Crumbling Under Debt
- Thread starter darkbeaver
- Start date
Well, I think the next President is going to be McCain. And I think McCain is more moderate, despite him snuggling up to the religious right. So, yes, I think he will be more responsible. Most likely, what he'd do is let the Bush tax cuts sunset. Remember that most of Bush's cuts expire over the next 5 years. I cannot see the senate and McCain extending them if the deficit goes through the roof.
As for the Dems, this is one area where they can make some real headway. Robert Rubin is going to spearhead a Democrat project to define the party's economic platform. This is good for the Democrats because Americans really don't know what they stand for, except that they're not Bush.
As for the Dems, this is one area where they can make some real headway. Robert Rubin is going to spearhead a Democrat project to define the party's economic platform. This is good for the Democrats because Americans really don't know what they stand for, except that they're not Bush.
Re: RE: Crumbling Under Debt
point of interest, if the US shut down all military spending at this time it would JUST BARELY eliminate the fiscal deficit. barely. forget about the fallout it would have on employment and the pentagon fuelled industries (and they say socialism is dead, heh).
IMO the fiscal deficit is the least of their worries. The Fed itself is not at all convinced clearing it up is going to have a sufficient impact on the trade deficit.* They are LONG overdue for a market correction on that one. My concern is when that happens our own economy is going to miss more than just a few beats.
* The lack of concern out of the powers-that-be over the obvious loss of assets to foreign investment indicates to me the degree to which the transnational's influence the rhetoric of the day.
Toro said:
point of interest, if the US shut down all military spending at this time it would JUST BARELY eliminate the fiscal deficit. barely. forget about the fallout it would have on employment and the pentagon fuelled industries (and they say socialism is dead, heh).
IMO the fiscal deficit is the least of their worries. The Fed itself is not at all convinced clearing it up is going to have a sufficient impact on the trade deficit.* They are LONG overdue for a market correction on that one. My concern is when that happens our own economy is going to miss more than just a few beats.
* The lack of concern out of the powers-that-be over the obvious loss of assets to foreign investment indicates to me the degree to which the transnational's influence the rhetoric of the day.
Ya the transnationals, free capital, money and power without borders or regulation, I 'v been thinking that capital is powerfull and something powerfull needs to be controlled but that was the reason deregulation was advocated, to free capital, the emancipation of capital was and is dangerous and stupid thing to have done. Capital is far to powerfull to let roam the streets without a leash, I think a lot of rules about it were worked out a long time ago and the problems associated with free capital have been overcome and ignored by the rich and actually caused great harm to economies. For the United states to have arrived at an economic crisis like we see now indicates a lack of control, dergulation was stupid and greedy.
That all depends on which side of the level playing field you're standing on. Keep in mind also that there's legions of work-a-day traders itching to show how clever they are and prove to their bosses they can make the firm some money in a bear market. There's plenty of people who won't hesitate to tell you everything is coming up roses.
fwiw, I'm not an opponent of free trade. Its all the crap that's been strapped to it that gets my goat.
fwiw, I'm not an opponent of free trade. Its all the crap that's been strapped to it that gets my goat.
Re: RE: Crumbling Under Debt
The trick is to get us to believe that there is a level playing field and that fair competition and not raw conquest is the real game of the elites.
Capital has empowered itself, I can remember crazy President Ronald heralding in the age of deregulation and self regulation and that unhung thief Mad Mullooney pushing free trade, just free up the markets and emancipate the money and we'll generate hundreds of thousands of good jobs, well it sounded like bullshit then and it's proving to be bullshit now. I'm not an opponent of free trade as such myself but when it's coupled with totally wild and free capital we can redily examine the destruction. Capital has
enjoyed blanket freedom for to long now and it's long past time for a big turn to the left just to get back to the middle.
BitWhys said:
The trick is to get us to believe that there is a level playing field and that fair competition and not raw conquest is the real game of the elites.
Capital has empowered itself, I can remember crazy President Ronald heralding in the age of deregulation and self regulation and that unhung thief Mad Mullooney pushing free trade, just free up the markets and emancipate the money and we'll generate hundreds of thousands of good jobs, well it sounded like bullshit then and it's proving to be bullshit now. I'm not an opponent of free trade as such myself but when it's coupled with totally wild and free capital we can redily examine the destruction. Capital has
enjoyed blanket freedom for to long now and it's long past time for a big turn to the left just to get back to the middle.
Dark Beaver, with out the "emancipation" of capital people like you would be telling people what to do with their investment money and the economy would go belly up...not the other way around. How long have we been doing "free trade" and you guys are still going on and on and on about it....how come we haven't failed yet if it so devastating?
You want to control the economy, why?
You want to control the economy, why?
Re: RE: Crumbling Under Debt
I don't think you know who the enemy is Jay. Paying the debt off would not make the ones you praise happy, they would loose service charges. And you and the idebted would be free, a condition your buddies at the top don't ever want to happen, who would do the work for them.
Jay said:
I don't think you know who the enemy is Jay. Paying the debt off would not make the ones you praise happy, they would loose service charges. And you and the idebted would be free, a condition your buddies at the top don't ever want to happen, who would do the work for them.
Jay I would agree that there is an emptyness in our communication but I believe you are confused about the origin of that void.
Re: RE: Crumbling Under Debt
The economy has been doing the backstroke for quite a while now, seemingly without you being aware of it. What's being discussed today is the very real possibility of it going belly up, read the damn economic forcasts and stop clinging to worn out rhetoric to support your position. If you are unaware of the process of the sacking of the middle class I can only assume that you are filthy rich and the destruction bothers you not at all.
If you think that you're not being told or advised about your money right now you are mistaken. The much sought after freedom of capital was to make it possible for big money to do what ever it wanted to get bigger, getting bigger is big moneys only concern and it's absolute freedom and power has always been exercised for consolodation or monopoly, regulation prevents it from rolling up into one big dirty useless ball.
Jay said:
The economy has been doing the backstroke for quite a while now, seemingly without you being aware of it. What's being discussed today is the very real possibility of it going belly up, read the damn economic forcasts and stop clinging to worn out rhetoric to support your position. If you are unaware of the process of the sacking of the middle class I can only assume that you are filthy rich and the destruction bothers you not at all.
If you think that you're not being told or advised about your money right now you are mistaken. The much sought after freedom of capital was to make it possible for big money to do what ever it wanted to get bigger, getting bigger is big moneys only concern and it's absolute freedom and power has always been exercised for consolodation or monopoly, regulation prevents it from rolling up into one big dirty useless ball.
My wife and I are lower middle class....our pays are increasing.
Yes I am being told what to do with my money, not advised. It's going to pay taxes on everything...you know like 50% gas tax and 75% cigarette tax and 30% Capital gains and 30% off the pay cheque and 3K for property tax and what every their sucking out of me for the booze I drink to keep me from going off the deep end and doing what really should be done.
So who is "sacking the middle class"? You are.
Yes I am being told what to do with my money, not advised. It's going to pay taxes on everything...you know like 50% gas tax and 75% cigarette tax and 30% Capital gains and 30% off the pay cheque and 3K for property tax and what every their sucking out of me for the booze I drink to keep me from going off the deep end and doing what really should be done.
So who is "sacking the middle class"? You are.
#juan said:
That's like having a $180,000 house with a $27,000 mortgage.
The household net worth of the United States is $52 trillion.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/z1r-5.pdf
That's assets after debt.
Assets of the all governments estimated to be $2 trillion, but probably higher. So that's $54 trillion. Subtract government debt in the United States and you get around $45 trillion. With 300 million people in the US, that's a net worth - that's net, as in after all liabilities - of $150,000 per person.