 2005
14
0
1
Re: killing of innocents

Karlin said:
Conservative Christians Biggest Backers of Iraq War
by Jim Lobe

To be honest, I didn't read past there on your post Karlin. Any one who claims to be Christian, cannot be in favour of this war.

Thus, the rest was irrelevant.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth at last How the US murdered a ci

Stretch said:
shrub is a LOT WORSE than saddam
I agree...at least Saddam never even tried to look like a good guy...he was a bastard and everyone knew it, and he didn't care...he also usurped, or was given all the power that he had, and he used it as he bloody well pleased...but he was a truly secular despot...religion didn't matter to him that much...
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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Yes, given a choice I am sure a lot of you would rather live under Saddam than Bush.

Do you folks live in reality or has your blind hatred for the current US Administration banished your common sense?
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
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Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth at last How the US murdered a ci

EagleSmack said:
Yes, given a choice I am sure a lot of you would rather live under Saddam than Bush.

Do you folks live in reality or has your blind hatred for the current US Administration banished your common sense?

No, given a choice, I would like to see Bush languish in some obscure jail cell for having caused the word democracy to be dirty in the mouths of so many...

He is no less a tyrant than Saddam, and far more dangerous to the world than Saddam ever was...

If you voted for him, then shame on you...if not then I express my condolences for having to endure yet another term...

...and yet, as Bush gave no second thoughts to pissing all over your constitution, with the Patriot Act and the Domestic Security Enhancement Act, colloquially known as Patriot II Act, that I would not put it past him to change it futher, to give him some special wartime provision so as to be able to remain in office indefinitely...so I hope you're happy with him Eagle, because he may be there for a very long time...

...in the mean time, perhaps you could read up on just what your president has been doing to all of those civil liberties you once enjoyed..

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/terrorism/terrorism3.htm
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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Funny I do not feel ashamed.

You know what else? I have not lost one liberty. It may take a little more time getting through lines at an airport but I do not sweat that. Most of the hyper-links were broken in that website you sent. I skimmed through some. But listen, I've nothing to hide. These acts are directed towards people who aim to do harm to "fanatics" like me. I will guarantee you that this American will never see the inside of a prison for anything in the Patriot Act, or anything else for that matter. If the ACLU is against the Patriot Act, it is a pretty good indication that this is a fine document. They would rather see the country in ashes than try to protect it.

The United States took down a dictator. For that we are loathed. We have given a people a chance to forge their own destiny instead of living under tyranny.

Forget all the other things we do for the world and downtrodden countries.

Bush will be here for four more years and that is it. Hopefully we will get someone just like him after.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
17
38
8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth at last How the US murdered a ci

EagleSmack said:
Forget all the other things we do for the world and downtrodden countries.

Yeah, it's great all the things that US does for those countries...like murder their wives and children, and poison their country with banned uranium weapons...

EagleSmack said:
I will guarantee you that this American will never see the inside of a prison for anything in the Patriot Act, or anything else for that matter

You must not be of Middle Eastern descent...but don't fret, because the racial profiling is just the beginning...soon those laws will be applied to all sorts of situations...

EagleSmack said:
Funny I do not feel ashamed.

No, not that funny at all really...that you are not ashamed belies that you have no social conscience, and you and your kind are already dead in my eyes...
 

alienofwar

New Member
Mar 2, 2005
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Eaglesmack, lots of the people who post on here are left-wing fanatics, no different from right-wing fanatics. Unfortunately somehow they get more credit in the media than the far right wing groups do. A good example is Michael Moore who in Fahrenheit 9/11 used propaganda tactics to portray the U.S gov't as evil corporate elite's who's real goal in Iraq is to grab all oil. Only problem, is that documentary was riddled with errors and yet most of the unsuspecting public was not aware of this. For example, you go into a Blockbuster anywhere in the U.S and you will find 10-20 times more copies of Fahrenheit 9/11 than any other documentaries that had opposing views such has FahrenHype 9/11 and Celcius 41.11. You talk to the average socilaist on this forum and I'll bet you none of them were even aware of these alternative documentaries.

Anywas, being a Canadian I am fully aware of the media monopoly that exists in Canada and the misconceptions that exist among the general public and its view point of the U.S. Unfortunately untill Canada gains a substantial conservative movement, most Canadians will be completely ignorant of opposing viewpoints rival to the liberal media. Being lucky enough to move to the U.S, I was very suprised at the diversity that existed in the media here. For example, you can choose to watch a right-leaning news network such as Foxnews or tune into BBC world news to get your coverage. You can choose to listen to the left leaning NPR or Air America or tune into the many conservative talk shows that exist as well. Many Canadians are misinformed about the world news coverage that exists in the U.S, many think that the U.S hardly gets any real news from the outside...but this is hardly true. From reading the newspapers here I actually notice the same level of world news as back in Canada...no difference. Log on to the internet and you have the the whold world's worth of diverse news sources from international news sites to the ever increaseing cyber population of bloggers! Censorship in the U.S?? Hardly...if anything, just another myth that exists in Canada perpetuated from the left wing media that uses the U.S as a scapegoat to distract the population from its own problems (my own theory still in the works).

Thankfully the Foxnews network has broke into the domains of Canadian content, but unfortunately is not exposed to enough of the population since you can only watch it if you subscribe to Digital cable and if you dont mind flipping the channels into the 100's to find it. Unfortunately a majority of Canadians (especially the poor) will be unexposed to a alternative news media and have only the CTV and CBC to rely on. At least there is still conservative talk and news radio...but what Canadians call "conservatives" in Canada are really just watered down liberals who must pander to the majority of the left-leaning population in order to gain any seats in gov't.

Sad state of affairs indeed which many Americans really dont care about...but since Canadians have a inferiority complex when it comes to their big brother down south...thats all we want to focus on is a way to make our small country feel special in this big world which is dominated culturally by the U.S.

But heck, this is really all tribal monkey bussiness as far as Im concerned...were really still very primitive as a species on this planet.

I think I ramble too much.

Jeremy
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
A good example is Michael Moore who in Fahrenheit 9/11 used propaganda tactics to portray the U.S gov't as evil corporate elite's who's real goal in Iraq is to grab all oil. Only problem, is that documentary was riddled with errors and yet most of the unsuspecting public was not aware of this. For example, you go into a Blockbuster anywhere in the U.S and you will find 10-20 times more copies of Fahrenheit 9/11 than any other documentaries that had opposing views such has FahrenHype 9/11 and Celcius 41.11.

The fasct that Moore's movie was actually good and won awards had nothing to do with all those copies in Blockbuster, I'm sure.

Also, if there were so many factual errors, why wasn't he sued?

nywas, being a Canadian I am fully aware of the media monopoly that exists in Canada and the misconceptions that exist among the general public and its view point of the U.S. Unfortunately untill Canada gains a substantial conservative movement, most Canadians will be completely ignorant of opposing viewpoints rival to the liberal media.

Hmmm...lemmee see...Global Can-West...Pro-corporate, pro American, Pro-Bush. CTV...Pro-Conservative, pro-Corporate, pro-American, pro-Bush. Quebecor...Pro-Conservative, pro-corporate, pro-American, pro-Bush.

So much for the myth of a liberal or left-leaning press in Canada.

Being lucky enough to move to the U.S, I was very suprised at the diversity that existed in the media here. For example, you can choose to watch a right-leaning news network such as Foxnews or tune into BBC world news to get your coverage. You can choose to listen to the left leaning NPR or Air America or tune into the many conservative talk shows that exist as well. Many Canadians are misinformed about the world news coverage that exists in the U.S, many think that the U.S hardly gets any real news from the outside...but this is hardly true.

Yup...just like the embedded press in Iraq was fair and balanced :roll: . The US press is laughingstock around the world right now for the way they have pandered to the White House and allowed themselves to be manipulated.

From reading the newspapers here I actually notice the same level of world news as back in Canada...no difference.

Of course there's no difference, I already pointed out the insane right-wing slant of the Canadian media.

I think I ramble too much.

I think you should ramble a little further south.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth at last How the US murdered a ci

alienofwar said:
For example, you go into a Blockbuster anywhere in the U.S and you will find 10-20 times more copies of Fahrenheit 9/11 than any other documentaries that had opposing views such has FahrenHype 9/11 and Celcius 41.11. You talk to the average socilaist on this forum and I'll bet you none of them were even aware of these alternative documentaries.

Not true...I've seen Fahrenhype...and I found it to be rather ridiculous...a lot of ranting and denial, but no substiantiating evidence...I have not seen Celcius, but I would think that it's much of the same...

...and as the Rev said:

Reverend Blair said:
Also, if there were so many factual errors, why wasn't he sued?

It's interesting to note that all these conservative sites have sprung up that are devoted to debunking Moore's movies and books, but never have they addressed the question of why he has not been sued by those that he targets...could it be that he's close enough to the mark that most don't want to push the issue?
 

radioking

New Member
Feb 23, 2005
6
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1
Toronto
Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth at last How the US murdered a ci

alienofwar said:
...Michael Moore who in Fahrenheit 9/11 used propaganda tactics to portray the U.S gov't as evil corporate elite's who's real goal in Iraq is to grab all oil.

Well, they ARE corporate elites - shall go through the Bush administrations corporate ties? Cheney, former CEO Halliburton; Rumsfeld, former CEO GD Searle (pharmaceutical co.); Condi Rice, Chevron, Transamerica Corp.; Alberto Gonzales, was partner in giant law firm Vinson & Elkins; $o on and $o on.

Secondly, oil was a big factor in "US vs. Iraq Part 2":

"If Kuwait grew carrots, we wouldn't give a damn." Lawrence Korb, former US Assistant Secretary of Defence, January 1991

But it wasn't the only factor. The end goal is Bush's desire to "spread democracy" throughout the Middle East. I don't think he'll be dangling carrots either. Check out this article by Seymour Hersh called the Coming Wars: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=7054

And on a lighter note, here's a good article on Grandfather Bush business dealings with -- the Nazis:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html[/url]
 

alienofwar

New Member
Mar 2, 2005
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"The fasct that Moore's movie was actually good and won awards had nothing to do with all those copies in Blockbuster, I'm sure."

I was pointing out the fact that there are alot more copies of the documentary than alternatives, therefore less exposure and less knowledge among the public of the problems with Moores film. I said nothing about it getting awards...i dont personally care if it did, it might of been good entertainment, but just riddled with errors.

"Also, if there were so many factual errors, why wasn't he sued?""

I dont know why he wasn't sued, do you think its worth the money and time to pursue such a case? No one takes Michale Moore seriously down here anyways, so is there a point? There are many discrepencies in this film..for example:

IN the beginning of the film, the Al Gore victory in Florida which Michal Moore says was after the election....but that was wrong, it was actually before the election, it was a rally on the final day of the campaign, not the post-election victory.

On Bush's inauguration Michael Moore shows a clip of the Presidents limosine passing a bunch of protesters and getting pelted by eggs and then him saying that it prevented him from walking, but actually he did walk the the last one block...also, Moore goes on saying that such a thing as this was never seen in any other presidents inauguration...which is not true, it happened to Nixon and stones and sticks were thrown at his limosine.

As well as Bush's vacation time was completely distorted, his relationship with the Saudis, and the Oregon costal line not being protected, etc......there are way too many errors to list here...something like 64 or more errors listed on this website with a source to back up every single claim. If any of you guys actually took a look at this you would be suprised, its absoloutely a shame for Michael Moore.

http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubID.2189/pub_detail.asp

Here is another link that lists the errors and deceits with sources of course:

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

"Hmmm...lemmee see...Global Can-West...Pro-corporate, pro American, Pro-Bush. CTV...Pro-Conservative, pro-Corporate, pro-American, pro-Bush. Quebecor...Pro-Conservative, pro-corporate, pro-American, pro-Bush.

So much for the myth of a liberal or left-leaning press in Canada."

HAHAHAHA. You call them conservative??? My god, no where near at all. Those networks are the equivelant of CNN and CBS news down here!! LOL. You need to come down south my friend, then you will get a taste of what conservatism really is. What a joke.

"Yup...just like the embedded press in Iraq was fair and balanced . The US press is laughingstock around the world right now for the way they have pandered to the White House and allowed themselves to be manipulated."

HA, if anything the U.S press hasn't released any positive news of what is going on in Iraq...you know they would never do that, they only report what the people want to see...and thats negative news, because its exciting...simple as that! If they reported that say...a district in Baghdad has just got electricity running again...who would tune in? They would rather hear that 3 U.S troops got killed and a Mosque was bombed....oooooooooh thats more interesting...."hahaha, stupid americans, they will never win" Its simple economics my friends, more interesting news, more ratings. Watch Fox news if you want to hear any postive news of whats going on in Iraq...or the conservative commentators down here...some of the very few sources where you can find such news.

"Of course there's no difference, I already pointed out the insane right-wing slant of the Canadian media."

right-wing slant??????? Suuuuuuuuuuuure......like I said, babies walking in diapers.

"Not true...I've seen Fahrenhype...and I found it to be rather ridiculous...a lot of ranting and denial, but no substiantiating evidence...I have not seen Celcius, but I would think that it's much of the same..."

Then you have never seen the documentary or you werent paying attention, because just like in those links i provided, lots of evidence was provided. Click on the links...you will find the evidence that was reported in that Fahrenhype 9/11.

"It's interesting to note that all these conservative sites have sprung up that are devoted to debunking Moore's movies and books, but never have they addressed the question of why he has not been sued by those that he targets...could it be that he's close enough to the mark that most don't want to push the issue?"

He may have not been sued for those who he targets (because seriously, no one with half brain will believe what he said since he has lost all credibility as it is) but he has been sued by a newspaper down here for doctoring the front page of their newspaper for his film...hmm hold on a sec, let me find the article on the net..... http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5575561 LOL. What a riot...they go saying in the article "“If (Moore) wants to ‘edit’ The Pantagraph, he should apply for a copy-editing job" LOL. Too funny.

Jeremy
 

alienofwar

New Member
Mar 2, 2005
40
0
6
"Well, they ARE corporate elites - shall go through the Bush administrations corporate ties?"

I said evil corporate elites. EVIL! I dont associate success in the bussiness world as "evil". I consider it merit and all the more reason to elect that person to power. Now of course, you will mention "evil Halliburton" and how they profit off this war...but the fact is there is no other company that could of handled the scale of the job in Iraq and also this company has worked under Bill Clinton in the past (are you doing to discredit Bill Clinton for hiring them then? Fact is, Halliburton has been a gov't contractor for quite awhile.

Concerning the oil....okay, wheres the evidence?? I want physical evidence that the U.S is stealing oil as you far left activists love to spout out. Where??????????????!!!

Jeremy