Controversial annual seal hunt begins in Canada

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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Newfoundland!
I agree with tamarin, sharks are being wiped out just for their fins. It's equally disgusting as the seal hunt. You're either an environmentalist or you aren't. You either have some empathy for animal life or you don't. Making excuses doesn't change things. Both have to stop. Along with animal research.

My position of environmentalism is a realistic one IMO. That is that humans need protein and although it can be found in beans and tofu and so on, meat is a good source and it's unrealistic to stop people from killing animals for meat, and also for other products such as the world famous omega-3's which people shove down their throats all the time thinking it'll make them immortal and supple with no exercise required. Hundreds of products worldwide use animal extracts for all sorts of things, most of which are used by all of us for one reason or another, usually without our knowledge.

I am all for the protection of endangered species and the prevention of anything which will wipe out entire species or diminish their ranges. The seal hunt does neither of these things and is no less humane than the sources of the oils for your makeup, or the beef stew you're cooking for tonight, or the sausages, bacon, or lamb in your freezer.
 

hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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Newfoundland!
#juan posted an interesting link in a previous debate about seal hunting, which covers the myths you are quoting. Maybe either you or he can dig it out again, or summarise what it said about the "club" and it's usage.
 

Nikki

Free Thinker
Jul 6, 2006
326
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calgary,ab
www.avonbynikki.com
My position of environmentalism is a realistic one IMO. That is that humans need protein and although it can be found in beans and tofu and so on, meat is a good source and it's unrealistic to stop people from killing animals for meat, and also for other products such as the world famous omega-3's which people shove down their throats all the time thinking it'll make them immortal and supple with no exercise required. Hundreds of products worldwide use animal extracts for all sorts of things, most of which are used by all of us for one reason or another, usually without our knowledge.

I am all for the protection of endangered species and the prevention of anything which will wipe out entire species or diminish their ranges. The seal hunt does neither of these things and is no less humane than the sources of the oils for your makeup, or the beef stew you're cooking for tonight, or the sausages, bacon, or lamb in your freezer.

In other words, Its' called the food chain. :lol:
 

Nikki

Free Thinker
Jul 6, 2006
326
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calgary,ab
www.avonbynikki.com
#juan posted an interesting link in a previous debate about seal hunting, which covers the myths you are quoting. Maybe either you or he can dig it out again, or summarise what it said about the "club" and it's usage.

I saw the article. And maybe I am wrong about just how much the club is used, maybe my research was flawed I dont know. But it doesn't make a difference because the one fact that can not be disbuted is that the club is still being used. And I am still opposed to the use of the club.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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As often as these threads come up, inevitably the question of vegetarianism comes up. It's often brushed aside as irrelevant, but I do see the relevance. Here are some videos on brutal practices by terrestrial farmers. They are distributed by organizations like PETA. Warning: they are graphic.

That should be plenty. The problem is, that these groups wrongly frame the issue around the actions which do not accuarately represent the whole industry. The same is true for the seal hunt.
 

Nikki

Free Thinker
Jul 6, 2006
326
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calgary,ab
www.avonbynikki.com
This is the link i was referring to, Nikki. Please note myth number 3

Yeah I have seen that webpage. Again, maybe the government of Canada doesn't see it as an inhumane too but the fact of the matter is I do. I am not tramping on anyone's rights to hunt and I am not even advocating for the hunts to stop. I just think that in my opinon the tool shouldn't be used.

Besides can we honestly say that the government is always right and that the government is somthing you shouldn't question.....
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm

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ATLANTIC CANADA SEAL HUNT

MYTHS AND REALITIES

(PDF Version)


Myth #1: The Canadian government allows sealers to kill whitecoat seals.

Reality: The image of the whitecoat harp seal is used prominently by seal hunt opponents. This image gives the false impression that vulnerable seal pups are targeted by sealers during the commercial hunt.
The hunting of harp seal pups (whitecoats) and hooded seal pups (bluebacks) is illegal – and has been since 1987. Marine Mammal Regulations prohibit the trade, sale or barter of the fur of these pups. The seals that are hunted are self-reliant, independent animals.
Myth #2: Seals are being skinned alive.

Reality: A 2002 independent veterinarians’ report published in the Canadian Veterinary Journal and numerous reports mentioned by the Malouf Commission (1987) indicate that this is not true.
Sometimes a seal may appear to be moving after it has been killed; however seals have a swimming reflex that is active – even after death. This reflex gives the false impression that the animal is still alive when it is clearly dead – similar to the reflex in chickens.
Myth #3: The club – or hakapik – is a barbaric and inhumane tool that has no place in today’s world.

Reality: Hunting methods were studied by the Royal Commission on Seals and Sealing in Canada and it found that the clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public.
A 2002 report published in the Canadian Veterinary Journal found that the club or hakapik is an efficient tool designed to kill the animal quickly and humanely.
Sealers in the Magdalen Islands (Gulf of St. Lawrence) and on Quebec's Lower North Shore, where about 25% of the hunt occurs, use both rifles and hakapiks while sealers on the ice floes on the Front (in the waters east of Newfoundland), where 75% of the hunt occurs, primarily use rifles.
Myth #4: The Canadian government is allowing sealers to kill thousands of seals to help with the recovery of cod stocks.

Reality: Several factors have contributed to the lack of recovery of Atlantic cod stocks, such as fishing effort, poor growth and physical condition of the fish, and environmental changes.
In addition, there are many uncertainties in the estimates of the amount of fish consumed by seals. The commercial quota is established on sound conservation principles, not an attempt to assist in the recovery of groundfish stocks.
Myth #5: The hunt is unsustainable and is endangering the harp seal population.

Reality: Since the 1960s, environmental groups have been saying the seal hunt is unsustainable. In fact, the harp seal population is healthy and abundant. A 2004 survey estimated the Northwest Atlantic harp seal population at approximately 5.8 million animals, nearly triple what it was in the 1970s.
DFO sets quotas at levels that ensure the health and abundance of seal herds. In no way are seals - and harp seals in particular – an “endangered species”.
Myth #6: The seal hunt provides such low economic return for sealers that it is not an economically viable industry.

Reality: While markets for seal pelts are subject to significant variation from one year to the next, the 2006 seal hunt was one of the most profitable in memory. Given extremely favourable market conditions, the landed value of the harp seal hunt was $33 million. The average price per pelt received by sealers was $97, an increase of 77% over the 2005 average value of $55.
Seals are a significant source of income for some individual sealers and for thousands of families in Eastern Canada at a time of year when other fishing options are limited at best, in many remote, coastal communities. Sealing also creates employment opportunities for buying and processing plants.
Myth #7: Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) provides subsidies for the seal hunt.

Reality: DFO does not subsidize the seal hunt. Sealing is an economically viable industry. All subsidies ceased in 2001. Even before that time, any subsidies provided were for market and product development, including a meat subsidy, to encourage full use of the seal. In fact, government has provided much less subsidization to the sealing industry than recommended by the Royal Commission on Seals and Sealing.
Myth #8: The seal hunt is loosely monitored and DFO doesn’t punish illegal hunting activity or practices.

Reality: The seal hunt is closely monitored and tightly regulated. Fishery Officers conduct surveillance of the hunt by means of aerial patrols, surface (vessel) patrols, dockside inspections of vessels at landing sites and inspections at buying and processing facilities.
Infractions are taken seriously and sealers who fail to comply with Canada’s Marine Mammal Regulations are penalized. The consequences of such illegal actions could include court-imposed fines and the forfeiting of catches, fishing gear, vessels and licences.
Myth #9: The majority of Canadians are opposed to the seal hunt.

Reality: Animal rights groups currently campaigning against the seal hunt cite a 2004 Ipsos‑Reid poll stating that the majority of Canadians are opposed to the hunt. In fact, Canadians support federal policies regarding the seal hunt. An Ipsos-Reid survey conducted in February 2005 concluded that 60% of Canadians are in favour of a responsible hunt.
 

Nikki

Free Thinker
Jul 6, 2006
326
2
18
calgary,ab
www.avonbynikki.com
As often as these threads come up, inevitably the question of vegetarianism comes up. It's often brushed aside as irrelevant, but I do see the relevance. Here are some videos on brutal practices by terrestrial farmers. They are distributed by organizations like PETA. Warning: they are graphic.

That should be plenty. The problem is, that these groups wrongly frame the issue around the actions which do not accuarately represent the whole industry. The same is true for the seal hunt.
Yeah I think I pretty much said that up above somewhere. Those videos are enough to make anyone puke. But they do not portray the whole industry acurately.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
118
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46
Newfoundland!
you're right that at first glance the "club" seems worse than the rifle. I honestly don't know enough about it to be able to judge for myself, but it seems like a good guess that since it was designed for and by people who needed the food, they weren't going to make something which bruised an animal to death, they'd make it efficient and quick. I trust the inventors of the hakapik more than the government.
 

Nikki

Free Thinker
Jul 6, 2006
326
2
18
calgary,ab
www.avonbynikki.com
you're right that at first glance the "club" seems worse than the rifle. I honestly don't know enough about it to be able to judge for myself, but it seems like a good guess that since it was designed for and by people who needed the food, they weren't going to make something which bruised an animal to death, they'd make it efficient and quick. I trust the inventors of the hakapik more than the government.


It does make some sense. But you have way more faith in humans then I do.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
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bliss
It does make some sense. But you have way more faith in humans then I do.

I have faith that people will do what's in their best interests. Quick kills are best for the hunter.

Besides that, few people with a gun have the skill to make clean headshots, and merely wound the animals before finally getting near enough for the headshot. Even then, they sometimes miss, hitting the body again, still not killing the animal. Seals probably suffer worse at the hands of men with guns than they do with a hakapik to the head.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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Sorry about the extra copy of the facts and myths. I went away to see if I could find it, and posted the thing when I got back without looking

Anyway...My wife and I were in Newfie about three years ago. It seems most seal hunters think the Hakapik is a better tool than the rifle. The seal is usually dead instantly. If another blow is required, it is immediately available, whereas a rifle is now aiming at a moving target.