Er, sorry, but I'm no slave trader

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,451
1,668
113
Why should the British apologise for the slave trade? We were the first country to do something to stop it.


The Sunday Times - Review



The Sunday Times September 24, 2006


Er, sorry, but I'm no slave trader

Roland White


When it comes to the slave trade, Britain has much to be proud of - in 1807, she became the first country to abolish it.



A distant cousin has sent me a family tree which shows Whites stretching back to the early years of the 18th century. It has to be admitted, I’m afraid, that we are a pretty unremarkable bunch.

For about 150 years we lived quietly in a village just outside Bristol and did the odd spot of labouring. Then enterprising George White — the second of five generations of Georges — suddenly decided that he was sick to the back teeth of rural life and moved to London, where his descendants worked solidly at the Woolwich Arsenal for the next three generations as warehousemen and forklift truck drivers.

And that’s pretty much it. My great-uncle Albert played for Charlton Athletic, but was dropped the year before the team turned professional. The only other point of interest seems to be an early George, who married twice and had 12 children.

In a desperate effort to suck up to the royal family, he even called one of the boys Coburg. This didn’t do us much good, though. If Victoria and Albert were at all grateful, the offer of a dukedom seems to have been lost in the post. All in all, it looks as if I won’t be called upon to parade my ancestors before BBC2 viewers for Who Do You Think You Are?

My family lived near Bristol when that city would have been living high on the hog from the profit of slave trafficking. Yet if we got our hands on any of that cash you have my solemn oath that none of it has trickled down the generations. So I was rather annoyed to learn last week that the government is planning to apologise on the nation’s behalf for the slave trade.

A committee headed by Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott is considering something called “a statement of regret” to be issued solemnly on March 25 next year, the date that marks the 200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade. This is not technically an apology, but is something that parents will recognise as the next best thing. It is the government looking at its feet and mumbling a few words because it knows that otherwise it will be spending the next half an hour on the naughty step.

I don’t know who will be making this apology, but I would be very grateful if they would make it clear that they have no authority to speak on behalf of the White family, late of Westbury-on-Trym in Gloucestershire. Because, like many other families throughout the land, we do not appear to have actually done anything.

Not only did we play no part in slavery, but when we had a moment off from ploughing fields and building dry stone walls and sucking up to the Saxe-Coburgs we might even have been swept along in our modest way by the moral outrage that gripped the country in the late 18th century.

Far from being apologetic about slavery this country has much to be proud of. The abolition campaign had government support from an early stage. It was William Pitt, the dominant figure in the politics of the day, who urged his friend William Wilberforce to push the measure through the House of Commons.

Of course, we know that any apology is not really about slavery. It is about a much more modern issue: the uneasy relationship between black people and white people that can partly be blamed on the legacy of slavery in the West Indies and America. But slavery is not entirely what would be referred to these days as a white-on-black crime.

Years ago I watched a documentary about a group of black Americans who were on holiday in Africa, touring the slave sites. Many were in tears, having just discovered what went on at this end of the operation. They had just learnt the awful truth that the main suppliers of African slaves were themselves African. It was common practice for many years for the victors in battle to enslave their opponents. Suddenly, these victors discovered that they could also make a bit of money.

Jolly good business it was, too. King Tegbesu, who ruled what is now Benin, apparently made £250,000 a year from selling slaves in 1750. According to my own rough calculations, this is the modern equivalent of £25m a year. And he is not the only African who grew fat on the profits of slave trading.

The word “slave” is derived from the Slavs who were shipped from central Europe across the Mediterranean to Africa. From a book called The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas, I also learn that 30,000 Christian slaves were sent to Damascus when the Moors conquered Spain in the 8th century. According to the Domesday Book there were 25,000 slaves in England in the 11th century.

So let’s all enjoy a good knees-up in March. Let’s have street parties and debates on Start The Week and we might even sit quietly while Prescott makes a speech about Wilberforce and Hull.

But let’s not pretend that the British were wholly responsible for the plight of African slaves. Slavery was a long established and widespread evil: the difference is that the British were one of the first to recognise it as evil and to do something about it.


dailymail.co.uk
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
22
38
Oshawa ON
The era of the slave trade persisted a great deal longer than the present. Just because we don't own slaves in many countries today doesn't mean we won't in the future. Ah, revisionism and all its furious judgments. The future will judge us for enslaving nature. A far greater crime than owning human beings.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Good stuff on the slave trade, Blackleaf.

I believe (if I remember correctly) slavery was completely abolished in the British Empire in 1832. So, unless there are some people about that are seriously pushing 200 years of age, NONE of us is responsible for the slave trade.

This is almost as crazy as the move in the United States from some corners to have the decendents of slaves financially compensated......what a JOKE!

The people alive today in the USA that are decended from
slaves have benefited wildly from their ancestors' suffering.......if they DON'T believe that I suggest they be given financial compensation..........as long as they also take a loss of US citizenship and a one-way plane ticket to Africa, preferably Liberia.

Any takers?

Didn't think so.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: Er, sorry, but I'm no

See, problem with that is the term "indentured labour"....funny the article didn't mention them.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
The British don't have to apologize for anything, what was in the past was, it is a matter of history. And history when viewed with a contemporary eye has a political agenda, and nothing more. View history in the context of the time, anything beyond that is revisionism.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: Er, sorry, but I'm no

Yes ITN, but even as an Englishman, I will point out the factual naivity of the peice, for example, ok, so Britain got rid of it's slaves first....

But like the fact that it gave up any hope of the American colonies at the same time "finding" a whole new continent to ransak, Britain gave up the african slave trade just when it pretty much gained overall control on a sub-continent that has a mind-blowing population of dirt-cheap (virtually free, virtually slave) labour...


Coincidence?, nope, just a great PR job....and a sneaky one too
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
You should know one thing about me Daz, revisionists make my blood boil. They serve no purpose but to discredit and somehow "tie" present day viewpoints and current events with history. What is "immoral" today, wasn't so "immoral" 50 years ago. Same goes for the future.

We can analyze the slave trade, but we can only do so in the context of the time. Slave trade was perfectly acceptable. Because "niggers" were considered lower forms of life. Put yourself in a time machine and go back 200 years. You would have been raised to comprehend, blacks were lower forms of life, so using them as slaves, you were essntially doing them a favor. By feeding them , clothing them and providing housing for them.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
I think not said:
You should know one thing about me Daz, revisionists make my blood boil. They serve no purpose but to discredit and somehow "tie" present day viewpoints and current events with history. What is "immoral" today, wasn't so "immoral" 50 years ago. Same goes for the future.

We can analyze the slave trade, but we can only do so in the context of the time. Slave trade was perfectly acceptable. Because "niggers" were considered lower forms of life. Put yourself in a time machine and go back 200 years. You would have been raised to comprehend, blacks were lower forms of life, so using them as slaves, you were essntially doing them a favor. By feeding them , clothing them and providing housing for them.

I understand that, and I'm not trying to revise any of the history, I also realise it would have been perfectly acceptable then....but my problem is, as I say, the niavity of the piece, ok, sure britain got rid of it's slave trade before the spanish, americans and a coulpe of others...BUT, would they have done so without the sheer number of virtually free labour they'd just gained?...

(ironically) I Think Not.


so basically, this article is there to prove how visionary and morally superior britain is, but to anyone that knows, it just shows Britain as a very astute Spin doctoring empire.....if not a bit sneeky.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
I think not said:
The British don't have to apologize for anything, what was in the past was, it is a matter of history. And history when viewed with a contemporary eye has a political agenda, and nothing more. View history in the context of the time, anything beyond that is revisionism.

So keep the monarchy? :p :lol:
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Daz_Hockey said:
I understand that, and I'm not trying to revise any of the history, I also realise it would have been perfectly acceptable then....but my problem is, as I say, the niavity of the piece, ok, sure britain got rid of it's slave trade before the spanish, americans and a coulpe of others...BUT, would they have done so without the sheer number of virtually free labour they'd just gained?...

(ironically) I Think Not.


so basically, this article is there to prove how visionary and morally superior britain is, but to anyone that knows, it just shows Britain as a very astute Spin doctoring empire.....if not a bit sneeky.

Yes they would have. Public sentiment in Britain in the latter half of the 18th century was for abolishing slavery. The Church of England played a vital role in this regard. And the Quakers later in in the US.

Everybody condemns Christianity, but it was Christians who herald in the abolishing of slavery.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: Er, sorry, but I'm no

nah, I think it was a little more underhand than simply public opinion.....

it was nothing more than a PR stunt, actually quite similar to Arnie and Califronia's stance on fossil fuels, ok in theory, but look a little deeper and you'll find it's nothing more than a PR stunt.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
I think not said:
Daz_Hockey said:
I understand that, and I'm not trying to revise any of the history, I also realise it would have been perfectly acceptable then....but my problem is, as I say, the niavity of the piece, ok, sure britain got rid of it's slave trade before the spanish, americans and a coulpe of others...BUT, would they have done so without the sheer number of virtually free labour they'd just gained?...

(ironically) I Think Not.


so basically, this article is there to prove how visionary and morally superior britain is, but to anyone that knows, it just shows Britain as a very astute Spin doctoring empire.....if not a bit sneeky.

Yes they would have. Public sentiment in Britain in the latter half of the 18th century was for abolishing slavery. The Church of England played a vital role in this regard. And the Quakers later in in the US.

Everybody condemns Christianity, but it was Christians who herald in the abolishing of slavery.

While I agree, I would argue that church and state held hands during the colonial era. Speaking of the Divine RIght of Kings..........
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Said1 said:
I think not said:
Daz_Hockey said:
I understand that, and I'm not trying to revise any of the history, I also realise it would have been perfectly acceptable then....but my problem is, as I say, the niavity of the piece, ok, sure britain got rid of it's slave trade before the spanish, americans and a coulpe of others...BUT, would they have done so without the sheer number of virtually free labour they'd just gained?...

(ironically) I Think Not.


so basically, this article is there to prove how visionary and morally superior britain is, but to anyone that knows, it just shows Britain as a very astute Spin doctoring empire.....if not a bit sneeky.

Yes they would have. Public sentiment in Britain in the latter half of the 18th century was for abolishing slavery. The Church of England played a vital role in this regard. And the Quakers later in in the US.

Everybody condemns Christianity, but it was Christians who herald in the abolishing of slavery.

While I agree, I would argue that church and state held hands during the colonial era. Speaking of the Divine RIght of Kings..........

I agree, which would make easier to abolish slavery, would it not?
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
I think not said:
Said1 said:
I think not said:
Daz_Hockey said:
I understand that, and I'm not trying to revise any of the history, I also realise it would have been perfectly acceptable then....but my problem is, as I say, the niavity of the piece, ok, sure britain got rid of it's slave trade before the spanish, americans and a coulpe of others...BUT, would they have done so without the sheer number of virtually free labour they'd just gained?...

(ironically) I Think Not.


so basically, this article is there to prove how visionary and morally superior britain is, but to anyone that knows, it just shows Britain as a very astute Spin doctoring empire.....if not a bit sneeky.

Yes they would have. Public sentiment in Britain in the latter half of the 18th century was for abolishing slavery. The Church of England played a vital role in this regard. And the Quakers later in in the US.

Everybody condemns Christianity, but it was Christians who herald in the abolishing of slavery.

While I agree, I would argue that church and state held hands during the colonial era. Speaking of the Divine RIght of Kings..........

I agree, which would make easier to abolish slavery, would it not?

Of course. Who needs people when the entire continent can be yours. Mmwahahahaha :lol:
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: Er, sorry, but I'm no

nah, it was underhand, it was a dirty trick, no, I know anything I say ITN's gonna disagree with me about, BUT on the face of it.....yes, they "reacted" to public opinion and banned it.

I just feel your only looking at it from the surface....I ask you, when did indentured labour end?, 1940's?, it was slavery in all but name, all but name.

it's like signing a contract and not reading the small print, well the small print in britains slavery abolilition bill was that they got to continue virtually buying and selling indian slaves and using them in....africa and the other colonial lands of the british empire.

even when I'm being anti-british you have to disagree dont ya ITN!!! :p
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
You're not being anti-British Daz. And I disagree with you because you make it sound as if abolishing slavery was a sheer coincidence. It wasn't. It was evolution is morality.

Indentured Labor is not analogous to slavery.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: Er, sorry, but I'm no

there are many similarities between indentured labour and slavery actually..

And how exactly is it an evolutionary or moral move for an empire built on the suffering of others (particulary those of other races, those who the rulers in said empire feel are neither bright or "civilised" enough to rule themselves), it would be a strange "natural" step for that empire to start "realising the pet's".

ok, perhaps the racial superiority thing plateaued, but can you see the contridiction?