Conservative Gurmant Grewal

[no1important]

RE: Conservative Gurmant

Apparently Grewal also wanted to stop the investigation about him taking money (refundable guarantees) from immigrants.

Gurmant Grewal has the same mentality as a snake oil salesman. He is sleazy.

 

[Andygal]

I'd say most of that party has the same mentality. Which is why they should never, never form the government.

I wouldn't trust most of them to sell me a toothbrush, let alone run the country.

 

[no1important]

RE: Conservative Gurmant

According to the National tonight those tapes were altered. Why am I not surprised. Grewal should resign forthwith. What a disgrace, especially with all the other shennanigans this guy has done in the past.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Conservative Gurmant

Apparently Grewal also wanted to stop the investigation about him taking money (refundable guarantees) from immigrants.

Gurmant Grewal has the same mentality as a snake oil salesman. He is sleazy.

Then he would have fit in well with the liberals. No matter what, there were offers made. The language used by Stronach when she accepted the "bribe and payoff" is exactly the same language the PM's chief of staff used on these tapes. Priniciples my ass.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Conservative Gurmant

The heads of the Conservative Party had those tapes for two weeks, BA. If the tapes were altered; and even CFRA, the Ottawa radio station owned by uber conservative Lowell Green, say they were; then there is a very good chance that it goes a lot higher than Grewal. Keep in mind that Grewal has said that the main spinner for Harper was fully aware of what he was doing.

If those tapes are doctored it could mean jail time, and not just for Grewal.

Forget the Nixonesque secret taping, your party is corrupt.

 

[mrmom2]

There all corupt Derry They all have the stench of coruption on them :roll:

 

[Karlin]

Altered tapes AND accusations from the CPC conservatives.

Thats how they work - they will BLAME you just after stealing something. For them, its all about what works, "whatever it takes" kind of mindset.

Hmmmm, thats a lot like the Americans.
So are the CPC's Christian Right fundies.

not to be trusted, they are not what they seem!! And boy does that go a long ways, including religion being just a tool.

Good luck with that ,
Karlin

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Conservative Gurmant

It's good to hear the Conservatives prove how corrupt they are though. Maybe Harper will shut his damned mouth for a change.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Conservative Gurmant

The Globe and Mail agrees with CFRA and the CBC, the tapes have been tampered with.

The National Post story is more circumspect, presumably because their readership isn't large enough for them to be able to afford an expert. They do bring up an interesting story from the past though. When Peter MacKay's father was in Parliament they found a bug by his chair. After much investigation and brouhaha it turned out that the bug didn't work and was planted by a private detective employed by the Conservatives. That's right, they bugged them themselves.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Conservative Gurmant

The Globe and Mail agrees with CFRA and the CBC, the tapes have been tampered with.

The National Post story is more circumspect, presumably because their readership isn't large enough for them to be able to afford an expert. They do bring up an interesting story from the past though. When Peter MacKay's father was in Parliament they found a bug by his chair. After much investigation and brouhaha it turned out that the bug didn't work and was planted by a private detective employed by the Conservatives. That's right, they bugged them themselves.

And we all know that the Globe and Mail and the CBC are left wing, so their analysis is suspect as well. Paranoia runs rampant. :twisted:

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Conservative Gurmant

The CBC hired an independent expert who testifies about these things as a professional witness in court. CFRA is so right wing it isn't funny.

The tapes have been altered, BA. Your party is at least as crooked as the Liberals...entrapment, attempting to frame a cabinet minister, trying to exchange favours for votes, Stevie Harper's haircut...these are serious criminal offences. There needs to be an RCMP investigation, arrests made, and charges laid.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Conservative Gurmant

The CBC hired an independent expert who testifies about these things as a professional witness in court. CFRA is so right wing it isn't funny.

The tapes have been altered, BA. Your party is at least as crooked as the Liberals...entrapment, attempting to frame a cabinet minister, trying to exchange favours for votes, Stevie Harper's haircut...these are serious criminal offences. There needs to be an RCMP investigation, arrests made, and charges laid.

I agree, lets have an investigation, unless, of course, the Liberals want to just change that to a review.

I can sympathisize with you because you are just cranky because the Liberals and your beloved NDP climbed into bed with the Bloc yesterday on a vote to have the paramaters of Gomerys report expanded to name names. Now you can no longer accuse the conservatives of cozying up to the Bloc unless you include all your left wing buddies too. That petard must be starting to hurt about now. :twisted:

 

[The Philosopher]

I'm up for a formal investigation. Grewal is innocent until proven guilty. So far the only thing we know is that Grewal did not handle it well. Either way it seems both parties will be in trouble over this. The very fact that they were willing to discuss the potentential of a deal puts both in trouble. It may be possible that Grewal was setting up the Liberals, in that case he is in trouble with the ethics commission. If it was the Liberals making the offer then it is them that will be reported to the ethics commission. That is the minimal for each side.

Just like the sponsorship ordeal this needs to be investigated. All we have now are accusations and journalistic stories.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Conservative Gurmant Grewal

I'm up for a formal investigation. Grewal is innocent until proven guilty. So far the only thing we know is that Grewal did not handle it well. Either way it seems both parties will be in trouble over this. The very fact that they were willing to discuss the potentential of a deal puts both in trouble. It may be possible that Grewal was setting up the Liberals, in that case he is in trouble with the ethics commission. If it was the Liberals making the offer then it is them that will be reported to the ethics commission. That is the minimal for each side.

Just like the sponsorship ordeal this needs to be investigated. All we have now are accusations and journalistic stories.

Some points:

There is no doubt that an offer was made, and no doubt that Martin knew. The language used by Stronach in justifying her switch is identical to the language used by Murphy on the tapes.

There was a report that said the Grewals friend called the Grewals 23 times to continue the discussion, not that Grewal called him 23 times. Grewals friend is a liberal.

After the Inky Mark issue and the switching of STronach, can anybody blame anyone for wanting to tape conversations with Liberals? When there is no tape, the Liberals claim there is no proof, and when there is tape, the Liberals claim it is doctored.

I also read that a Calgary MP was contacted. No matter what, it is obvious by Stronach switching and allegations of these others, that the Liberals were desparate to ensure they had enough votes and were in the buying mode. Whether Grewal contacted the Liberals first, or whether the Liberals contacted Grewal first is immaterial. Offers were made.

And one final point. What spin do you all think the Liberals would have put on it if Stronach and both the Grewals had switched? "The conservatives have proven by these switches that not only are moderate women not welcome, but neither are visible minorities, which just confirms the conservatives are racist, intolerant and bigotted". You all KNOW that would have been the line, that's why they wanted the Grewals so much.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Conservative Gurmant Grewal

I'm up for a formal investigation. Grewal is innocent until proven guilty. So far the only thing we know is that Grewal did not handle it well. Either way it seems both parties will be in trouble over this. The very fact that they were willing to discuss the potentential of a deal puts both in trouble. It may be possible that Grewal was setting up the Liberals, in that case he is in trouble with the ethics commission. If it was the Liberals making the offer then it is them that will be reported to the ethics commission. That is the minimal for each side.

Just like the sponsorship ordeal this needs to be investigated. All we have now are accusations and journalistic stories.

Some points:

There is no doubt that an offer was made, and no doubt that Martin knew. The language used by Stronach in justifying her switch is identical to the language used by Murphy on the tapes.

There was a report that said the Grewals friend called the Grewals 23 times to continue the discussion, not that Grewal called him 23 times. Grewals friend is a liberal.

After the Inky Mark issue and the switching of STronach, can anybody blame anyone for wanting to tape conversations with Liberals? When there is no tape, the Liberals claim there is no proof, and when there is tape, the Liberals claim it is doctored.

I also read that a Calgary MP was contacted. No matter what, it is obvious by Stronach switching and allegations of these others, that the Liberals were desparate to ensure they had enough votes and were in the buying mode. Whether Grewal contacted the Liberals first, or whether the Liberals contacted Grewal first is immaterial. Offers were made.

And one final point. What spin do you all think the Liberals would have put on it if Stronach and both the Grewals had switched? "The conservatives have proven by these switches that not only are moderate women not welcome, but neither are visible minorities, which just confirms the conservatives are racist, intolerant and bigotted". You all KNOW that would have been the line, that's why they wanted the Grewals so much.

 

[bluealberta]

Sorry for the double post, the computer froze :evil:

 

[Derry McKinney]

I can sympathisize with you because you are just cranky because the Liberals and your beloved NDP climbed into bed with the Bloc yesterday on a vote to have the paramaters of Gomerys report expanded to name names.

That's just stupid and if you know anything you know that. The NDP have been consistently critical of the Liberals over Gomery and dozens of other things. Do you not want Gomery to have the authority to name names? That's what it sounds like from here.

You are just trying to change the subject though, so I'll change it back.

Let's have a look at Grewalgate.

Secretly taping somebody...not illegal but certainly unethical, especially in the context of taping high-level politicians in their own homes.

The tapes...Most likely spliced and doctored. That is illegal. It is an attempt to frame a Cabinet Minister. It is evidence tampering. It is a criminal offense.

The Grewal...Definitely an unethical whiner who may have cooked this whole thing up because the Liberals wouldn't pay him off. A political deal is one thing, trying to get his wife a UN gig? That's a whole other ball of wax, especially seeing how she isn't even an effective MP. Check out her website for all of her achievements since being elected. That section is blank. :lol:

The Norquay...It's looking like he's likely in this up to his neck. The head strategist and spinner and he either knew what the Grewal was up to or, quite possibly, coached him.

The Harper...He's on record as being fully supportive of the Grewal's Nixonesque actions. Harper and Norquay have had the tapes for two weeks. They are claiming they were having them translated and transcribed.

The tapes...Let's not forget the tapes. First there 4 hours worth, then there were two hours worth. Now there about 90 minutes worth.

Several experts have said that the tapes appear to be doctored.

The RCMP...If the tapes were as damning as they claimed though, a criminal act had clearly taken place. At that point it is the duty of Harper, Norquay, and the Grewal to go to the RCMP. The RCMP have the facilities to translate and transcribe the tapes. They also have the capacity to launch an investigation and arrest people.

If the tapes were truly damning, I can think of no better political move for the Conservatives. Can you imagine a Cabinet Minister and a chief advisor to the PM being dragged off Parliament Hill in handcuffs? Man, you guys might get back up to 30% in the polls if that happened.

The Harper, the Norquay and the Grewal never went to the RCMP though. In fact they seem as reluctant as the Liberals to see a criminal investigation here. Why is that? Layton called for a criminal investigation. Duceppe called for a criminal investigation. Why didn't Harper call for one? He had the evidence, he should have been the first out of the gate with that. Why wasn't he?

Go ahead and change the subject again, Blue. I'll just change it back.

 

[The Philosopher]

Why does every scandal end up being called ____gate? Does no one realize that Watergate was named after a building?

 

[bluealberta]

DM: I support an inquiry. Given the Liberals record, I am fairly sure they will be found to be in the wrong.

And I started a new post on the new subject, since you failed to understand what I posted.

 

[Derry McKinney]

There is no doubt that an offer was made, and no doubt that Martin knew.

Actually there is a lot of doubt. It was obvious that Stronach was uncomfortable with the Conservatives and fighting with Harper. Since she was a high profile member of the CPC, it isn't really strange that she would get a cabinet position.

The language used by Stronach in justifying her switch is identical to the language used by Murphy on the tapes.

You mean English? That is one of the official languages of this country. You mean vague political-speak? That's the common language in Ottawa. Other than that, you have no way of knowing what language Stronach and Martin and the various go-betweens used because there are no doctored tapes of those conversations that we know of.

There was a report that said the Grewals friend called the Grewals 23 times to continue the discussion, not that Grewal called him 23 times. Grewals friend is a liberal.

Grewal's friend also made first contact with the Liberals. Grewal sent him.

After the Inky Mark issue and the switching of STronach, can anybody blame anyone for wanting to tape conversations with Liberals?

There is no evidence that Inky Mark was approached and his story is so thin that he won't even name names. If he did name somebody, then phone logs could be checked.

I also read that a Calgary MP was contacted.

I read that men from Mars were going to come and steal all the beer on the planet. :roll: You are talking about the claims that are so unsubstantiated that the Conservatives won't even name their own guy.

No matter what, it is obvious by Stronach switching and allegations of these others, that the Liberals were desparate to ensure they had enough votes and were in the buying mode.

Paul Martin has said since the formation of the CPC that he would talk to anybody who wanted to come to the Liberals. That is not illegal. You have no proof of the other allegations.

Whether Grewal contacted the Liberals first, or whether the Liberals contacted Grewal first is immaterial.

No it isn't. If Grewal was out shopping himself around, that's as questionable as anything the Liberals did. From the tapes it appears he was asking, pushing quite hard, for some very specific things. Even if it was some self-initiated sting operation, that's called entrapment.

Offers were made.

Actually they weren't. There were some vague references to something happening in the future, but we've all had prospective employers give us that line of crap.

What spin do you all think the Liberals would have put on it if Stronach and both the Grewals had switched? "The conservatives have proven by these switches that not only are moderate women not welcome, but neither are visible minorities, which just confirms the conservatives are racist, intolerant and bigotted".

That's a pretty good line, especially since the Conservatives are racist, intolerant, and bigoted.

You all KNOW that would have been the line, that's why they wanted the Grewals so much.

I'm still not convinced that they wanted them that badly. A couple of backbenchers...one who is under investigation, one who has nothing listed under the achievement section on her own website. I think the Liberals were happy to play along in hopes that they'd vote against their party, but I don't think the Liberals gave a rat's ass if they crossed the floor or not.