Chavez Takes a Stand
- Thread starter passpatoo
- Start date
It's not a point of view. She signed documents showing that she was part of the coup. Now she's helping Georgie in other ways...by lying like all of the freaks lie.
We've seen the US commit atrocities in South America before, Toro. We know how they operate. Coups, death squads, dictatorships, torture, disappearances, fixing elections. Remember when Reagan died and people were celebrating? That was because exactly the same kind of crap that Bush is trying to pull now.
We've seen the US commit atrocities in South America before, Toro. We know how they operate. Coups, death squads, dictatorships, torture, disappearances, fixing elections. Remember when Reagan died and people were celebrating? That was because exactly the same kind of crap that Bush is trying to pull now.
Article in The Wall Street Journal of June 10
A Young Defender of Democracy Faces Chávez's Wrath
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY
June 10, 2005; Page A9
Thirty-seven-year-old Maria Corina Machado doesn't seem to have planned on a career in public life. After studying engineering at Catholic University in Caracas she earned a post-graduate degree in finance from the Venezuelan business school IESA and went off to work for an auto parts manufacturer in the Venezuelan city of Valencia.
Today, facing charges of conspiracy against her government, she has become an international celebrity for her efforts to defend Venezuelan democracy.
Ms. Machado is one of the leaders of Súmate, a nongovernmental organization resisting efforts by President Hugo Chávez's to turn Venezuela into a dictatorship. Because of its vocal objections to the many steps Chávez has taken to consolidate his power, Súmate has become an "enemy of the people," in the traditional language of tyranny. The conspiracy charge stems from the $31,000 that Súmate took for non-partisan educational work from the U.S.'s National Endowment for Democracy, which promotes free and fair elections abroad.
Ms. Machado could go to jail for up to 16 years. Yet, after the past two weeks, in which she met personally with President Bush in Washington and attended the general assembly of the Organization of American States in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., persecuting her would carry a high price, turning the millions of dollars Chávez has spent on polishing his image abroad into a waste of money. Her case has been internationalized by Mr. Bush himself as a means of showing Venezuelans and the region that he is watching Chávez's misbehavior.
Chávez has known all along that as long as what happens in Venezuela stays in Venezuela, he has the resources to control it. Foot soldiers of his "Bolivarian revolution" spread and enforce his populist propaganda. A gag law keeps media criticism in check.
Managing his international reputation is equally important to him, but far more difficult. Any assessment from his Western Hemisphere neighbors that he has destroyed democracy in Venezuela and has become a potential aggressor would strip him of international legitimacy.
Chávez paints himself as the second coming of Fidel Castro, who few serious politicians would regard as a Latin democrat. To counter criticism, he has tried to demonize Ms. Machado, who has made it her business to expose the Chávez power grab for what it is, and has now won international attention.
Chávez's battle cry is class warfare, even as his policies make poor Venezuelans even poorer. But Ms. Machado hardly fits the image of an uncaring elitist. In 1992 she left her job in Valencia and, together with her mother, established a foundation to care for Caracas street children. Using private donations, her Fundación Atenea took over management of a state detention center housing both orphaned and delinquent children between the ages of eight and 12. The foundation hired trained personnel to work with the 140 children to improve their circumstances within the institution and whenever possible, either return them to their families or move them to more promising living conditions.
Ms. Machado told me by telephone from Florida on Tuesday that because of her role in Súmate, she severed her connections with the foundation so that it would not be politicized. But, even so, the Chávez government recently broke its arrangement with Fundación Atenea and took back the management of the shelter.
Súmate is adamant that it is not concerned with who governs but rather that those in power respect the rule of law. The Venezuelan democracy, Súmate points out, was set up with a separation of powers, an independent judiciary, civil rights and provisions for clean elections. "It is not enough to have elections," Ms. Machado says. "They must be free, fair and transparent. Once elected, you have to behave democratically."
Súmate's charges that Venezuela is losing its democracy have ample supporting evidence. It is a matter of record that the Chávez-controlled National Electoral Council (CNE) had custody of the electronic voting machines in last year's recall referendum and refused to allow an independent audit of the paper ballots. It is also a fact that the president has packed the highest court by adding 12 new seats to what was formerly a 20-seat bench.
Perhaps most alarming, Ms. Machado reminded me Tuesday, is the fact that the 3.5 million Venezuelans who signed petitions in favor of holding a recall vote are now on government lists. Those lists, she said, have been used to fire workers and to discriminate in the disbursement of government benefits.
Since August, Ms. Machado says she has been traveling the country talking to Venezuelans. Even in remote areas she says she has been astounded to hear from so many individuals who claim to have experienced intimidation at the hands of chavistas because they dare to differ.
To try to maintain his popularity, Chávez spends government revenues, which come mainly from state-owned oil, on free-wheeling social programs. But it's hard to tell from opinion polls just how popular he is, given the threats critics face. Venezuelans worry that he is systematically destroying institutional checks and balances so if and when his support collapses, his removal will be impossible.
The next critical date for the democracy will be Aug. 7, when the country will hold municipal elections. Ms. Machado contends that the process will become the template for the vote for national assembly representatives in December and the presidential elections in 2006.
Ms. Machado plays down her role in mobilizing the democratic movement. Instead, she passes credit to her Súmate colleagues, especially founder Alejandro Plaz also charged with conspiracy by Chávez, and others, like Oscar Valles who spoke for Súmate at the OAS meeting. Mostly, she emphasizes, "This is the hard work of thousands of Venezuelans who want to live in a democracy."
A Young Defender of Democracy Faces Chávez's Wrath
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY
June 10, 2005; Page A9
Thirty-seven-year-old Maria Corina Machado doesn't seem to have planned on a career in public life. After studying engineering at Catholic University in Caracas she earned a post-graduate degree in finance from the Venezuelan business school IESA and went off to work for an auto parts manufacturer in the Venezuelan city of Valencia.
Today, facing charges of conspiracy against her government, she has become an international celebrity for her efforts to defend Venezuelan democracy.
Ms. Machado is one of the leaders of Súmate, a nongovernmental organization resisting efforts by President Hugo Chávez's to turn Venezuela into a dictatorship. Because of its vocal objections to the many steps Chávez has taken to consolidate his power, Súmate has become an "enemy of the people," in the traditional language of tyranny. The conspiracy charge stems from the $31,000 that Súmate took for non-partisan educational work from the U.S.'s National Endowment for Democracy, which promotes free and fair elections abroad.
Ms. Machado could go to jail for up to 16 years. Yet, after the past two weeks, in which she met personally with President Bush in Washington and attended the general assembly of the Organization of American States in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., persecuting her would carry a high price, turning the millions of dollars Chávez has spent on polishing his image abroad into a waste of money. Her case has been internationalized by Mr. Bush himself as a means of showing Venezuelans and the region that he is watching Chávez's misbehavior.
Chávez has known all along that as long as what happens in Venezuela stays in Venezuela, he has the resources to control it. Foot soldiers of his "Bolivarian revolution" spread and enforce his populist propaganda. A gag law keeps media criticism in check.
Managing his international reputation is equally important to him, but far more difficult. Any assessment from his Western Hemisphere neighbors that he has destroyed democracy in Venezuela and has become a potential aggressor would strip him of international legitimacy.
Chávez paints himself as the second coming of Fidel Castro, who few serious politicians would regard as a Latin democrat. To counter criticism, he has tried to demonize Ms. Machado, who has made it her business to expose the Chávez power grab for what it is, and has now won international attention.
Chávez's battle cry is class warfare, even as his policies make poor Venezuelans even poorer. But Ms. Machado hardly fits the image of an uncaring elitist. In 1992 she left her job in Valencia and, together with her mother, established a foundation to care for Caracas street children. Using private donations, her Fundación Atenea took over management of a state detention center housing both orphaned and delinquent children between the ages of eight and 12. The foundation hired trained personnel to work with the 140 children to improve their circumstances within the institution and whenever possible, either return them to their families or move them to more promising living conditions.
Ms. Machado told me by telephone from Florida on Tuesday that because of her role in Súmate, she severed her connections with the foundation so that it would not be politicized. But, even so, the Chávez government recently broke its arrangement with Fundación Atenea and took back the management of the shelter.
Súmate is adamant that it is not concerned with who governs but rather that those in power respect the rule of law. The Venezuelan democracy, Súmate points out, was set up with a separation of powers, an independent judiciary, civil rights and provisions for clean elections. "It is not enough to have elections," Ms. Machado says. "They must be free, fair and transparent. Once elected, you have to behave democratically."
Súmate's charges that Venezuela is losing its democracy have ample supporting evidence. It is a matter of record that the Chávez-controlled National Electoral Council (CNE) had custody of the electronic voting machines in last year's recall referendum and refused to allow an independent audit of the paper ballots. It is also a fact that the president has packed the highest court by adding 12 new seats to what was formerly a 20-seat bench.
Perhaps most alarming, Ms. Machado reminded me Tuesday, is the fact that the 3.5 million Venezuelans who signed petitions in favor of holding a recall vote are now on government lists. Those lists, she said, have been used to fire workers and to discriminate in the disbursement of government benefits.
Since August, Ms. Machado says she has been traveling the country talking to Venezuelans. Even in remote areas she says she has been astounded to hear from so many individuals who claim to have experienced intimidation at the hands of chavistas because they dare to differ.
To try to maintain his popularity, Chávez spends government revenues, which come mainly from state-owned oil, on free-wheeling social programs. But it's hard to tell from opinion polls just how popular he is, given the threats critics face. Venezuelans worry that he is systematically destroying institutional checks and balances so if and when his support collapses, his removal will be impossible.
The next critical date for the democracy will be Aug. 7, when the country will hold municipal elections. Ms. Machado contends that the process will become the template for the vote for national assembly representatives in December and the presidential elections in 2006.
Ms. Machado plays down her role in mobilizing the democratic movement. Instead, she passes credit to her Súmate colleagues, especially founder Alejandro Plaz also charged with conspiracy by Chávez, and others, like Oscar Valles who spoke for Súmate at the OAS meeting. Mostly, she emphasizes, "This is the hard work of thousands of Venezuelans who want to live in a democracy."
We've already been over this, Toro. You might try selling your propaganda someplace else.
Machado was involved in the illegal coup to overthrow Chavez. The National Endowment for Democracy is anything but non-partisan outside the United States. In fact it's actions in Venezuela were anything anti-democratic since its goal was install an oligarchy friendly to the Bush regime and unfriendly to the Venezuelan people.
Give it up, Toro. The woman tried to overthrow her government then, when that didn't work, got involved in trying to subvert an election. She's nothing more than a shill for the Bush regime and everybody outside of the US understands that. If she can't do the time, Bush and the CIA shouldn't have had her do the crime.
Here is a question for you though...How come your press isn't covering the democratic Blue Revolution going on in Bolivia the same way they covered the Ukraine? It's the same thing after all...a populist uprising demanding democracy.
Machado was involved in the illegal coup to overthrow Chavez. The National Endowment for Democracy is anything but non-partisan outside the United States. In fact it's actions in Venezuela were anything anti-democratic since its goal was install an oligarchy friendly to the Bush regime and unfriendly to the Venezuelan people.
Give it up, Toro. The woman tried to overthrow her government then, when that didn't work, got involved in trying to subvert an election. She's nothing more than a shill for the Bush regime and everybody outside of the US understands that. If she can't do the time, Bush and the CIA shouldn't have had her do the crime.
Here is a question for you though...How come your press isn't covering the democratic Blue Revolution going on in Bolivia the same way they covered the Ukraine? It's the same thing after all...a populist uprising demanding democracy.
Almost forgot...if you've got a spare buck or two and are tired of the propaganda about South America coming out of the US press you might want to give a bit to The Fund for Authentic Journalism
Reverend Blair said:
Just remember though what Rev thinks about freedom of the press
Reverend Blair said:
http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5433&start=0
Yeah, take a sarcastic statement completely out of context, el toro mierda. What the matter, don't like when your heroes get caught trying to install install dictatorships to control oil reserves?
Reverend Blair said:
http://www.canadiancontent.net/en/j...ntent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5433&start=0
Shutting down the press, just like your buddy Chavez.
I've been reading about the Bolivia deal in just about every major paper down here. WashPost, NYTimes, local papers with the Associated Press, and on NPR....
OH by the way, that Ukranian election and protest had a lot of hidden, powerful friends that kept those people in the public square alive and free.
OH by the way, that Ukranian election and protest had a lot of hidden, powerful friends that kept those people in the public square alive and free.
Keep it up, el toro mierda. Your link provides the context. I was clearly being sarcastic when I said that.
Have you checked out the South American press, Jim? The people support Evo Morales more than anyone in government. Looks like Bolivia is about to join the Bolivarian Revolution.
Have you checked out the South American press, Jim? The people support Evo Morales more than anyone in government. Looks like Bolivia is about to join the Bolivarian Revolution.
"The US says it will not deport Mr Posada Carriles to any country that would hand him over to Fidel Castro's regime in Cuba.
Venezuela has said it will not hand Mr Posada Carriles over, and Mr Castro has insisted he will be happy to see him tried there. "
Thats all that stands between solving this disagreement. If America cannot do this small thing, they are being stubborn. Any govt. that gets what it wants by being stubborn is not worthy of diplomatic relations.
Stubborn, Bully, Dominant, and has no problem doing "whatever it takes" - this is modern American politics. I am sure we had hoped for something a little more 'intellectual' by now. Bush appeals to lowest common denominators [thanks for that obs.Lisa Simpson] and thats why its behaving like a bottom dweller itself.
Karlin
PS- this is my first post using Mozilla instead of Internet Explorer - I will do anything to not be normal, it helps defeat the ruling class.
Venezuela has said it will not hand Mr Posada Carriles over, and Mr Castro has insisted he will be happy to see him tried there. "
Thats all that stands between solving this disagreement. If America cannot do this small thing, they are being stubborn. Any govt. that gets what it wants by being stubborn is not worthy of diplomatic relations.
Stubborn, Bully, Dominant, and has no problem doing "whatever it takes" - this is modern American politics. I am sure we had hoped for something a little more 'intellectual' by now. Bush appeals to lowest common denominators [thanks for that obs.Lisa Simpson] and thats why its behaving like a bottom dweller itself.
Karlin
PS- this is my first post using Mozilla instead of Internet Explorer - I will do anything to not be normal, it helps defeat the ruling class.
Welcome to the world of Mozilla, Karlin. It makes many problems disappear.
The US refusal to extradite Carilles for a terrorist act is hugely hypocritical. Can you imagine if Venezuela had a member of al Qaeda in custody and refused to send him to the US? The screaming and threats would never stop.
The US refusal to extradite Carilles for a terrorist act is hugely hypocritical. Can you imagine if Venezuela had a member of al Qaeda in custody and refused to send him to the US? The screaming and threats would never stop.
Re: RE: Chavez Takes a Stand
Sure, Reverend SYM. Suuuurrrreeeee. I don't see any avatar. Its pretty clear that you have a hidden agenda. You're revealing the conspiracy of the Far Left to crush the free press in Canada. You realize your mistake so now you're back-peddling, denying and spinning. Now you're playing denial games. Tough luck. You got nailed as a spinner.
Reverend Blair said:
Sure, Reverend SYM. Suuuurrrreeeee. I don't see any avatar. Its pretty clear that you have a hidden agenda. You're revealing the conspiracy of the Far Left to crush the free press in Canada. You realize your mistake so now you're back-peddling, denying and spinning. Now you're playing denial games. Tough luck. You got nailed as a spinner.
Re: RE: Chavez Takes a Stand
Okay, lets talk positively. That's a good idea. I think there should be land reform in the Venezuela and some of the Latin American countries. The concentration of wealth in a few hands is not good. I think the US shouldn't be meddling in Venezuela, and a lot of the negative sentiment about the gringoes is at least somewhat justified. Chavez is the democratically elected President and the wishes of the people should be heeded. I think it is a good thing that he working towards alleviating the plight of the poor.
However, I also think that he should be called onto the carpet when he does bad things. If he's driving technical people out of PDVSA, that's not something we should just chalk up to merely CIA involvement. Stratifying the world in black and white doesn't solve problems.
You referenced what's been going on in Bolivia, I think as another example of the coming Bolivaran revolution. Well, maybe but probably not. Look what has actually been happening throughout the rest of South America. Left-wing governments in Brazil, Uruguary, Chile, etc. aren't adopting the policies and language of Castro but instead of Tony Blair. These democratically elected leftist governments understand that the policies of Castro and that brand of revolution has been a failure, as they have throughout the world. That doesn't mean you can't have land reform or education or health care, but you can't look at the business class as exploiters either.
Reverend Blair said:
Okay, lets talk positively. That's a good idea. I think there should be land reform in the Venezuela and some of the Latin American countries. The concentration of wealth in a few hands is not good. I think the US shouldn't be meddling in Venezuela, and a lot of the negative sentiment about the gringoes is at least somewhat justified. Chavez is the democratically elected President and the wishes of the people should be heeded. I think it is a good thing that he working towards alleviating the plight of the poor.
However, I also think that he should be called onto the carpet when he does bad things. If he's driving technical people out of PDVSA, that's not something we should just chalk up to merely CIA involvement. Stratifying the world in black and white doesn't solve problems.
You referenced what's been going on in Bolivia, I think as another example of the coming Bolivaran revolution. Well, maybe but probably not. Look what has actually been happening throughout the rest of South America. Left-wing governments in Brazil, Uruguary, Chile, etc. aren't adopting the policies and language of Castro but instead of Tony Blair. These democratically elected leftist governments understand that the policies of Castro and that brand of revolution has been a failure, as they have throughout the world. That doesn't mean you can't have land reform or education or health care, but you can't look at the business class as exploiters either.
Right castro is a failure...funny how cuba is more respected than your government is...At least he does not try to pretend he is anything but what he is.
Since you've been here, you've done nothing but promote the actions of the Bush regime and attack Chavez.
Chavez is not the one who initiated that though. The rich owners and managers locked out the workers. They tried to take over the ports. There are many indications that the CIA and your precious National Endowment for Democracy were heavily involved in that. Your press publicized the rich people striking, but did not cover the actions the poor people took to fight back. You ignore that Chavez was following the will of his people when he took the oil fields and port back.
The fact that he isn't forcing the technical people and managers to stay against their will and work under his terms should be applauded. Is it a problem in the short-term? Yeah, but not as bad as the money boys are making it out to be and it will correct itself as people learn more skills.
Actually, they are all emulating Chavez to some extent. If you want to compare to Britain, they are closer to the pre-Blair Labour Party than to Blair. If you want to compare them to Canada, they are very close to the governments of Manitoba and Saskatchewan, or the proposed policies of the federal NDP.
When the business class acts as exploiters, then they need to be treated as such. Look what happened in Argentina...the business class ran the country right into the ground then, when things got bad, shipped all of their money to the US and abandoned the factories. When workers took over the factories and made them work, the business class came back and demanded their factories back. That is not acceptable.