on the topic of humans not evolving, i tend to disagree. have you seen the casles from the middle ages, the doorways were so small and so were the people. we've certainly grown in size, but keep in mind it may be hard to spot the small changes in ourselves since we've lived with them our whole life and pointing them out on a 65000 year old corpse can't possibly be easy.
Evolution - Possibly Not True
- Thread starter Graeme
- Start date
People probably have grown in the past few hundred years, but the point is that is not evolution. The reason we are bigger is mostly better diet (and perhaps a few other factors).
Was it not 2 of each unclean animal and 7 (possibly 7 pairs) of each of the "clean" animals
Its all be seen far better than I could, So im just going to generally shake my head and ask why anyone feels to need to force others to share their views.
If you want to live in what others consider ignorance/heresy (be you a creationist or not)
Just learn to give up on others who chose not to, you aren't here to force them to agree with you.
If you want to live in what others consider ignorance/heresy (be you a creationist or not)
Just learn to give up on others who chose not to, you aren't here to force them to agree with you.
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Let me add to that...
Dominant genes, such as those for brown eyes or flexible thumbs, were once small mutations in a very small amount of people that eventually, because of their dominance, have spread themselves throughout the population. Given enough time, all humans will have brown eyes and flexible thumbs, as well as many other traits until something even more dominant comes along.
Dominant genes, such as those for brown eyes or flexible thumbs, were once small mutations in a very small amount of people that eventually, because of their dominance, have spread themselves throughout the population. Given enough time, all humans will have brown eyes and flexible thumbs, as well as many other traits until something even more dominant comes along.
If someone with brown eyes (homozygous) has a child with someone with, say, blue eyes, the child will have brown eyes but will be heterozygous. If that heterozygous brown-eyed child offspring has a child with another blue eyed person, that child will have a 50/50 chance of having blue or brown eyes (another heterozygote). There must be some selection pressure, otherwise not everyone will end up with brown eyes.
That's slightly hypocritical.
According to Creationists, everything on Earth was created in a mere six days, which is tiny compared to 3 billion years.
To me, it's MUCH more plausible that complex life evolved over 3 billion - 4 billion years - as the great man Darwin said - than the idea that they suddenly appeared in a big flash of Heavenly light just 6 days after the Earth was created.
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I don't know, but I do know that the Noah story isn't true because how did he get Australian or North American or South American animals onto his Ark centuries before those continents were discovered?
Noah was a LONG time before Columbus discovered North America in 1492.
Surely they'd all have drowned in North America.
What is the creationist claim for how people came to inhabit North America? They can't make the normal claim of the ice bridge. How is this one rationalized, especially the genetic drift?
Not to help them along with their quest: BUT...
just because the bible doesn't mention something, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It never mentions Jesus having to go to the bathroom, but I imagine he did.
Likewise, it never says there weren't OTHER arks...
It could only play a role in evolution if it was somehow inherited by subesequent generations. I think what you are suggesting is some form of Lamarckian genetics Link , which is not how evolution works.
Actually...I think diet plays a large role...I mean, we have adapted for so many years based, partly, on obtaining food, and as the diet changed...so did the body. We still have some toss backs to a different time, when we ate in a different way...including wisdom teeth, and canines, various organs that can be removed with little problem... part of the reason we don't really need them is because our diet has changed.
Back to teeth...more and more people are being born without wisdom teeth or with very small wisdom teeth. Our lack of need to chase down food anymore has been important in our evolution. It has allowed obesity to become a larger problem...and the problem itself, and various problems related to it are being genetically transfered to the next generations.
Um...I'm not thinking very clearly tonight, so I don't know if I made the argument very strong, or in the best way, but...well...that's the basics from my point of view.
True. Our teeth certainly have changed throughout our evolution. My original comment though was talking about people getting taller. I'm not sure what this has to do with evolution.
I'm not sure if lack of wisdom teeth have anything to do with evolution, I'd have to read up on it some more. Our teeth have definitely changed through our evolution though. That much is certain.
Obesity is not a result of evolution either. We are obese because we eat too much for the exercise that we do. If we ate less, we wouldn't be obese. We have not evolved to be obese.
That's ok, I've been there before
It does. Genetic drift is quite clearly visible when you compare Europeans to North American aboriginals, especially the nomadic people of the plains and the arctic. Thousands of years of a high protein diet has produced changes in the way they metabolize carbohydrates compared to people of European origin. Given a standard white person type diet, they're much more prone to obesity and mature-onset diabetes, for instance, and alcohol has a longer lasting effect on them. Or look at the patterns of lactose intolerance and hypertension in different racial groups; they're clearly connected. The drift didn't go far enough to prevent interbreeding, so we're all still the same species, but given enough time and isolated populations it would have.
I'll list:
Science and Stuff
Evolution change and database is based on the average of a curve. Other words, the curve of the graph are usually taken as a line from the lowest to the highest point. The prediction of change are based on one aspect.
That means, the theory assume (check the dictionary if you do not know) that the weather is constant and do not change. Make sure the cookies setting is low so that people do not know you are checking for a word (only if you do not want to be embarrased by the intellectuals). The percentage is really a rough yet close estimate of how something is done.
How cells are created
Funny thing how this post got started. I was just reading the cell-evolution of the first organism by Joseph Panno, Ph.D. to catch up to the upcoming biology test.
I know one thing that is true about the whole evolution. Some famous scientists called Urey-Miller invented a model demostrating how things are suppose to go. It have water (H2O), CH4, NH3, and H2. Urey-Miller then boiled the water and with the substances, they formed some amino acids and peptides, and some other sort of chains. Check the wikipedia for Urey-Miller model or some sort of search engines like ask, google, teoma, yahoo, metacrawler (my favorite), dogpile, ixquick. After this, many other live things are created by the scientists. To answer your question, it is probably a storm of all of the combination of the substances that mixed and is poured randomly toward the earth. Or mixed within the water or substances just mixed, combined and boom! something forms! Take chemistry and try out the model yourself. It might be handy to have a bio dictionary beside you to tell you what you've made. Now the water wave bubble theory is shady, and I'll have to say, it may or may not exsist. Maybe it only exsist in once a while.
DNA and RNA
better research it. People belive RNA is formed by the chemical substance from the enzyme protein reverse transcriptae can copy DNA into a RNA.
Transition Species
No idea. Probably because the earth changed its landscapes so much that only certain very obvious bones of past animals can be found and analyzed. The smaller ones are probably swallowed into the earth's magma and recycled to make other rocks.
Science and Stuff
Evolution change and database is based on the average of a curve. Other words, the curve of the graph are usually taken as a line from the lowest to the highest point. The prediction of change are based on one aspect.
That means, the theory assume (check the dictionary if you do not know) that the weather is constant and do not change. Make sure the cookies setting is low so that people do not know you are checking for a word (only if you do not want to be embarrased by the intellectuals). The percentage is really a rough yet close estimate of how something is done.
How cells are created
Funny thing how this post got started. I was just reading the cell-evolution of the first organism by Joseph Panno, Ph.D. to catch up to the upcoming biology test.
I know one thing that is true about the whole evolution. Some famous scientists called Urey-Miller invented a model demostrating how things are suppose to go. It have water (H2O), CH4, NH3, and H2. Urey-Miller then boiled the water and with the substances, they formed some amino acids and peptides, and some other sort of chains. Check the wikipedia for Urey-Miller model or some sort of search engines like ask, google, teoma, yahoo, metacrawler (my favorite), dogpile, ixquick. After this, many other live things are created by the scientists. To answer your question, it is probably a storm of all of the combination of the substances that mixed and is poured randomly toward the earth. Or mixed within the water or substances just mixed, combined and boom! something forms! Take chemistry and try out the model yourself. It might be handy to have a bio dictionary beside you to tell you what you've made. Now the water wave bubble theory is shady, and I'll have to say, it may or may not exsist. Maybe it only exsist in once a while.
DNA and RNA
better research it. People belive RNA is formed by the chemical substance from the enzyme protein reverse transcriptae can copy DNA into a RNA.
Transition Species
No idea. Probably because the earth changed its landscapes so much that only certain very obvious bones of past animals can be found and analyzed. The smaller ones are probably swallowed into the earth's magma and recycled to make other rocks.
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Takes a deep breathe for part II
Natural Selection
I think natural selection is trying to say, if a species is to survive, they must be symbiosis with the environment. Because the world is so overwhealming, it seemed its like nature selecting certain people to live.
Species
There may be a lot of other geological evidences that are hidden in the rocks and is saved until one day, a person found something! So its the obvious ones (hidden very well from geological change in a mountain or beneath a non-earthquake place) or is just big and well enough to distinguish. That part, leaves to um. identfying certain things because they are obvious.
I hope that answers your question! Look toward the rock cycles, and experience it by buying a copter and hovering above a volcano. If you can get a rock in, and a rock coming out, or if you can see the black stuff after the volcano, then the rock cycle is true and you can believe earth do change according to the volcano. If you would like to see earthquakes, do the same and you will understand earthquakes are true too.
Natural Selection
I think natural selection is trying to say, if a species is to survive, they must be symbiosis with the environment. Because the world is so overwhealming, it seemed its like nature selecting certain people to live.
Species
There may be a lot of other geological evidences that are hidden in the rocks and is saved until one day, a person found something! So its the obvious ones (hidden very well from geological change in a mountain or beneath a non-earthquake place) or is just big and well enough to distinguish. That part, leaves to um. identfying certain things because they are obvious.
I hope that answers your question! Look toward the rock cycles, and experience it by buying a copter and hovering above a volcano. If you can get a rock in, and a rock coming out, or if you can see the black stuff after the volcano, then the rock cycle is true and you can believe earth do change according to the volcano. If you would like to see earthquakes, do the same and you will understand earthquakes are true too.
Evolution, Physics, Probability & Consciousness.
Evolution, Physics, Probability & Consciousness.
======= =======.
Once upon a time, in the beginning, (20 billions of years ago)
all matter (all elementary particles and all quarks and their
girlfriends- antiparticles and antiquarks, all kinds of waves:
electromagnetic, gravitational, muons… gluons field ….. etc.)
– was assembled in a “single point” accidentally. (?)
Then it has accidentally blown up: Big Bang " has taken place.
It was the reason of accidental creation of some thousands
kinds of elementary particles and their girlfriends - antiparticles.
Then atom of hydrogen was formed accidentally. (?)
Then complex atom was formed accidentally. (?)
Then stars were formed accidentally. (?)
Then the Planet the Earth was formed accidentally. (?)
Then the fauna was formed accidentally. (?)
Then the animal kingdom was formed accidentally. (?)
Then the man was created accidentally. (?)
And this man can accidentally think logically. (?)
But of course, unfortunately, not always.
===========.
We know, there is no information transfer
without energy transfer. More correct : there is no quant
information transfer without quant energy transfer.
And the electron has the least electric charge.
It means it has some quant of the least information.
What can electron do with this information?
Let us look the Mendeleev / Moseley periodic table.
We can see at first, that electron does, it interacts with proton
and creates atom of hydrogen. This is simplest design,
which was created by electron.
And we can see how this information grows and reaches
high informational level. And the most complex design,
which was created by electron is the Man.
The Man is alive essence. Animals, birds, fish are alive essences.
And an atom? And atom is also alive design.
The free atom of hydrogen can live about 1000 seconds.
And someone a long time ago has already said, that if
to give suffices time to atom of hydrogen, he would turn into Man.
========.
Maybe it is better not to search about "dark, virtual particles "
but to understand what the electron is,
because even now nobody knows what electron is.
The one, who creates a general picture of Life, must consider
development of evolution of Life from atom up to the Man.
==============.
How the God created our terrestrial world?
======== ========
The God is unknown materialistic thing.
No one knows what the external characteristics
of this God are, a God who made himself known
with the name " I am who I am ".
But in the Bible we can read that at first He took
a “clay” and made a figure of a man
and only after He gave him a “soul”.
How can we understand this scientific?
====== ========
1.
The “clay” is a proton.
2.
The “soul” is a quantum of light / electron.
3.
Interaction between proton and electron is created
simplest atom - atom of hydrogen.
4.
And atom is alive design.
The atom of hydrogen lives 12 minutes.
5.
After is created a complex atom.
6.
The evolution is continuing.
7.
And someone a long time ago has already said, that if
to give suffices time to atom of hydrogen, he will turn into Man.
===========.
Evolution of consciousness.
It was a hot summer day.
In the zoo, near the cage of gorilla the gapers gathered.
They laughed and threw bits of fruits and bread into the cage.
And gorilla was twirling round in the narrow cage, not finding enough room for itself.
Our eyes met and I saw agonizing pain in the eyes of gorilla.
Its eyes were human ones.
I gazed at it in astonishment.
Then I transferred my glance on the people.
They laughed and their eyes were brutal, soulless.
Silently I observed this picture.
Ones, having learned to walk on two feet and speak using human voice,
preserved the ferocious hatred.
The others, in the skin of an animal, already possess the human origin.
Links of one chain, of one evolutional civilization.
======..=============
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.
http://www.socratus.com
http://www.wbabin.net
http://www.wbabin.net/comments/sadovnik.htm
http://www.wbabin.net/physics/sadovnik.pdf
Evolution, Physics, Probability & Consciousness.
======= =======.
Once upon a time, in the beginning, (20 billions of years ago)
all matter (all elementary particles and all quarks and their
girlfriends- antiparticles and antiquarks, all kinds of waves:
electromagnetic, gravitational, muons… gluons field ….. etc.)
– was assembled in a “single point” accidentally. (?)
Then it has accidentally blown up: Big Bang " has taken place.
It was the reason of accidental creation of some thousands
kinds of elementary particles and their girlfriends - antiparticles.
Then atom of hydrogen was formed accidentally. (?)
Then complex atom was formed accidentally. (?)
Then stars were formed accidentally. (?)
Then the Planet the Earth was formed accidentally. (?)
Then the fauna was formed accidentally. (?)
Then the animal kingdom was formed accidentally. (?)
Then the man was created accidentally. (?)
And this man can accidentally think logically. (?)
But of course, unfortunately, not always.
===========.
We know, there is no information transfer
without energy transfer. More correct : there is no quant
information transfer without quant energy transfer.
And the electron has the least electric charge.
It means it has some quant of the least information.
What can electron do with this information?
Let us look the Mendeleev / Moseley periodic table.
We can see at first, that electron does, it interacts with proton
and creates atom of hydrogen. This is simplest design,
which was created by electron.
And we can see how this information grows and reaches
high informational level. And the most complex design,
which was created by electron is the Man.
The Man is alive essence. Animals, birds, fish are alive essences.
And an atom? And atom is also alive design.
The free atom of hydrogen can live about 1000 seconds.
And someone a long time ago has already said, that if
to give suffices time to atom of hydrogen, he would turn into Man.
========.
Maybe it is better not to search about "dark, virtual particles "
but to understand what the electron is,
because even now nobody knows what electron is.
The one, who creates a general picture of Life, must consider
development of evolution of Life from atom up to the Man.
==============.
How the God created our terrestrial world?
======== ========
The God is unknown materialistic thing.
No one knows what the external characteristics
of this God are, a God who made himself known
with the name " I am who I am ".
But in the Bible we can read that at first He took
a “clay” and made a figure of a man
and only after He gave him a “soul”.
How can we understand this scientific?
====== ========
1.
The “clay” is a proton.
2.
The “soul” is a quantum of light / electron.
3.
Interaction between proton and electron is created
simplest atom - atom of hydrogen.
4.
And atom is alive design.
The atom of hydrogen lives 12 minutes.
5.
After is created a complex atom.
6.
The evolution is continuing.
7.
And someone a long time ago has already said, that if
to give suffices time to atom of hydrogen, he will turn into Man.
===========.
Evolution of consciousness.
It was a hot summer day.
In the zoo, near the cage of gorilla the gapers gathered.
They laughed and threw bits of fruits and bread into the cage.
And gorilla was twirling round in the narrow cage, not finding enough room for itself.
Our eyes met and I saw agonizing pain in the eyes of gorilla.
Its eyes were human ones.
I gazed at it in astonishment.
Then I transferred my glance on the people.
They laughed and their eyes were brutal, soulless.
Silently I observed this picture.
Ones, having learned to walk on two feet and speak using human voice,
preserved the ferocious hatred.
The others, in the skin of an animal, already possess the human origin.
Links of one chain, of one evolutional civilization.
======..=============
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.
http://www.socratus.com
http://www.wbabin.net
http://www.wbabin.net/comments/sadovnik.htm
http://www.wbabin.net/physics/sadovnik.pdf
The chief of our local aboriginal people has some very interesting things to say about evolution. In their creation stories, humans were not material at first. They resided on the spirit plane. A very long time ago they began to experiment with taking on form. At first, some of those forms were part animal and part human, some all animal and some human. Thus, over time, humans evolved to the present configuration but some of the animals were created in the process and it is why so many early mythology contained creatures that were partly both. The Greek Minotaur and god Pan are a few but most aboriginal tribes world wide had variations on the theme.
I have run into this theory from other sources and puts a whole new spin on creationism and evolution, making them compatible. Of course, for die hard science fans, this is just more belief in magic but from a quantum physics point of view, may be possible.
Physical reality is a construct of conscious energy or it is consciousness or intelligence that give energy form, that arranges it in the patterns that give it shape and animate living things. I love this theory because it will piss off both creationists and evolutionists.
The physical sciences rely on physical evidence but that, to me, is too narrow a view, while creationists rely on ancient tales of gods that created us out of some magic ritual. Neither is satisfactory. But to believe that we created ourselves in a deliberate conscious experiment, that I find interesting and a lot more satisfactory. It blends myth, magic and science and puts that whole show at our control.
I have run into this theory from other sources and puts a whole new spin on creationism and evolution, making them compatible. Of course, for die hard science fans, this is just more belief in magic but from a quantum physics point of view, may be possible.
Physical reality is a construct of conscious energy or it is consciousness or intelligence that give energy form, that arranges it in the patterns that give it shape and animate living things. I love this theory because it will piss off both creationists and evolutionists.
The physical sciences rely on physical evidence but that, to me, is too narrow a view, while creationists rely on ancient tales of gods that created us out of some magic ritual. Neither is satisfactory. But to believe that we created ourselves in a deliberate conscious experiment, that I find interesting and a lot more satisfactory. It blends myth, magic and science and puts that whole show at our control.