Could the rejection of Religion destroy Marriage.

[Praxius]

Not sure what my paranting has done to create problems in my daughters marriages, as it is far too
complex to just say I didn't do 'this' or 'that', maybe I should have been an alchoholic like my dad,
or a sad and battered mom like mine was, then maybe they would have had more success.
is that how it works?

I'm not sure, and nobody can ever really know what they should or shouldn't have done as parents.... I'm not a parent yet, so I can't judge on that aspect either, but I've been a child before and I can say what it was like as a child going through some of what was mentioned.

That's why I stated I wasn't trying to give you a hard time specifically or blame you directly for how your children's lives turned out.... the above were questions that came to mind when reading your post and the conflicts I saw at the time..... the questions I presented are questions I can see myself asking myself sometime down the road..... and I'll probably come to similar conclusions as you just did..... if I did this thing that I thought was wrong that made me do what I do now, maybe my children would end up doing what I am doing now, rather then taking the path they're taking now.

Nobody can ever know..... but I believe understanding that our actions are related to how our parents brought us up is the next step to understanding our children's actions being related to how we raised them. Parent's are not completely responsible for how their children's lives turn out..... but parents hands are not completely clean of it either.

What I did do was raise them to be very independent, and that independence takes them a long way, on
their own, and they will not be intimidated by anyone, and demand pure equality, and most men are not
ready for real equality, just a bit of equality.

My parents raised my brother, sister and myself to be independent as well..... perhaps a little too independent in my case, but it does help a person know how to deal with situations on their own and learn that there are more important things to worry about in live then to dwell on the little things.... but at the same time, not to put up with BS or people taking advantage of you.... and because of that, one is more apt to making more informed and more serious decisions then someone who's live was filled with things just being handed to them and knowing very little towards independence.

Even though I was raised as I was and I've been independent for quite a while, that still didn't ensure that I wouldn't make stupid mistakes and decisions...... I almost went ahead with marrying my first serious girlfriend, which I know now I would have regretted, as well as my second relationship...... There are just some things that can not be taught or shown..... one has to make the mistakes themselves in order to understand and learn..... and sometimes that learning and understanding doesn't come until after something like marriage.

But it's still better late then never I say...... the sooner you learn from the mistakes you have made in life, the less of your life will be wasted on the wrong path.

oh I know, I should have known the fear of the lord, and instilled that in my daughters, so that they
would have never ended any of their 'bad' marriages, for fear of the lord.
I just said that to get back on topic. lol

Well I'm just saying what makes sense to me..... what I believe is not what I would expect everybody else to believe.... and my situations and experiences may not match up with someone else's situations and experiences. I just know that whether someone decides to marry or not marry..... to have a family or not have a family, is dependent on so many countless variables in life, that while I may feel soemone's relationship is in the wrong and doomed to fail..... I really don't know..... but even if I did, it's still not my place to meddle in someone else's private life and thus, deprive them of their life's lessons, successes and failures...... otherwise they'll never fully understand or learn from their life.

I may feel a relationship is doomed to fail, yet in the long run, they end up staying together all their lives...... then another relationship may look like it's the perfect relationship, yet fail a year or two down the road. It could have relation to having children, the environment the child is living in..... or it could be about their relationship between each other.... or both..... or neither..... or more.

 

[ironsides]

It is not the demise of religion that threatens pair bonding, formalized by marriage whether religious or civil. Geese are not religious; yet they pair bond. Humans pair bond, not because of religion, but because children are slow to develop and require a stable relationship within which to thrive. It is species specific. As a matter of fact, humans (majority - there are exceptions) pair bond in spite of religion. Both early Judaism and Islam permitted multiple wives; and, in the case of Judaism, as many concubines as one could afford. It seems that among Abrahamic religions men in power felt polygamy was a God-given right!

PS to Ironsides
In a modern society, religion is rapidly losing its power of social control. In Britain and Germany, only 5% of the population attends services of any religion. Their societies are not collapsing. In Canada, it is three times that number, yet steadily declining. I know, from my many friends and relatives in the States, the public acceptance of religion is still a shibboleth whether one accepts the myths in one's heart or not!

I agree with you up to this point: "In a modern society, religion is rapidly losing its power of social control. In Britain and Germany, only 5% of the population attends services of any religion. Their societies are not collapsing. In Canada, it is three times that number, yet steadily declining."

In Europe their societies are morphing into a totally different culture because of religious indifference. This new culture has only one religion, that being Muslim. The percentage of children growing up in single parent homes has grown to 1 in 3, one third of children will never know what a so called traditional family is, plus 2 can raise a child better than one. Will this lead to the state taking over raising children in the future? Been tried before. What can be done to strengthen the bond between couples?

 

[Spade]

You are an intelligent man, Ironsides. Personally, I have not seen any difference among Christians, Jews, Moslems, agnostics, etc. in their devotion to family or children. Do not stoop to blanket and misleading charcterizations.

 

[talloola]

Even though I was raised as I was and I've been independent for quite a while, that still didn't ensure that I wouldn't make stupid mistakes and decisions...... I almost went ahead with marrying my first serious girlfriend, which I know now I would have regretted, as well as my second relationship...... There are just some things that can not be taught or shown..... one has to make the mistakes themselves in order to understand and learn..... and sometimes that learning and understanding doesn't come until after something like marriage.
or it could be about their relationship between each other.... or both..... or neither..... or more.

yes, there is just far too many variables than can enter one persons, or a couples lives, that no one can
ever predict with accuracy and a guarantee what will happen, and parents can rack their brains trying to
make sure they do everything just right, but the only thing we can really know after the dust settles
is that you did your very best, did nothing to harm your children, loved them openly, so they know it,
and be dependable and always there for them, and even then, whatever happens, happens.
I agree that everyone has to learn from experience, but the one thing I notice over and over again in
life is, that there is great advice out there that others have experienced that can or could save others
from going thru very miserable situations, but no one ever takes that advice and runs with it, so, in my
opinion that does hold humanity back somewhat, because we all have to go thru our own set backs, without
having learned much from others first.

You mentioned that I should have spoken up before my kids married, when I saw future problems, well I
did with my first daughter, age 19, a few times, we had heart to heart talks, 'now' fast forward to much
later, after the divorce, and she said to me that she had decided to cancel the marriage after our last
talk, and wanted to talk to me again, but my husband and I were away on vacation, then her fiance talked
her into going ahead with it, even after she told him she was not sure, and she never did approach me again till 'our' conversation many years
later, so in hind sight, one more talk would have done it, and that vacation was the difference, so that
is one of the variables that came into play and created a certain path for two people.
She was immature, her first love, he was crazy about her, told her over and over how much he loved her,
and she was not a strong willed person, but very soft and gentle, and didn't have
the strength or maturity to think it out, thankfully no children in that marriage.

When I said before that two parents within a marriage 'can' make a decision to stay together 'for' the
children even though they probably would choose to part, if they were on their own, DOESN'T include
anyone staying with anyone else who is being a 'jerk', but staying with the other who is a good person,
like them, and making it work for a few years till the children are grown and gone.

There are so many marriages that end for silly reasons, when the two people are actually good
people, and with some 'work', they can give it a go for the kids.
Many people have to grow up after they are married, along with their spouse and children, I know
I did, and many times I felt like packing it in when I was young, and that would have been for
stupid immature reasons, not because my spouse was doing anything, he was growing up too.

 

[ironsides]

You are an intelligent man, Ironsides. Personally, I have not seen any difference among Christians, Jews, Moslems, agnostics, etc. in their devotion to family or children. Do not stoop to blanket and misleading charcterizations.

I am not saying that religion holds a marriage together, but something happened to raise the divorce rate. Why do we think nothing of just living together, having children and expecting the goverment to figure out how to divide assets when one decides to leave? (child support will be upheld no matter what the relationship is.) What I am trying to say is that society has made it to easy to get out of a marriage civil or otherwise. Yes, Europe and their societies are morphing into a totally different culture because of religious indifference.

 

[Skatchie]

I know single parents who do a great job, and have well adjusted kids. I know married people who should be executed for the way they treat their kids.

I think you are completely misguided - it's not the marital status that makes a difference, it's how you raise your children. An asshole with a wedding ring is still an asshole.

Good for you. That's not the point. The point is that the idea that a person was conceived in a union that was insubstantial makes a person feel like they are insubstantial. That's the point. Not how they are raised outside of the split. Every action has a reaction. having a child with someone and not being with them anymore has it's own reaction with or without the proper parenting techniques after the fact. That reaction is to feel like they are a product of something impure, because they are. There is no way to not have that be the case. No way.