Every Knee and Tongue
- Thread starter Motar
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Isaiah is a warning to the Jews to repent and accept their suffering saviour sent by God to deliver them from their own inequities.
The microscopic view of Isaiah 45 does indeed pertain to ancient Israel and their contemporaries, HK. The telescopic view, however extends forward and backward in time and universally to include "all you ends of the earth." (v22)
It is both a warning: "All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame", (v24) and a promise: "But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the LORD and will make their boast in him." (v25)
In the Old Testament, believers are known as "descendants of Israel". In the New Testament they are known as "children of Abraham". Both are spiritual, not biological designations: "Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham." (Galatians 3:7 NIV)
How can those who have faith become children of Abraham? Before Jesus there was only the law and only the children of Abraham (the Jews) kept it. But with Jesus a new covenant was made. It was no longer the law(works) but justification by faith in Jesus, which the children of Abraham rejected by rejecting Jesus. Therefore the Gentiles are neither bound to the laws, Abraham or Moses and unlike Jews those Gentiles who accept by faith are saved by faith alone.
Gal 3:23 Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.
"So also Abraham 'believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.' Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: 'All nations will be blessed through you.' So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith." (Galatians 3:6-9 NIV)
Abrahams covenant with God was through circumcision. But the bible portrays Abraham as a pimp. He pimped his wife to the pharaoh and was rewarded for her services to the pharosh. Abraham does it again with Abimelech and pimps Sarah to him. Again he is well rewarded and becomes wealthy. Why isn't it surprising that God would chose Abraham a pimp to be the model for Jews and their descendants.
But God sent Jesus to get the Jews to repent and accept the new kingdom of heaven.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
"When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, 'I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.' Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 'As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.' Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you." (Genesis 17:1-11 NIV)
In my Bible, HK, it is God who initiates the covenant, not Abraham.
It is an everlasting covenant that can only exist between everlasting beings. The natural man cannot keep/reap the results of an everlasting covenant due to the limitations of the flesh. So this covenant is between God and the spiritual offspring of Abraham.
A-Brahm, (Hindu), meaning "non-Brahm." Abraham, the first seed of the god, got to to love how old that old time religion is
He was to light the wick of intelligence for the lower being. He was to kindle a fire in the body, but not be burned thereby. But it is said that the waywardness of the gods pretty badly marred the progress of the work. As a group they had bound themselves under a covenant to do the work promptly and return. But earth currents overwhelmed them, swept them into forgetfulness, and they truly lost their divine heads and were carried down into sensuous life and sexual procreation. The passage from Plotinus tells why the first essay of Phaëthon to drive the chariot of the Sun resulted in a wild orgy of uncontrolled movement. The seven charges drawing the chariot proved unmanageable for the untested powers of the young god. He gave himself to the delight of a wild revel in the sensual enjoyment of life, and the thrill of adventure tingled through his blood as he indulged his fancy in free creational direction of energies. His drive was outward, and he threw himself into the interests of the lower vehicle. And here lurks the rationale of his changed character from Lucifer to Satan. http://pc93.tripod.com/lostlght.htm
If the sense of shame was not inherent in the anthropological situation at the beginning, it was developed and strengthened by the wild license or "Harlotry" in which the first groups of the Sons of God indulged with the females of the higher animal species after reaching earth. There seems to have been a long period of sexual miscegenation, the experience of which would have imprinted the reaction of shame lastingly upon the sub-conscious psyche of early humanity. This is perhaps the "evil concupiscence" against which Paul crusades in his Epistles. And it is significant that in a later passage in the first chapter of Romans, in which Paul states that God gave them up to a reprobate mind to do the things "which are not convenient," he adds as their final description that they were "covenant-breakers." We protest that
this takes his preachment out of the rank of mere pious homiletics and makes it referable to the racial predicament we are dealing with. Greek philosophy speaks of the violation of "broad oaths fast sealed."
Reverting for a moment to the philosophic analysis of evil, it is highly desirable that the view of Platonic systematism should be gleaned from a few pointed excerpts. Near the end of his two great volumes on the theology of Plato Proclus dilates at length upon the nature of evil in grand fashion. There is not such a thing, he says, as
"unmixed evil or evil itself, or an eternal idea, form and essence of evil; but moral evil is mixed with good, and so far as it is good, it subsists from divinity; but so far as it is evil, it is derived from another cause which is impotent. For evil is nothing else than a greater or less declination, departure, defect and privation from the good itself . . . in the same manner as darkness from (want of) the sun. It is debility and absence of power. And that which is evil to partial natures, is not evil to the universe."
Christian aberrancy from high philosophy can be seen in the erection of evil into a positive, active force and personifying it in a semi-deity.
Evil is only a by-product of the good on its march to full development. Proclus has further enlightenment for us, which should not be missed:
"Evil in souls is a debility of not always and uniformly adhering to better natures and to the good. Hence arises their descent to things subordinate, their oblivion, their malefic inclination to things conversant with body, and their dischord with reason. According to some, matter is that which is primarily evil, and is evil itself, and the debility of souls arises from their lapse into matter."
It is evident that the tabernacle which the Eternal ordered Moses to build, in which he might dwell with his children, the Israelites, and eventually be raised up, is but another form of typism for the inner shrine of the sanctuary, the holy of holies in the ark of the covenant. And this in turn is depicted under the water emblemism as the ship of the sun, or boat of Ra. The exchange of passengers from the boat of Horus to the ship of Ra betokened the successful completion of the incarnation cycles. It was the index of their new birth, which was not now that of water. For they had finished the water baptism at that point, and were to enter upon the baptism of fire, which would
induct them into the spiritual universe. The solar bark was to pick up the survivors of the mundane sea voyage and transport them across the expanse of a kingdom of air and fire, which required a boat of airy and fiery texture.
Ripping good stuff! Down on your knees! Sunshine is god!
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If the sense of shame was not inherent in the anthropological situation at the beginning, it was developed and strengthened by the wild license or "Harlotry" in which the first groups of the Sons of God indulged with the females of the higher animal species after reaching earth. There seems to have been a long period of sexual miscegenation, the experience of which would have imprinted the reaction of shame lastingly upon the sub-conscious psyche of early humanity. This is perhaps the "evil concupiscence" against which Paul crusades in his Epistles. And it is significant that in a later passage in the first chapter of Romans, in which Paul states that God gave them up to a reprobate mind to do the things "which are not convenient," he adds as their final description that they were "covenant-breakers." We protest that
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Reverting for a moment to the philosophic analysis of evil, it is highly desirable that the view of Platonic systematism should be gleaned from a few pointed excerpts. Near the end of his two great volumes on the theology of Plato Proclus dilates at length upon the nature of evil in grand fashion. There is not such a thing, he says, as
"unmixed evil or evil itself, or an eternal idea, form and essence of evil; but moral evil is mixed with good, and so far as it is good, it subsists from divinity; but so far as it is evil, it is derived from another cause which is impotent. For evil is nothing else than a greater or less declination, departure, defect and privation from the good itself . . . in the same manner as darkness from (want of) the sun. It is debility and absence of power. And that which is evil to partial natures, is not evil to the universe."
Christian aberrancy from high philosophy can be seen in the erection of evil into a positive, active force and personifying it in a semi-deity.
Evil is only a by-product of the good on its march to full development. Proclus has further enlightenment for us, which should not be missed:
"Evil in souls is a debility of not always and uniformly adhering to better natures and to the good. Hence arises their descent to things subordinate, their oblivion, their malefic inclination to things conversant with body, and their dischord with reason. According to some, matter is that which is primarily evil, and is evil itself, and the debility of souls arises from their lapse into matter."
It is evident that the tabernacle which the Eternal ordered Moses to build, in which he might dwell with his children, the Israelites, and eventually be raised up, is but another form of typism for the inner shrine of the sanctuary, the holy of holies in the ark of the covenant. And this in turn is depicted under the water emblemism as the ship of the sun, or boat of Ra. The exchange of passengers from the boat of Horus to the ship of Ra betokened the successful completion of the incarnation cycles. It was the index of their new birth, which was not now that of water. For they had finished the water baptism at that point, and were to enter upon the baptism of fire, which would
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Ripping good stuff! Down on your knees! Sunshine is god!
From the Online Etymology Dictionary, DB:
Abraham
masc. proper name, name of the first of the patriarchs in the Old Testament, from Hebrew Abraham "father of a multitude," from abh "father" + *raham (cognate with Arabic ruham "multitude"); the name he altered from Abram "high father," from second element ram "high, exalted." Related: Abrahamic. Online Etymology Dictionary
The patriarch is the male, spirit, essence, reason bourne of light, the Sun, Abraham was born in Ur, the lake of fire. Abraham made the clay live. The old testament is not very old. Everything in it is from a past ten thousand years removed. It is or was universal, global, and still fragments of the rites are still carried on, from the American totem poles to Aztec palaces every people had the same religion.
Abraham was famous in the Kamite kingdoms and the far east long before Hebrews learned how to write.
Also he came out of Ur, of the Chaldees (or Kasadim), which is another key word, since Ur is the Chaldean word for "fire," the celestial empyrean, out of which all souls, as fiery sparks, are emanated. Kasadim, or Kasdim, was a term given to the highest celestial spirits, who fathered the production of the divine sparks of soul. It is practically equivalent to "Archangels." Then Abraham went straight to Egypt from the land of Canaan, and his descendants were to suffer bondage in that lower country. It is a crushing blow to the historical rendering of Bible narrative to declare, on evidence that is incontrovertible, that the "Egypt" of the scriptures is not the country on the map. It is the term used in the allegories to designate the plane, state or "land" of embodied life, life on earth. "Egypt" is just this earth, or the state or locale of bodily life on it. It even at times connotes the physical body itself, as in "the flesh pots of Egypt." Hence the descent of Abraham, and later of the twelve sons of Jacob, into "Egypt" are again the fable of the soul’s adventure here. If the term Egypt is taken as the geographical unit, many passages in which it occurs will be found to read as sheer nonsense. Had theology known that "the strange land" and "the far country" were glyphs for this earth of ours, greater sanity would have marked the counsels of ecclesiasticism down the centuries. If the "bondage in
Egypt, that slave pen," as the Eternal repeatedly calls it (in the Moffatt translation), has been in some way interlocked with an historical servitude (as may have been the case), it still does not prove that the allegory intended to recount the bondage of a nation. It was a bondage of spirit under sense that was thus portrayed. Many passages from the Old Testament books refer to the Israelites as captives, outcasts, expatriates and exiles, matching Greek, Egyptian and Gnostic terminology, and alluding of course to the expulsion of the angelic hosts from a celestial Paradise to a bleak earthly exile. The sons of God had to go to Egypt also in order that fulfillment might be given to the hoary scriptural line from the Mystery drama: "Out of Egypt have I called my Son." For resurgent deity in the wandering exiles would eventually lead them back to their home on high.http://pc93.tripod.com/lostlght.htm
Abraham was famous in the Kamite kingdoms and the far east long before Hebrews learned how to write.
Also he came out of Ur, of the Chaldees (or Kasadim), which is another key word, since Ur is the Chaldean word for "fire," the celestial empyrean, out of which all souls, as fiery sparks, are emanated. Kasadim, or Kasdim, was a term given to the highest celestial spirits, who fathered the production of the divine sparks of soul. It is practically equivalent to "Archangels." Then Abraham went straight to Egypt from the land of Canaan, and his descendants were to suffer bondage in that lower country. It is a crushing blow to the historical rendering of Bible narrative to declare, on evidence that is incontrovertible, that the "Egypt" of the scriptures is not the country on the map. It is the term used in the allegories to designate the plane, state or "land" of embodied life, life on earth. "Egypt" is just this earth, or the state or locale of bodily life on it. It even at times connotes the physical body itself, as in "the flesh pots of Egypt." Hence the descent of Abraham, and later of the twelve sons of Jacob, into "Egypt" are again the fable of the soul’s adventure here. If the term Egypt is taken as the geographical unit, many passages in which it occurs will be found to read as sheer nonsense. Had theology known that "the strange land" and "the far country" were glyphs for this earth of ours, greater sanity would have marked the counsels of ecclesiasticism down the centuries. If the "bondage in
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From the Online Etymology Dictionary:
etymology
late 14c., ethimolegia "facts of the origin and development of a word," from Old French etimologie, ethimologie (14c., Modern French étymologie), from Latin etymologia, from Greek etymologia "analysis of a word to find its true origin," properly "study of the true sense (of a word)," with -logia "study of, a speaking of" (see -logy) + etymon "true sense," neuter of etymos "true, real, actual," related to eteos "true," which perhaps is cognate with Sanskrit satyah, Gothic sunjis, Old English soð "true."
Latinized by Cicero as veriloquium. In classical times, with reference to meanings; later, to histories. Classical etymologists, Christian and pagan, based their explanations on allegory and guesswork, lacking historical records as well as the scientific method to analyze them, and the discipline fell into disrepute that lasted a millennium. Flaubert ["Dictionary of Received Ideas"] wrote that the general view was that etymology was "the easiest thing in the world with the help of Latin and a little ingenuity."
As a modern branch of linguistic science treating of the origin and evolution of words, from 1640s. As "account of the particular history of a word" from mid-15c. Related: Etymological; etymologically. Online Etymology Dictionary
I rather like etymology, DB, as it looks behind evolutions/permutations and systematically searches out origins : )
Good for you, so did the author of the book I'm so fond of quoting, and so did the others. Who you gonna believe? In the end it will be left up to you to decide what you believe. To me the beginning is the beginning and that beginning was in the memories and then in the symbology and then many thousands of years later cut into stone and left for us.
You read allegory as history and you miss the message of symbolism, one symbol is worth a thousand words. Without the allegory you have the idolatry of worship of the Christ reduced to material, mere meat.Even the pagans didn't do that.
It was always about the light and the mind in it.
I so agree, DB. Reading history as allegory equally derails understanding:
"One of the most important aspects of the human side of the Bible is that, in order to communicate his Word to all human conditions, God chose to use almost every kind of available communication: narrative history, genealogies, chronicles, laws, poetry, proverbs, prophetic oracles, riddles, drama, biographical sketches, parable, letters, sermons, and apocalypses. To interpret properly the "then and there" of the biblical texts, you must not only know some general rules that apply to all words of the Bible, but you also need to learn the special rules that apply to each of these literary forms (genres)."
Fee, Gordon D. and Douglas, Stuart. (2003). How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Don't you think it peculiar that, as you suppose, the omnipotent god used the tools of men (as yet uninvented) to instruct mankind as to his presence and prominence? Don't you think that the power of god was made evident to the infant man the instant his eyes opened upon gods works? I believe strongly that among the earliest utilities of god that the stomach was perhaps orders of magnitude more useful than unimagined narrative. The animal man was formed in matter and that is where the story begins. It does not, I think, begin in Grand Rapids Mi although oweing to the several catyclismic periods we suspect I suppose it could do just as well as any other geograpic location. Let nature be your quide, I heard.
It was a dull beast indeed if it did not feel directly and intimately the radiant benevolence of the sun and failed to know it's master.
Don't you think it peculiar that, as you suppose, the omnipotent god used the tools of men (as yet uninvented) to instruct mankind as to his presence and prominence? Don't you think that the power of god was made evident to the infant man the instant his eyes opened upon gods works? I believe strongly that among the earliest utilities of god that the stomach was perhaps orders of magnitude more useful than unimagined narrative. The animal man was formed in matter and that is where the story begins. It does not, I think, begin in Grand Rapids Mi although oweing to the several catyclismic periods we suspect I suppose it could do just as well as any other geograpic location. Let nature be your quide, I heard.
It was a dull beast indeed if it did not feel directly and intimately the radiant benevolence of the sun and failed to know it's master.
By God's design, DB, knowing his presence and prominence is a cooperative effort between God and man. So yes, it makes perfect sense for God to make himself known utilizing the particular tools and context of mankind.
Yes, infants are in the presence of God at the moment of opened eyes as God is omnipresent in creation, in Israel, in His written record, in Immanuel and in His people.
The problem lies not with God's self-revelation but with man's capacity/will to see Him. Consider the parable of the soils recorded in Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8. It is the infertility of the receptor soils that thwarts germination and growth, not the seed. Again, a cooperative effort by the God's design.
God being omnipresent is as present in Grand Rapids, MI as say, RR1 Distopia, 666 Discordia, Cardboardton. His reception at these locations is influenced by the condition of the Receptors living there : )
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The soul is baptized in the waters of the womb, conception is the fall of spirit into the water.The minds eye is opened from then. The wedding. I'm thinking you are right about that capacity but wrong about the soil. The seed is imperishable and the soil will yield even if it takes ten thousand years of mortal torment walking in the vally of the shadow of death. Mans capacity is masterfully thwarted by the Bible and that by design. The best clue in biblical study is the ancient meaning of death expounded by the seers. The death of the body is not discused they refer to the souls figurative death in matter. After that revelation the bible is a little easier to understand, but it's still a cobbled and stitched mess, and there is not an original parragraph in it. There's no going back into the fear and dark of modern christianty. I am christian however but of a much earlier church.
Revelation Chapter 11
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-11-8/
8 And there dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-11-8/
8 And there dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
There's no going back into the fear and dark of modern christianty. I am christian however but of a much earlier church.
I am a contemporary Christian, DB, but fear and darkness find no home in me. The Spirit of Christ within evicts and replaces them with peace and light. I would be interested in hearing about your christianity - how it came about and how it has impacted your life.
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