Ethnic cleansing of Anglos in Quebec
- Thread starter Mediana
- Start date
Not only Quebec has to adopt new laws in order to protect its language. Look at what is being done in Ireland:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4388061.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4388061.stm
jackd said:
...and are those areas of Ireland going to declare themselves sovereign nations any time soon...probably not...
As far as i can remember, no one has declared themselves sovereign nation in Canada yet.
But like Quebec, Ireland has been seriously talking about their Independence from London for years.
As they say, Rome was not built in one day.......
http://www.thirdway.org/files/world/ulstern.html
...and I've always thought that the FLQ acted very much like the IRA...I wonder if we are to expect more of that nonsense after the next referendum...
Re: RE: Ethnic cleansing of Anglos in Quebec
I agree with that as well, and the same could be said of the IRA, except that they do garner the support of the Irish Catholics...
At the time of the FLQ Crisis, and before the invoking of the War Measures Act, I'm sure that there were more than a few separtists that were grinning about the whole affair with Cross and Laporte...
I think it wasn't until after Trudeau invoked the War Measures Act that they realize how badly they f**ked up...
At that time, Canada could very easily have become another Northern Ireland...
I don't support the suspension of civil liberties for any reason, but in this instance it got the job done...
jackd said:
I agree with that as well, and the same could be said of the IRA, except that they do garner the support of the Irish Catholics...
At the time of the FLQ Crisis, and before the invoking of the War Measures Act, I'm sure that there were more than a few separtists that were grinning about the whole affair with Cross and Laporte...
I think it wasn't until after Trudeau invoked the War Measures Act that they realize how badly they f**ked up...
At that time, Canada could very easily have become another Northern Ireland...
I don't support the suspension of civil liberties for any reason, but in this instance it got the job done...
gregbarrett said:
I am a French Student in Québec and we, students, learn already Spanish and, at my school, we get more Spanish class than English... That's why I'm better for speaking Spanish than English!
Is it true that the Spanish and French are similar in origion? My other half has taken courses in both and found that they are very easy to learn together.
gerryh said:
:lol: This reminds me of a quote by Albert Einstein: " If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
Jo Canadian said:
Spanish and French are very similar languages... It has been 3 years that I started to learn Spanish and now I can talk easily this language (vocabular and grammar are the same as French)... for my English, like all the other students of my school, I don't like this language so it has been 6 years that I learnt English and as you can see my English is very worst !
Perhaps a little off topic here, but many Chinese here also hate English after ten years of learning it. here's how one put it to me:
We spend years learning your language, buying your textbooks and CD's, hiring your teachers, and spending our money in your universities, just so that your English-speaking countries can suck up our best minds, and sell your products to us in your language, thus making you all richer still, with your language itself becoming a major industry. (of course his English was much worse; I cleaned it up a lot here).
My response? In paraphrase, I basically pointed the finger back to him and said "Who's forcing you all to learn English"
"Our government. If we don't pass the national English exam, we don't graduate, and if we don't pass the CET 4, we can't get into a master's program." (again a praphrase) I'm sure he hated his answer! and he's not the only one I've heard it from. Here I am in China doing business. Not my fault they all want to study English so fanatically. It's theirs.
We spend years learning your language, buying your textbooks and CD's, hiring your teachers, and spending our money in your universities, just so that your English-speaking countries can suck up our best minds, and sell your products to us in your language, thus making you all richer still, with your language itself becoming a major industry. (of course his English was much worse; I cleaned it up a lot here).
My response? In paraphrase, I basically pointed the finger back to him and said "Who's forcing you all to learn English"
"Our government. If we don't pass the national English exam, we don't graduate, and if we don't pass the CET 4, we can't get into a master's program." (again a praphrase) I'm sure he hated his answer! and he's not the only one I've heard it from. Here I am in China doing business. Not my fault they all want to study English so fanatically. It's theirs.
cub1c said:
Man, so those people in la Malbaie and Roberval must really be stupid if they can't learn English to a decent level. Heck, I'd even come across quite a few in Quebec city, and even a small handful in Montreal and Gatineau who couldn't speak English decently. While I know French, I do like to test this stuff out now and then and just pretend not to know it and see how well people can handle English. I'm not impressed. It's about the same as English speakers in English Canada knowing French. Oh, and by the way, I'm always polite and even apologetic when I'm acting like this, so it's not like they're just trying to be rude.
cub1c said:
Man, so those people in la Malbaie and Roberval must really be stupid if they can't learn English to a decent level. Heck, I'd even come across quite a few in Quebec city, and even a small handful in Montreal and Gatineau who couldn't speak English decently. While I know French, I do like to test this stuff out now and then and just pretend not to know it and see how well people can handle English. I'm not impressed. It's about the same as English speakers in English Canada knowing French. Oh, and by the way, I'm always polite and even apologetic when I'm acting like this, so it's not like they're just trying to be rude.
Re: RE: Ethnic cleansing of Anglos in Quebec
I suspect there's a misunderstanding going on there, sinse some of the argument doesn't seem to flow very smoothly in the previous threads to this one, and remember, I don't think english is his native language. I've noticed more than a bit of 'unnatural' Englihs in the arguments as well.
Don't you love Canada, where we get to argue past one anotehr thinking we understand one another, when we might really be arguning over teh misuse of some word or other? And even if what was said was meant, due to teh unnaturalness of teh language, some then have to always double guess what was intended?
LadyC said:
I suspect there's a misunderstanding going on there, sinse some of the argument doesn't seem to flow very smoothly in the previous threads to this one, and remember, I don't think english is his native language. I've noticed more than a bit of 'unnatural' Englihs in the arguments as well.
Don't you love Canada, where we get to argue past one anotehr thinking we understand one another, when we might really be arguning over teh misuse of some word or other? And even if what was said was meant, due to teh unnaturalness of teh language, some then have to always double guess what was intended?
Jo Canadian said:
They have the same roots, classical latin. French, Spanish, Portugese and Italien all the same roots, and much of the structure of language is identical. Usually pronouciation, and a few letters are the only difference. Heritage of the roman empire.
Numure said:
People only learn other languages out of necessity or out of sheer interest. In that part of Quebec, unless you do a lot of business with firms outside of Quebec, you really would have no need to learn Anglais.
I did a summer long French language program in Rivière-du-loup where I lived with a family and hardly anyone in the town spoke English, it was great cause you really couldn't cheat. You had to speak French, unlike other locations for the program like Montreal or Hull where you could get away with English.
The only issue I've ever had in Quebec was when I've attempted to speak French (when I was worse off) and some people would immediately switch to English. I mean, I knew I wasn't very good and was slow, but I was trying. Half the people switch cause they think they are making things easier for you, which is okay. But some people gave dirty looks with real attitude and were generally rude, which was discouraging.
I know if someone from Quebec came here and spoke in broken English I would switch to French, but I wouldn't be rude about it and if I knew they were trying to practice English, I wouldn't switch, I would help and correct them where necessary.
Interesting points here. So I'd like to add to them.
"People only learn other languages out of necessity or out of sheer interest. In that part of Quebec, unless you do a lot of business with firms outside of Quebec, you really would have no need to learn Anglais."
And that's one reason I think it would be wise for the Province of Quebec to allow students to choose from among a few languages in high school, and not just English. Grammatically, English is tough to say the least, and so if one doesn't have the proper environment or motivation to learn it, then it's just a waste of his time, and whoever's money. Multiply that by the 500 000 people in the Saguenay Lac St-Jean area alone, and that adds up to alot of time (I can't remember who in this thread, while typing in broken English, had mentionned having studied English for the last nine years!) and money. Now immagine, if one student spends nine years of English study (I don't know how many hours that is precisely, but am too lazy at the moment to do the math, but it sure adds up to alot), I can only immagine how many hours of study that adds up to for 500 000 people who could have spent that class time learning something which might be more beneficial to society as a whole. And I don't even want to think about the amount of money involved for 500 000 people. Now add up the rest of the province of Quebec! This is where the option of an easy langauge like Esperanto can be of benefit, sinse it can be taught by even inexperienced teachers who are studying the language only three months ahead of the students, even with a total lack of the target language environment, within two years, three at most for the slower students (as has been proven by research at the University of Monash in Australia)
"I did a summer long French language program in Rivière-du-loup where I lived with a family and hardly anyone in the town spoke English, it was great cause you really couldn't cheat. You had to speak French, unlike other locations for the program like Montreal or Hull where you could get away with English. "
No comment there.
"The only issue I've ever had in Quebec was when I've attempted to speak French (when I was worse off) and some people would immediately switch to English. I mean, I knew I wasn't very good and was slow, but I was trying. Half the people switch cause they think they are making things easier for you, which is okay. But some people gave dirty looks with real attitude and were generally rude, which was discouraging."
This is a common occurrence in China as well, and it ought not to surprise any English speaker anywhere he goes in the world today. English is in fact perceived by many as the world's current Lingua Franca, so it's natural that anyone who comes across a native speaker, at least in an area where native speakers aren't so common, they will want to practice their English; don't forget, for many, English is a graduation exam requirement, not a language per se! Here in China, it's common for people to come up to me to practice their English, or to pretend to be friends in order to practice their English. Solution? Refuse to speak English, and if they genuinely want to be friends, they'll stay; if just for English, they'll leave. But then again, it can also be rewarding to speak a common second language, sinse it then gives both parties involved an opportunity to develop, this mutual benefit thus strengthening the relationship more than either of the native languages can, sinse either of the native languages will generally benefit one party only. That's another reason why I think it could be of benefit if Quebec secondary schools gave students more language choices besides just English. Let's say, for example, that a French Canadian whose second language is Esperanto meets an English Canadian whose second language is also Esperanto, the mutual benefit their relation will provide can actually strengthen the relationship more than English would, for the reason mentionned above, that some English speakers also want to develop their language skills as well, Esperanto thus putting both parties on a relatively more equal footing.
"I know if someone from Quebec came here and spoke in broken English I would switch to French, but I wouldn't be rude about it and if I knew they were trying to practice English, I wouldn't switch, I would help and correct them where necessary."
Kind of you. I'd probably do the same. But I'm sure you'd feel even better if a Spaniard whose second language was French went there and spoke in Broken French, because then you'd also have an opportunity to develop your French at the same time. Would I be wrong on this point?
Numure said:
"People only learn other languages out of necessity or out of sheer interest. In that part of Quebec, unless you do a lot of business with firms outside of Quebec, you really would have no need to learn Anglais."
And that's one reason I think it would be wise for the Province of Quebec to allow students to choose from among a few languages in high school, and not just English. Grammatically, English is tough to say the least, and so if one doesn't have the proper environment or motivation to learn it, then it's just a waste of his time, and whoever's money. Multiply that by the 500 000 people in the Saguenay Lac St-Jean area alone, and that adds up to alot of time (I can't remember who in this thread, while typing in broken English, had mentionned having studied English for the last nine years!) and money. Now immagine, if one student spends nine years of English study (I don't know how many hours that is precisely, but am too lazy at the moment to do the math, but it sure adds up to alot), I can only immagine how many hours of study that adds up to for 500 000 people who could have spent that class time learning something which might be more beneficial to society as a whole. And I don't even want to think about the amount of money involved for 500 000 people. Now add up the rest of the province of Quebec! This is where the option of an easy langauge like Esperanto can be of benefit, sinse it can be taught by even inexperienced teachers who are studying the language only three months ahead of the students, even with a total lack of the target language environment, within two years, three at most for the slower students (as has been proven by research at the University of Monash in Australia)
"I did a summer long French language program in Rivière-du-loup where I lived with a family and hardly anyone in the town spoke English, it was great cause you really couldn't cheat. You had to speak French, unlike other locations for the program like Montreal or Hull where you could get away with English. "
No comment there.
"The only issue I've ever had in Quebec was when I've attempted to speak French (when I was worse off) and some people would immediately switch to English. I mean, I knew I wasn't very good and was slow, but I was trying. Half the people switch cause they think they are making things easier for you, which is okay. But some people gave dirty looks with real attitude and were generally rude, which was discouraging."
This is a common occurrence in China as well, and it ought not to surprise any English speaker anywhere he goes in the world today. English is in fact perceived by many as the world's current Lingua Franca, so it's natural that anyone who comes across a native speaker, at least in an area where native speakers aren't so common, they will want to practice their English; don't forget, for many, English is a graduation exam requirement, not a language per se! Here in China, it's common for people to come up to me to practice their English, or to pretend to be friends in order to practice their English. Solution? Refuse to speak English, and if they genuinely want to be friends, they'll stay; if just for English, they'll leave. But then again, it can also be rewarding to speak a common second language, sinse it then gives both parties involved an opportunity to develop, this mutual benefit thus strengthening the relationship more than either of the native languages can, sinse either of the native languages will generally benefit one party only. That's another reason why I think it could be of benefit if Quebec secondary schools gave students more language choices besides just English. Let's say, for example, that a French Canadian whose second language is Esperanto meets an English Canadian whose second language is also Esperanto, the mutual benefit their relation will provide can actually strengthen the relationship more than English would, for the reason mentionned above, that some English speakers also want to develop their language skills as well, Esperanto thus putting both parties on a relatively more equal footing.
"I know if someone from Quebec came here and spoke in broken English I would switch to French, but I wouldn't be rude about it and if I knew they were trying to practice English, I wouldn't switch, I would help and correct them where necessary."
Kind of you. I'd probably do the same. But I'm sure you'd feel even better if a Spaniard whose second language was French went there and spoke in Broken French, because then you'd also have an opportunity to develop your French at the same time. Would I be wrong on this point?