EGO---Is Self an Illusion ?

china

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the caracal kid ;
china.... it is fun to watch because nobody can prove they exist. It is accepted as an assumption to progress further, but never proven. (much like there is no "the truth", but only "true in respect to".)
So do you or do you not accept the premise of a false separation?
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Dear carcal kid
Does everything has to be proven ?,if so ..."prove, convince me that you are of a sound mind ,otherwise all you want is to satisfy your ego.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
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china,

prove I am sound mind? I can not. I could prove I am of sound mind in reference to a specific framework, but not universally. Nor do I have any need or want to prove "sound mind" to you or anybody else. Satisfy the ego? That can not be done, if I had said ego to satisfy. Prove I do or don't.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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lets start at the beginning: prove you exist.
Descartes said it first: cogito ergo sum; I think therefore I am. That proves to me that I exist, it proves nothing to you, but unless your head is full of solipsistic nonsense (and I don't think it is, based on what I've seen of you here) you'd have to take the variety of my posts in these forums as some kind of evidence that somebody calling himself Dexter Sinister exists in some sense.

Do you need more than that? PM me your real name and address and I'll meet you for a drink somewhere nearby. I'll buy. And if you still doubt my existence after that I'll give you a punch in the nose and you can wonder what caused you that pain and bleeding... Well, no, I probably wouldn't do that, I don't like to hurt people, but there's often a very thin line between legitimate philosophical questions and plain old stupid questions.
 

the caracal kid

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"I think therefore I am" does not prove one exists outside of a specified framework.

As much I don't like to use Star Trek analogies, it is the simplest one to post. A being on a holodeck may well state "i think therefore I am", yet from the perspective of the crew using the deck, the being does not really exist. It is but a hologram.
 

china

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carcal kid : Satisfy the ego? That can not be done, if I had said ego to satisfy. Prove I do or don't.
_________________________________________________________________________________________ _____________ Hi again "grasshopper", again you are asking me to prove something that you belive can't be proven. Why do you do that? .......EGO,big one too.
 
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china

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The KID
you smell what you seek, china.
don't project______________________________________________________________________________


Yes ,You are right,
 

china

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Hey kid ,it's me again.

You know the "nice ,warm feeling" that you felt when you've read the above post?....
......that's your big Ego kid.
 

the caracal kid

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what warm feeling? who/what is right/wrong? Is there right wrong? Do you exist? If you don't exist then how can you be right or wrong?

you are projecting, again.

are you interested in what you started this topic on, or not?
 

s_lone

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Feb 16, 2005
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What the ego is exactly isn't quite obvious... For my part, I do think it is something real, not an illusion.

I'm not one to think my sense of individuality is a pure illusion and should be forgotten. I am both IN the universe and OF the universe.

Our human psyches are all structured the same in their purest essence. In the same way our bodies are also structured relatively the same. We all have a nervous system, we all need to breath oxygen, we pretty much all have two arms and two legs, a stomach, a liver etc. I believe the ego is part of our psychic structure; it is in the nature of a human to have an ego. This ego has a function in the same way our liver has a function.

It seems obvious to me that to be completely free from the ego, one has to totally understand it, which is not an easy thing to do.

I don't think freeing one's self from the ego means to destroy or dissolve our ego. I would rather think one needs to understand and transcend one's ego in order to be free of it.
 

china

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Do you exist? If you don't exist then how can you be right or wrong?
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OK Kid ,tell me about it .
 

the caracal kid

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ok china,

so we focus on the nodes or the transactions?

the "ego" is a construct formed from focusing on the nodes, in particular one node.

The difficulty is that the node is defined not individually but as a sum of interactions/transactions with other nodes. The abritrary separation of one node is the illusion of the individual. At the most base level, imagine what "you" would be if for your entire "existance" existed in a completely sensory deprived state (and I mean completely sensory deprived, not what we would often imagine the absense of a sense to be).

but,

where does it begin?
the ego is a self generating concept. To create sepearation it focuses on differentiation. It begins in the perceptual processes. It is a valuable survival process to distinguish between threat and friend, between tribe member and invader, etc. This however, allowed to run free creates the isolation illusion of the ego. One may see himself as separate, but he is not. He is using the perception of separation to define him, and thus is as dependent upon those perceived as "different" as the egoless are on their perception of familiarity. The difference is the the one serving the ego, is also serving those incorrectly perceived as separate.
 

china

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Is the ego an illusion created by our own mind ? I hope that we can all agree that there is no ego anywhere in nature other than in human consciousness.Animals may be violent to some extent BUt animals don't have an ego . They are not intentionally and deliberately violent. And the human child,when it is born , is like an ananimal, it has no ego since it doesn't have the capacity for thinking and imagining. If I examin that,I see that after a few years after its birth the child acquires a language and the capacity to think and imagine. Obviously these capasities in themself are not the ego.They are a process of biological evolution , which is a part of the order of nature.When we couple these capacities with the instict of seeking pleasure and avoiding pain,which is there also in the animals,then that produces the recipe for the formaton of the ego, because with the human consciousness there is not only physical pain and physical pleasure , but ther is also psychological pain and psychological pleasure. If for example someone hurts me I not only remember factually what happend ,but I also record in my memory the pain of that experience.So, I begin to feel hostile towards the person who insulted me and I will avoid him so I will not be hurt again. But you must have noticed that when you ill-treat the dog , it comes wagging its tail again the next day, it has forgoten that ill-treatment .Children are also capable of being hurt, but you must have noticed that after few days , they have forgoten the hurt and quickly make friends with the same person who hurt them.But as we grow older ,it becomes more difficult to do this.And that is the beginning of the ego process whithin us.The ego is born out of the illusion that we thinkthat if we work out of self-interest , we will benefit. Actually if you work with self-interest, which means in order to receive rewards , to have more power , more money ,abetter reputation ,it lowers the quality of your life .We want all that in order to be happy but happiness is destroyed by the egoistic approach and therfore the quality of your life is lowerd . So it is an illusion to think that to approach life with self-interest is in your self-interest , because,we are not seperate from the other person and what consider to be a benefit is really , not a benefit.If we see the truth of that and we really perceive the danger of the ego process , not through an explanation ,not only as a rational conclusion with wich we agree ,then that perception of danger will act on consciousness and eliminate the ego process . Your wanting to do it doesn't act. Your agreement also doesn't act ,because knowledge and ideas don't change cosciousness . But a deep peception of the truth changes consciousness. And we have this capacity for insight.
 

oneeno

New Member
Oct 23, 2006
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Is the ego an illusion created by our own mind ? I hope that we can all agree that there is no ego anywhere in nature other than in human consciousness.Animals may be violent to some extent BUt animals don't have an ego . They are not intentionally and deliberately violent. And the human child,when it is born , is like an ananimal, it has no ego since it doesn't have the capacity for thinking and imagining. If I examin that,I see that after a few years after its birth the child acquires a language and the capacity to think and imagine. Obviously these capasities in themself are not the ego.They are a process of biological evolution , which is a part of the order of nature.When we couple these capacities with the instict of seeking pleasure and avoiding pain,which is there also in the animals,then that produces the recipe for the formaton of the ego, because with the human consciousness there is not only physical pain and physical pleasure , but ther is also psychological pain and psychological pleasure. If for example someone hurts me I not only remember factually what happend ,but I also record in my memory the pain of that experience.So, I begin to feel hostile towards the person who insulted me and I will avoid him so I will not be hurt again. But you must have noticed that when you ill-treat the dog , it comes wagging its tail again the next day, it has forgoten that ill-treatment .Children are also capable of being hurt, but you must have noticed that after few days , they have forgoten the hurt and quickly make friends with the same person who hurt them.But as we grow older ,it becomes more difficult to do this.And that is the beginning of the ego process whithin us.The ego is born out of the illusion that we thinkthat if we work out of self-interest , we will benefit. Actually if you work with self-interest, which means in order to receive rewards , to have more power , more money ,abetter reputation ,it lowers the quality of your life .We want all that in order to be happy but happiness is destroyed by the egoistic approach and therfore the quality of your life is lowerd . So it is an illusion to think that to approach life with self-interest is in your self-interest , because,we are not seperate from the other person and what consider to be a benefit is really , not a benefit.If we see the truth of that and we really perceive the danger of the ego process , not through an explanation ,not only as a rational conclusion with wich we agree ,then that perception of danger will act on consciousness and eliminate the ego process . Your wanting to do it doesn't act. Your agreement also doesn't act ,because knowledge and ideas don't change cosciousness . But a deep peception of the truth changes consciousness. And we have this capacity for insight.


So it is an illusion to think that to approach life with self-interest is in your self-interest ,

it is?
then what should you be approaching life with?
what is it that our life is here for?
others?
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the ego is a tool we have created for ourselves to help us know ourselves...
in order for us to EXPERIANCE, we have to know ourselves..or at least learn about ourselves as we go.
the journey isent about running straight back to god the second we get here... we are here for a reason.
in the end..when you have experianced/learned all that you need to, you will learn to drop the ego with the blink of an eye as you no longer have any use for it.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
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reason? there is no planned reason for human existance (or other existance either).

Running back to God? "God" is a creation of man.
 

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
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oneeno :
Quote:
So it is an illusion to think that to approach life with self-interest is in your self-interest ,

it is?
then what should you be approaching life with?
what is it that our life is here for?
others?____________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, you have not finished the sentence .Perhaps you'll find the answer below

"So it is an illusion to think that to approach life with self-interest is in your self-interest , because,we are not seperate from the other person and what consider to be a benefit is really , not a benefit".


china vbmenu_register("postmenu_733536", true);
Seriously, how do I stop yakkin?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Does Life has purpose?
Does life having meaning, a purpose? Is not living in itself its own purpose? Why do we want more? . . . Our difficulty is that, since our life is empty, we want to find a purpose to life and strive for it. Such a purpose of life can only be mere intellection, without any reality; when the purpose of life is pursued by a stupid, dull mind, by an empty heart, that purpose will also be empty. This question about the purpose of life is put by those who do not love.
 
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oneeno

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Oct 23, 2006
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oneeno :
Quote:
So it is an illusion to think that to approach life with self-interest is in your self-interest ,

it is?
then what should you be approaching life with?
what is it that our life is here for?
others?____________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, you have not finished the sentence .Perhaps you'll find the answer below

"So it is an illusion to think that to approach life with self-interest is in your self-interest , because,we are not seperate from the other person and what consider to be a benefit is really , not a benefit".


china vbmenu_register("postmenu_733536", true);
Seriously, how do I stop yakkin?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: china
Posts: 208



Does Life has purpose?
Does life having meaning, a purpose? Is not living in itself its own purpose? Why do we want more? . . . Our difficulty is that, since our life is empty, we want to find a purpose to life and strive for it. Such a purpose of life can only be mere intellection, without any reality; when the purpose of life is pursued by a stupid, dull mind, by an empty heart, that purpose will also be empty. This question about the purpose of life is put by those who do not love.


it wasn't the purpose of life i was questioning..
- -
in what sense are you using the term reality..