Environmentalists look to Ottawa to save Alberta caribou
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Re: RE: Environmentalists look to Ottawa to save Alberta car
I think the articles were written with consideration for future Alberta caribou populations, but I don't believe they say anything more about futures than they do about past history. Some of the graphs are followed with contradictory arguments. Data is only available between 1989 and 2000.
the caracal kid said:
I think the articles were written with consideration for future Alberta caribou populations, but I don't believe they say anything more about futures than they do about past history. Some of the graphs are followed with contradictory arguments. Data is only available between 1989 and 2000.
Re: RE: Environmentalists loo
I sure hope I do. What are the chances I will learn it here?
But just to get this straight:
According to the petition submitted by the Sierra Legal Defense Fund;
There are no biologial differences between our caribou. Our 'threatened' caribou are only different from your 'harvestable' caribou in that ours are 'non-migratory'.
The main point, is, however that the Sierra Legal Defense Fund is looking to the province of Alberta for:
and request that they:
So.... they want us to stop logging, drilling, working, etc... to save a non-migratory sub-species of an animal that you guys have 450,000 of in Manitoba. You don;t even have that many people, do you?
You guys butcher, and sell to butcher more caribou in 5 years than they are attempting to 'protect' in Alberta by ceasing all resource extraction. Well done.
Reverend Blair said:
I sure hope I do. What are the chances I will learn it here?
But just to get this straight:
Reverend Blair said:
According to the petition submitted by the Sierra Legal Defense Fund;
There are no biologial differences between our caribou. Our 'threatened' caribou are only different from your 'harvestable' caribou in that ours are 'non-migratory'.
The main point, is, however that the Sierra Legal Defense Fund is looking to the province of Alberta for:
and request that they:
So.... they want us to stop logging, drilling, working, etc... to save a non-migratory sub-species of an animal that you guys have 450,000 of in Manitoba. You don;t even have that many people, do you?
You guys butcher, and sell to butcher more caribou in 5 years than they are attempting to 'protect' in Alberta by ceasing all resource extraction. Well done.
RE: Environmentalists loo
Isolated herds are considered sub-species because they have different genetic lines and different behaviours than the main herd. That's why the fact that they are non-migratory is important.
It's like the difference between the wood bison and the plains bison.
You would wipe out anything that stood in the way of your tiny $400 cheque from Ralphie though...we get it.
Isolated herds are considered sub-species because they have different genetic lines and different behaviours than the main herd. That's why the fact that they are non-migratory is important.
It's like the difference between the wood bison and the plains bison.
You would wipe out anything that stood in the way of your tiny $400 cheque from Ralphie though...we get it.
Re: RE: Environmentalists loo
Hey, the only thing standing between me and a $500 cheque next year is the Sierra Legal Defense Fund, a few self-righteous new age lawyers looking for hush money from the oil comapnies, and a couple of dozen 'uniquely albertan' caribou.
Hell, I would take a $450 cheque if the gov't would just buy some cheap-ass migratory Manitoba caribou, hobble them to make them non-migratory, and tie them to a few fence-posts accross our majestic northern woodlands.
If we buy a few extra, we can probably set up some sort of Manitoba-esque shooting gallery for tourists, and recoup the money that way.
Yay. Everybody wins. Alberta gets to keep on extracting natural resources, enironmentalists can rest easy knowing that the Alberta caribou are plentiful, and Manitoba gets a renewable source of revenue.
Hooray!
Reverend Blair said:
Hey, the only thing standing between me and a $500 cheque next year is the Sierra Legal Defense Fund, a few self-righteous new age lawyers looking for hush money from the oil comapnies, and a couple of dozen 'uniquely albertan' caribou.
Hell, I would take a $450 cheque if the gov't would just buy some cheap-ass migratory Manitoba caribou, hobble them to make them non-migratory, and tie them to a few fence-posts accross our majestic northern woodlands.
If we buy a few extra, we can probably set up some sort of Manitoba-esque shooting gallery for tourists, and recoup the money that way.
Yay. Everybody wins. Alberta gets to keep on extracting natural resources, enironmentalists can rest easy knowing that the Alberta caribou are plentiful, and Manitoba gets a renewable source of revenue.
Hooray!
RE: Environmentalists loo
Oh come on guys.....
...what? Didja take your ball and go home?
Did I make a faux pas?
Oh come on guys.....
...what? Didja take your ball and go home?
Did I make a faux pas?
Dino00235 said:
<SNIP: FOUL LANGUAGE> -
Nature in its whole is not understood, but merely marvelled at. \We do not pretend to know nature in its entirety in saying we love it.
<SNIP: FOUL LANGUAGE>.Letting bits and pieces of nature go to ruin, to be destroyed, has put the whole biospere in peril, but only people with a modicum of brain power see this. Ass.
Katlin
Save the Caribou
While I have not read the entirety of the posts on this topic, I would like to throw my opinion in for the record. If the caribou in Alberta are endangered, and environmental experts recognize that the same is true, then the Hon. Stéphane Dion, the Minister of the Environment, should exercise any power that he may have and, if the endeavour fails in so doing, move in the House of Commons that some sort of stronger action be taken.
While I have not read the entirety of the posts on this topic, I would like to throw my opinion in for the record. If the caribou in Alberta are endangered, and environmental experts recognize that the same is true, then the Hon. Stéphane Dion, the Minister of the Environment, should exercise any power that he may have and, if the endeavour fails in so doing, move in the House of Commons that some sort of stronger action be taken.
Karlin said:
It never ceases to amaze me, that people can sit in an urban office, or suburban sprawl townhouse, and type this kinda stuff over the internet.
I mean... I can play holier than thou about this, because I am carving this message into tree bark from inside my unserviced log cabin in the middle of the 'unspoiled' woods, and having it transferred to the internet via carrier pigeon to the nearest Mailboxes Etc...
But come on... really. Would I also be an environmentalist if I drove a compact car, and shopped at Mountain Equipment Co-op??? Or would I have to drive my compact car off-road?
I guess my point is this: The natural environment is, indeed, in peril. If, of course, by 'natural environment' you mean everything you can see from your apartment's kitchen window, or out the car window along the highway 2 corridor, and by 'peril' you mean bespeckled with modern convenience.
We definitely need to do something about it. If, of course, by 'something' you mean provide a steady source of income to a bunch of sleazy, hybrid car driving, ponytail wearing new age 'hippie' lawyers, so that they can get rich and by a fancy cedar shake shingled house in Canmore.
I mean... if not... what will happen to the poor Alberta caribou? If they continue to decline in numbers like they have the past 40 years... we may only have 1500-3500 left by 2050!!!!
It sure would be a lot different, if the Caribou's natural habitat was Nose Hill park, or Canmore.
Dino00235 said:
It's true, the numbers have been declining since 1980 from 1500-3500 since 1981 and now we only have 3000 left. If this is worthy of the governments attention ... so be it. Lets send them a petition from Santa's elves and complain about the reindeer.
On the other hand, there are deer running all over Calgary getting hit by cars, having their antlers nicked by who knows what and is anyone concerned that the new ACH has taken away their habitat? or that of the red fox? or the fescue grasses? Nope, no one cares because priorities are somewhere else. There was a biology Prof at the UC who ensured that the fescue grass in the endowment lands were not touched but when she died, the ACH proposal was right there. I contacted several environmentalists at the time about the fescue grass and their answer was: if it concerns you, do something but we're busy. Even environmentalists have their priorities.
animator said:
Now you see, animator, (if that is your real name)...
That is how environmental activism works:
If you live in a previously spoiled area, (like a large urban centre), it is ok to disregard your own backyard as being anything other than its own naturally evolved ecosystem.,
You must concentrate your efforts on telling others how to live, act, work, and conserve so that they may live in an unspoiled ecosystem different from yours.... just in case you might want to visit someday.
For instance... It is perfectly OK to live in Vancouver or Los Angeles, live in an apartment building, drive on paved roads, and burn unrenewable sources of energy for power...
...as long as you make sure that subsistence farmers living in the Amazon river basin do not get to make the same decisions.
Just like... it is OK to live and work in an area where the Caribou have already been wiped out...
...as long as you get to bitch about how other people are affecting caribou habitiat in their own pursuit of livlihood.
Very simple concept...
Dino00235 said:
Of course animator is my real name ... whadaya think - I made it up just because? I assume you read all the articles related to the caribou issue, including the petition. If that is the case, then you also read that the caribou population was 1500-3500 in 1981 and that it is estimated to be 3000 today. According to my calculations, that means the poplulation is not declining. If you can explain how this is a problem, I'm very open minded however I need links before I'll believe it. Additionally, if you research caribou you will also learn that the biggest threat to the caribou population is the wolf. I've already posted my links so if you read them you'll see where I got my information from.
animator said:
Impressive...
But I kinda realized that before. I was trying to be contextually ironic about the figures. It is, however, hard to convey sarcasm through a typed message. There just isn;t room for 'that voice'.
Perhaps if I highlighted my more acerbic comments in an italicized font, I would be clearer to read.
I would hate for people to inadvertantly take offense at anything I intended in a sarcastic vein. I will try to be clearer in the future.
And of course I read the articles... what? You think I just skimmed them for pictures, charts, references to Santa Claus, and contradictory statistics?
How can you be sure? I mean, its not as if I was completely out of context... defending the migration roots of our more sedentary sub-sub-subspecies of caribou... or comparing the Latin genus/species names of Alberta Caribou, to find out how biologists really feel....
and now really... the biggest threat to the Alberta caribou population is the wolf?
Perhaps the Sierra Legal Defense fund should refocus their efforts. Maybe they should send a few lawyers, activists, and elected officials up north to 'shoo' the wolves away. Maybe they could do a count and prove that the Alberta baby seals are also short on numbers (compared to the coastal variety).
Dino00235 said:
I'm beginning to see things more clearly now. I'm new here and it's going to take me some time to figure out the tone of the board and the tone of the posters ... add to that the fact that sometimes I'm a wee bit slow and voila ... six months from now I should have it all figured out - just as everyone is leaving for summer vacation.