Evolution - Possibly Not True

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
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Where does the information come from?

Once upon a time, 20 billions of years ago, all matter
(all elementary particles and all quarks and
their girlfriends- antiparticles and antiquarks,
all kinds of waves: electromagnetic, gravitational,
muons… gluons field ….. etc.) – were assembled in a “single point”.
It means that all information also was assembled in a "single point".
And then there was " big bang " and all information flew to bits
in different sides.
Suppose , that every bits of a "single point", every particle
of a "single point" is the owner of some information.
Then there are two possibilities:
a) every particle has the own information and after 20 billions years
they accidentally united and created everything including a man.
The aim of it is to observe all accidental possibilities.
b) in the beginning every particle has zero information .
Question :" How does zero information further arrive to a
very high informational level ? "
========.
If you go on way a) - so maybe yes, maybe no
you will pass through a forest of knowledge .
If you go on way b) - you will pass a forest of
theoretical knowledge along a straight road.
========.
Why I say so?
The visible matter of world is only a small part of all mass in the Universe.
More then 90% of the matter in the Universe is unseen," dark matter ".
Nobody knows what it is and therefore it is possible to say that more
then 90% of information is hiding and unknown to us.
So our aim must be to study "dark particles " or…..
………..
We know, there is no information transfer
without energy transfer. More correct : there is no quant
information transfer without quant energy transfer.
And the electron has the least electric charge.
It means it has some quant of the least information.
What can electron do with this information?
Let us look the Mendeleev / Moseley periodic table.
We can see at first, that electron does, it interacts with proton
and creates atom of hydrogen. This is simplest design,
which was created by electron.
And we can see how this information grows and reaches
high informational level. And the most complex design,
which was created by electron is the Man.
The Man is alive essence. Animals, birds, fish are alive essences.
And an atom? And atom is also alive design.
The free atom of hydrogen can live about 1000 seconds.
And someone a long time ago has already said, that if
to give suffices time to atom of hydrogen, he would turn into Man.
Really, it is not beautiful, is it ?
Maybe it is better not to search about "dark, virtual particles "
but to understand what the electron is,
because even now nobody knows what electron is.
=======================
Was I mistaken? No.
Because according to Pauli Exclusion Principle
only one single electron can be in the atom.
This electron reanimates the atom.
This electron manages the atom.
If the atom contains more than one electron
(for example - two), this atom represents " Siamese twins".
Save us, the Great God, of having such atoms, such children!
Each of us has an Electron, but we do not know it.
========.
Why does only electron have quant of information?
Maybe does proton also have quant of information?
No. Single proton has no quant of information.
Why?
Because information can be transfered only by
electromagnetic fields. And we don’t have a theory
about protono-magnetic fields.
==============.
Many years ago man has accustomed some wild
animals (wolf, horse, cat, bull , etc.)
and has made them domestic ones.
But the man understands badly the four-footed friends.
In 1897 J. J. Thomson discovered new particle - electron.
Gradually man has accustomed electron to work for him.
But the man does not understand what an electron is.
==============
For my peasant logic at first it is better to understand
the closest thing (for example an electron) and then
to study the far away space and particles
(for example dark, black, virtual …etc particles).
============.
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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The chief of our local aboriginal people has some very interesting things to say about evolution. In their creation stories, humans were not material at first. They resided on the spirit plane. A very long time ago they began to experiment with taking on form. At first, some of those forms were part animal and part human, some all animal and some human. Thus, over time, humans evolved to the present configuration but some of the animals were created in the process and it is why so many early mythology contained creatures that were partly both. The Greek Minotaur and god Pan are a few but most aboriginal tribes world wide had variations on the theme.

I have run into this theory from other sources and puts a whole new spin on creationism and evolution, making them compatible. Of course, for die hard science fans, this is just more belief in magic but from a quantum physics point of view, may be possible.

Physical reality is a construct of conscious energy or it is consciousness or intelligence that give energy form, that arranges it in the patterns that give it shape and animate living things. I love this theory because it will piss off both creationists and evolutionists.

The physical sciences rely on physical evidence but that, to me, is too narrow a view, while creationists rely on ancient tales of gods that created us out of some magic ritual. Neither is satisfactory. But to believe that we created ourselves in a deliberate conscious experiment, that I find interesting and a lot more satisfactory. It blends myth, magic and science and puts that whole show at our control.

Why do people try to take the square peg of science and force it down the round hole of religion...don't they know that when they knock the corners off, then it's not science anymore...
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Why do people try to take the square peg of science and force it down the round hole of religion...don't they know that when they knock the corners off, then it's not science anymore...

Precisely because it is a square peg. It really isn't whole lot of fun. I don't particularly believe in any of it but I like to play with theories, that is to take them outside the box for some fresh air. In the end, all we ever do, when contemplating our origins, is so much mental masturbation anyway. Whether it is science or religion, we are just entertaining ourselves so why not make it fun.
I really think you would enjoy "What the Bleep Do We Know". Highly entertaining and enlightening overview on how quantum physics and mechanics work in our every day lives.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ontario
I think it is more plausible than Noah putting 50,000 species on a 450 ft boat.

Kreskin, are you sure it is 50,000 ? I would think it may be closer to 50 million. Some creationists believe in intra species evolution (they believe that all breeds of dog evolved from one species, all species of snakes evolved from one species and so on), others don’t. If the purists are to be believed, the arc must have been huge, it had to accommodate several million species.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Ontario
Hm, that's a good point, Kreskin.

However, I think I'd need a more elaborate description of the ark, and to know, in fact, which type of apple of which Eve partook, in order to come to an informed decision. (An interesting read, Graeme, but I don't agree with the suspicious premise under which the points above are analyzed.)

I think Garden of Eden tale is probably a warmed over tale from some other mythology. Apples are not even indigenous to Middle East (where Garden of Eden is supposed to have existed). It would have been a more credible story if the snake had tempted Eve to eat a fig or a date, rather than an apple.
 

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
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Israel
www.worldnpa.org
“ I believe because it is absurd. “
/ Tertullian. (ca.160 – ca.220 AD) /
=======..
‘I believe in Physics because it’s absurd’
Would you ever say such a thing to a modern man ?
I doubt it.
Most of us would be asking God’s forgiveness for even thinking it.
But.
=============…
What is our intellect ?
1.
We don't know what we are talking about"
/ Nobel laureate David Gross referring to the current state of string theory ./
2.
It is important to realize that in physics today,
we have no knowledge of what energy is.
We do not have a picture that energy comes in little
blobs of a definite amount. ”
(Feynman. 1987)
3.
When asked which interpretation of QM he favored,
Feynman replied: "Shut up and calculate."
4.
when I was first learning quantum mechanics as a graduate student
at Harvard, a mere 30 years after the birth of the subject.
"You'll never get a PhD if you allow yourself to be distracted
by such frivolities," they kept advising me, "so get back to serious
business and produce some results."
"Shut up," in other words, "and calculate."
And so I did, and probably turned out much the better for it.
/ N. David Mermin /
5.
The problem of the exact description of vacuum, in my opinion,
is the basic problem now before physics. Really, if you can’t correctly
describe the vacuum, how it is possible to expect a correct description
of something more complex?
Paul Dirac .
6.
“ Young man, in mathematics you don't understand things,
you just get used to them.”
/ John von Neumann ./
7.
Since the mathematical physicists have taken over,
theoretical physics has gone to pot.
The bizarre concepts generated out of the over use and
misinterpretation of mathematics would be funny if it were not
for the tragedy of the waste in time,
manpower, money, and the resulting misdirection.
/ Richard Feynman./
8.
" I feel that we do not have definite physical concepts at all
if we just apply working mathematical rules;
that's not what the physicist should be satisfied with."
/Dirac /
9.
In his 1997 book ” The End of Certainty” Nobel Laureate
Ilya Prigogine wrote:
"The more we know about our universe, the more difficult
it becomes to believe in determinism."
And “ The quantum paradox is real nightmare for classic mind ”
10.
In his book ” Quantum theory “ ( published in 2002 )
John Polkinghorne wrote:
“Quantum theory is certainly strange and surprising,…”
/ chapter 6, part “ Quantum hype”, page 92 /
11.
Etc……..………………….
#
What is our intellect ?
We can see this practically :
after “ big bang “ all Galaxies run away from us.
======================..
Conclusion from some article:
"One of the best kept secrets of science is that physicists
have lost their grip on reality."
=================..
The physical education.

The more I study the more I know.
The more I know the more ideas I have.
The more ideas I have the more they abstract.
The more they abstract the less I know the truth.
=====.
Some years ago I told with young physicist (!!!).
He said very confidently: ” You cannot be physicist (!)
if you cannot understand the beauty of Minkowski
mathematics.(!!!)
======.
It seems that he is right, because physicists must know
mathematics very well. The problem is that nobody
knows what is real physical meaning of “ 4-D negative
space continuum.” in the Nature. SRT is correct theory
but Minkowski space continuum is abstract. And together
they are paradoxical. More than 100 years we live with
this paradox. Nobody confuses.
==========.
During our conversation I understand that this young physicist
is strong and clever man and he want to reach success. And
I think he will do it. So, in the future he will create new
D/ M-spaces or new symmetries or discover new particles.
And one day he will be a professor and will teach new
generation ( your son or your daughter) in order that they also
have possibility to create new D/ M-spaces or new symmetries
or discover new particles. But if in the beginning the abstract
ideas were put into the fundament of physics then ……..
we can create new and new theories for 1000 years but
the result will be the same - paradoxical.
#
This is our normal intellect in our normal Orwell’s farm.
============..
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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Actually...I think diet plays a large role...I mean, we have adapted for so many years based, partly, on obtaining food, and as the diet changed...so did the body. We still have some toss backs to a different time, when we ate in a different way...including wisdom teeth, and canines, various organs that can be removed with little problem... part of the reason we don't really need them is because our diet has changed.

Back to teeth...more and more people are being born without wisdom teeth or with very small wisdom teeth. Our lack of need to chase down food anymore has been important in our evolution. It has allowed obesity to become a larger problem...and the problem itself, and various problems related to it are being genetically transfered to the next generations.

Um...I'm not thinking very clearly tonight, so I don't know if I made the argument very strong, or in the best way, but...well...that's the basics from my point of view.
I think diet plays a role also. We had a filbert bush at our place in the Okanagan and it acquired leaf rollers one time. Every third year I changed pesticide control because the varmints had evolved an immunity to what I had been using. I used 3 different ones and used each for only 2 years.
But I suppose that what one calls evolution is relative. To me it if a species changes in a general fashion, it has evolved.

hehehe So creation evolved from human imagination. Hasn't changed in 2000 years? Must be stagnant like its creator's imagination. :D
 
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Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
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I think Garden of Eden tale is probably a warmed over tale from some other mythology. Apples are not even indigenous to Middle East (where Garden of Eden is supposed to have existed). It would have been a more credible story if the snake had tempted Eve to eat a fig or a date, rather than an apple.

Hmmm, the Bible says it was a 'fruit' not an apple.....
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Regina, SK
It does? Than why everywhere it says an apple? I haven't come across a version of the story where snake tempts eve to eat a fruit, it is always an apple.
It might be due to the way the endings of words change in Latin depending on context, and some confusion involving the early 5th century Latin version of the Bible called the Vulgate. The Bible records that Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, without specifying anything about the fruit itself. The Latin form for the word evil in that context, as the object of a preposition, is malum, and that's the word the Vulgate uses. Malum also means apple in Latin.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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Really? I thought it was only in the last century or so that humans have increased their average body size significantly, and that's got nothing to do with evolution. Evolution doesn't work on that short a time scale, it's just better diet and medical care. Have you got a reference for that, Champloo? I'd like to know more about that.
Um, human evolution doesn't work that quickly. Other critters, on the other hand, .....
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are created and nothing ever evolves. Haven't you heard? :D

Apples are evil.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
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Regina, SK
... are created and nothing ever evolves. Haven't you heard? :D
Tiresomely many times...
Apples are evil.
Agreed. Best thing to do with them is rip their skins off, dismember them into little pieces, surround them with pastry (with a little sugar and cinnamon, to your taste) and heat them to 350 degrees for about an hour. That'll teach the buggers... :smile: