Define God?!...........

[Northboy]

Perhaps you are familiar with the ontological proof of Gods existence by the medieval writter circa 1200 ad--------- St anselm

I wont re-iterate it , but I will provide you with the counter-argument. One can prove that God does not exist by appyling a few lines of philosophical logic.

1) God by defination is the greatest being which can be conceived.

2) God is the creator of the universe.

3) The greatness of this monumental task is inversely proportional to the " handicap " of the creator ie
for a weaker god to have created the universe is certainly more impressive than for a stronger god to have done so

4) The most compromised position from which god could have created the universe is that he totally lacks existence.
ie. the most amazing superlative act of greatness would have been for a nonexistent god to have created the universe.

5) Therefore god does not exist.


there you have it!

Good Luck with that...

 

[vinod1975]

I would like to hear the answers and REAL evidence from those intelligent and amazingly smart atheists:
1. "...Does anybody know what are we living for???"
2. How did the earth begin life???
3. How was the human initially born? (don't give me the Darwin's theory, it's only a theory, nothing more, and the latest theories suggest that this theory is very fragile, since there is no evidence of the evolution of any animal on this planet).
4. What happens to us when we die (give the definite evidence pls)
5. Why don't we fly and the dinosaurs did?

Very good questions...

 

[Northboy]

In a modern context, I would suggest:

God is Faith. Faith in one's self, faith in society and the greater good. Belief in a greater power and energy beyond this physical world. Answers to the unexplainable.

If we all cannot be proponents of a god, we all should be at least be keepers of the Faith and keepers of our brothers and sisters.

Not too bad an answer.....an obviously leaning to the kingly nature....but some wisdom learned...

 

[Northboy]

Your posts are all interesting and enlightening, but I dare say they inevitably tell more about yourselves than about God. I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but I have read that the mystics (those who reportedly have experienced a union with God) all basically say the God is ineffable. One of them, Meister Eckhart, said "God is nothingness". What all this ineffable business means is that nothing can be predicated about God, i.e., that any sentence of the "God is x" type must necessarily be false. I personally find it impossible to satisfactorily define God, I have never had a mystical experience of the sort Theresa of Avila, John of the Cross or Meister Eckhart described, and find that the concept of God boggles the mind. Before attempting a definition perhaps we should heed the advice given by Austrian philsopher Wittgenstein: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent". What do you think? Can humans really define (that is, put limits on) God?

A fair nature learned by a priestly nature lots of potential here....Faith first rate-ready to spread his wings...

 

[Northboy]

In a modern context, I would suggest:

God is Faith. Faith in one's self, faith in society and the greater good. Belief in a greater power and energy beyond this physical world. Answers to the unexplainable.

If we all cannot be proponents of a god, we all should be at least be keepers of the Faith and keepers of our brothers and sisters.

Why can't you be if you wanted to?? where's your limitation??

 

[vinod1975]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Creation_of_the_Sun_and_Moon_face_detail.jpg

A Christian depiction of God according to 16th Century painter
Michelangelo. Detail of Sistine Chapel fresco Creation of the Sun and Moon

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...this guy was under obervation for 15 days 24 hours a day...

Who says so? People who want to believe his claims? Fifteen days without food or water, he'd be dead. He's a fake. The observers are mistaken.

http://www.randi.org/jr/071103.html

 

[Northboy]

Yes, Sanctus, humans can do it. When they are not the slaves of the Lord, but sons and daughters of their Gods.

Well Said...

 

[Northboy]

Whenever I use the word God myself, I am referring to the universe as a whole. I don't use it in the sense that there is an omnipresent entity watching my life with interest, more of an all encompassing idea of how small I am in the bigger picture. It's very much the same as any theistic definition, hard to wrap your head around the large scale, and does have limits much like other apparitions of God. Like for instance, neither the universe, nor God, can create the logically absurd. As Sanctus says and I agree, it is beyond our realm of understanding.

A thoughtful kingly nature with some wisdom appearing....

 

[Northboy]

Debates and disagreements between atheists and theists tend to center over a single issue: gods, or at least whether or not any gods can or do exist. The is the one thing which differentiates atheists from theists — it isn’t necessarily much of an issue, but it can be magnified by a variety of other philosophical, social, and religious matters. Because of the fundamental importance of this one issue to all general discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical that those who participate in such discussions have a better understanding of just what it is they are talking about and why. After all, what’s the point of debating the possible existence of “God” if no one has tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean by “God”? .When a theist claims that a god exists, one of the first questions atheists should ask is “what do you mean by ‘god’?” Without understanding what the theist means, the atheist simply cannot evaluate the claim. By the same token, unless the theist is very clear about what he means, he cannot adequately explain and defend his beliefs.

So are you defining God?

 

[vinod1975]

Who says so? People who want to believe his claims? Fifteen days without food or water, he'd be dead. He's a fake. The observers are mistaken.

http://www.randi.org/jr/071103.html

Let me go though this dexter...:angel8:

 

[Northboy]

I believe because of the "primitive" thought process, and lack of "invention", a long time ago, man
was overwhelmed by any natural process of the earth, "lightening", "thunder", etc. etc., and began
to become slaves to these processes, and then began to worship them, and decided that something
was making that happen, so they became slaves to those happenings.

If that didn't happen, then, there was the presence of "outerspace" beings who landed on our earth
thousands of years ago, and controlled, and gave instructions to the "earthlings", and became the
"gods" who man worshipped. Wonder what ever happened to them. I don't believe in UFO's now,but I
dont' exclude that people from other planets could have been here a long time ago. The sight of angels and gods in the heavens could have been "outer space real beings,maybe they came from
a planet that has "since" ceased to exist. I believe that any information passed down throughout the
thousands of years past, were vastly exaggerated as time went by, (that happens even now), and
I am not going to live by the thoughts that were written down by people who had very simple
thoughts, were controlled by happenings by nature, and didn't have the intelligence to figure out
much of anything "scientific".

I wonder about many things that happened back then, but none of my thoughts are connected to
any god, that is "fantasy".

So, my answer to this question is, either of the above.

So, you have no relationship with him one way or the other??

 

[vinod1975]

I strongly belive and trust in god , when I am need or in trouble god is the one who helps me out of it , this way or that way I get resolution about my problem

 

[Northboy]

That's too easy. Gods, faeries, leprachauns, poltergeists, gnomes, sprites, ogres, Santa Claus, etc. are creations of humans.

"The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. "
Albert Einstein

That was his mistake.. Have you formed your own opinion on the subject??

 

[Dexter Sinister]

1. "Does anybody know what are we living for??? Nope. Why do you need a reason? How is that question any different from asking why there are deer, or beetles, or mosquitoes, or the Ebola virus, or E. coli and staphylococcus bacteria? We have to make our own purposes, nature doesn't provide them beyond the most basic drive to stay alive long enough to reproduce successfully.

2. How did the earth begin life??? We don't know yet. That doesn't prove anything.

3. How was the human initially born? (don't give me the Darwin's theory, it's only a theory, nothing more, and the latest theories suggest that this theory is very fragile, since there is no evidence of the evolution of any animal on this planet). The phrase "only a theory" betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what theory means in science. Your parenthetical phrase is simply false, the evidence for evolution is overwhelming, you are simply either ignorant of it or don't understand it. There are perfectly satisfactory naturalistic explanations for your question. Read Ernst Mayer's book What Evolution Is, or anything by Richard Dawkins, or Stephen Jay Gould, or Niles Eldridge, and if you understand them, you'll understand what a deeply ignorant question that is.

4. What happens to us when we die (give the definite evidence pls) There's no evidence that anything happens to us when we die, we're just gone, that's the end. Our biological systems run down, wear out, and we cease to function.

5. Why don't we fly and the dinosaurs did? Only a few dinosaurs flew. Most creatures don't fly, it's very expensive metabolically and it takes very special circumstances and very strong selection pressures to drive creatures into the air. Most creatures, in fact, in terms of numbers of individuals and numbers of species, are bacteria, and that's been true for the entire history of life. What does that tell you about what god likes?

 

[Chukcha]

And while we're doing that, you prove their is a god!!!!!

Oh yeah? How do yo do that? Why don't they talk about it on the news that you doing that? Where is the evidence that someone is doing that? can I please see the evidence with my own eyes, proven, stamped and photographed.

While you are doing your job, I can tell you my understanding of why I think it's not that simple:




... because it's quite complicated ...
just think why this is all about, the universe? the earth and only the earth? the humans, and only the humans?
Do you know much about the universe? If yes, please answser my previous questions, otherwise you have Jack ****.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

That was his mistake.. Have you formed your own opinion on the subject??

L Gilbert's opinion was perfectly clear in the first sentence of his post you cited. And what evidence have you that Einstein's opinion was a mistake?

 

[vinod1975]

Dexter you have answer for everything , you always try to reply everything thats good....

 

[Chukcha]

Nope. Why do you need a reason? How is that question any different from asking why there are deer, or beetles, or mosquitoes, or the Ebola virus, or E. coli and staphylococcus bacteria? We have to make our own purposes, nature doesn't provide them beyond the most basic drive to stay alive long enough to reproduce successfully.

If you can decide for someone that they don't need a reason give them a reason WHY NOT.

We don't know yet. That doesn't prove anything.

Exactly, so when are you going to know? before you try to discourage other's believes can you harry up and give a clear understanding.

The phrase "only a theory" betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what theory means in science. Your parenthetical phrase is simply false, the evidence for evolution is overwhelming, you are simply either ignorant of it or don't understand it. There are perfectly satisfactory naturalistic explanations for your question. Read Ernst Mayer's book What Evolution Is, or anything by Richard Dawkins, or Stephen Jay Gould, or Niles Eldridge, and if you understand them, you'll understand what a deeply ignorant question that is.

Lets assume your theory is smarter and wiser than the theory was brought to us by Christ.

There's no evidence that anything happens to us when we die, we're just gone, that's the end. Our biological systems run down, wear out, and we cease to function.

Again, I want you to be responsible for what you're saying, so prove it, just like you want you proof vice versa.

Only a few dinosaurs flew. Most creatures don't fly, it's very expensive metabolically and it takes very special circumstances and very strong selection pressures to drive creatures into the air. Most creatures, in fact, in terms of numbers of individuals and numbers of species, are bacteria, and that's been true for the entire history of life. What does that tell you about what god likes?

So why those "few" were able to fly? Just out of curiousity, I never understood why, so I decided to ask someone more knowledgeable. You didn't really answer the question, instead you've asked the question at the end of your message.

 

[Chukcha]

1. We are living for a while.
2. The appropriate conditions were met (the right molecules, energies, etc.).
3.See my answer to number two. BTW, you could improve your knowledge of biology and take a lesson or two. Darwin's works are theories. Not hypotheses. Try reading "15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense" by the author of Scientific American. Evolution happened and is happening. The newest evidence I can see is the growing resistance of virii to anti-biotics. They are evolving so that anti-biotics are harmless to them.
4.You are either plugged full of preservatives and buried, or you are baked and what's left is stuck in an urn or a box.
5.Who said we don't fly?

My applaudisements to you, very very trully good answsers, especially they provide lots and lots of knowledgeable evidence and truth. Not.
"seriously, how do you stop yapping?"