Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar

[Reverend Blair]

From Nascar Zero's link.

which included the use of firearms by some protestors.

Hugo Chávez was democratically elected president in 1998 and, after the approval of a new constitution in 1999, was re-elected for a further six-year term in 2000.

His administration committed itself to ending the corruption associated with the ruling political class and addressing longstanding social injustices, which have made Venezuela one of most unequal societies in the region.

President Chávez has maintained considerable support, particularly amongst Venezuela’s poor and excluded, where social projects have been targeted.

The confrontation between the government and the opposition has been characterised by violent discourse, with the private media explicitly supporting the opposition

In April 2002 the confrontation between the opposition and the government led to wide-scale political violence and a short lived coup d’etat forcing the president from office for 48 hours, leaving at least 50 people dead and many more wounded. The human rights violations committed in this context have not been clarified and virtually all those allegedly responsible have avoided prosecution.

At the end of 2002 the opposition once again tried to force President Chávez from office with an indefinite national strike, particularly affecting Venezuela’s crucial oil industry.

During 2003 there were frequent rumours of impending coup d’etats and continuing polarization - the government accused the opposition of conspiring by non-constitutional means to bring down the democratically elected government, such as occurred in April 2002.

Despite this, the political negotiations between the sides contributed to a reduction in reports of political violence.

The opposition required 2.4 million signatures to trigger the referendum, and claim they collected 3.2 million, but the electoral authority’s preliminary decision recognised only 1.8 million as valid, requiring more than 800,000 to be re-authenticated and the remaining signatures were ruled invalid. The OAS and the Carter Center said that they had "some discrepancies with the CNE over the verification criteria"(4), but called on the opposition to remain within the process for establishing the re-authentication procedures.

On 27 February a summit of G15 leaders from the developing world was held in central Caracas. The opposition called a demonstration rejecting the decision of the CNE.

While the opposition and the government blame each other for the rapid manner in which the demonstrations led to violent confrontation, over the following days there were street protests in many different parts of Venezuela. The majority of demonstrations were by opposition supporters protesting at the CNE decision (which was finally made public on 2 March)

Many demonstrations rapidly became violent confrontations between the Guardia Nacional (GN), National Guard(5) and groups of opposition supporters using barricades, stones, Molotov cocktails and firework rockets. There were also several reports of protesters using firearms. In this context, there were clearly legitimate public security concerns, which the authorities had a duty to respond to.

These types of human rights violations committed by police and security forces have occurred in Venezuela over many years, particularly in situations of mass public demonstrations or civil disturbances. In 1989, in what is known as the "Caracazo", over 250 people were killed in the context of security forces’ response to massive street protests and civil disorder. In 1992 the security forces intervention in the Catia detention centre led to the deaths of over 60 inmates.

(pre-Chavez)

In the civil disturbances of 27 February to 4 March 2004 Amnesty International recognises that wide scale indiscriminate or extrajudicial killings were avoided in the face of frequently violent demonstrations.

While many opposition supporters took part in legitimate peaceful demonstrations, a significant number of these protests were violent with the use of barricades, stones, Molotov cocktails, and fireworks and, in some cases, firearms. It is the duty of the state to guarantee public order, respecting the rule of law in accordance with international standards.

If you actually read the report and compare it to reports from before Chavez was in power, you will find that things are better now and have been improving. That's in spite of anti-Chavez protestors who bring guns to demonstrations and interference from the United States.

Nascar Zero here would return, undemocratically, the elites who were previously in power. They tortured, killed, maimed and beat people with impunity. They controlled all of the press, state and private, so that news reports never got out. They kept the poor uneducated, unhealthy, and terrorised.

Meanwhile, Nascar Zero is to thick to admit that his country, which has been actively trying to remove Chavez from power, has perpetrated far more human rights abuses as well as breaking laws and removing democratically elected leaders from power while supporting military juntas and propping up some of the worst murderers that the world has ever seen.

Nascar James...liar and supporter of human rights abuses all over the world just as long as he gets cheap oil.

 

[Durgan]

Venezuela is on the current US hit list figuratively speaking. Venzeuela is a great country in transition, with a new type of leader being maligned by the USA.

http://loucelix.notlong.com

Here is a URL to a fact sheet about Venezuela.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/

Chevez and Venezuela.
Population 25,375,281
Population below poverty line 46% about 14 million people.
Unemployment 17%
Huge oil reserves the fifth largest oil producer in the world.

Driving into Caracas is an eye opener. The hillsides are covered with poor housing, where them that don’t have it live. My hotel in the middle of Caracas was five stars, with an underground shopping district comparable with any upper high class model in the world.

The two solitudes rich and poor co-exist. The poor appear to be well fed as are all the people judging by the well rounded populace. Unfortunately there are many McDonald outlets. It would appear most of the wealth is controlled by a few, and a few crumbs are dispensed to keep the lesser people sort of subdued.

In a Democracy, such as Venezuela, the disadvantaged if organized can muster a majority of the vote. This is what happened in Venezuela. Chavez won. His immediate concern was to distribute a greater share of the oil wealth amongst the people. Needless to say this upset those who had it, and increased support for the government from those who had little. Naturally those living so high off the hog got upset. Democracy has a major problem with one man one vote. It seems the organized have nots can upset the comfortable applecart. The ballot only has clout if organized and voting takes place as a coherent group. Democracy works much to the chagrin of some.

A shift in power and doctrine occurred, which was achieved in a democratic manner. This type of government change is almost unheard of in the West, where a comfortable middle class exist. Most government changes in the West do not shift a great deal of wealth from a select few to the remainder. At most we get a change of hogs at the trough.

Venezuela's 2005 budget projects government spending of about $13 billion, or 40 percent of expenditures, on social programs such as education, health care, housing and pensions. Kudos!

A few Quotes that are rather interesting.
Quote
"It is mistaken to argue that Chávez does not come from a tradition of fighting for democracy. On the contrary, the Chavista movement is a product of the lack of democracy in Venezuela between 1958 and 1998, a product of the social, economic and political exclusion that prevailed throughout that time and a product of massive disaffection with corrupt and politicized state institutions. We may not be enthralled by the type of democracy Chávez is seeking to build, or the manner in which he has chosen to do this, but it is important to note that the Chávez government has brought marginalized and excluded people into the political process and democratized power." Unquote

Quote
At the end of February 2004, Chávez told thousands of people that President Bush was a “pendejo” if he believed what others were telling him about Venezuela. The word “pendejo” in Venezuela means “a person of whom others are taking advantage.” It is not a compliment, but it is nowhere as insulting as “asshole.” “Asshole” is very strong and Chávez did not use the word.Unquote

Population below poverty line 46% about 14 million people. This is a recipe for change all that is needed is a leader. It has happened. I might add even the Roman Catholic Church in Venezuela is upset. "Tough titty", said the kitty, when the titty went dry.

Now:
Deny the facts, Hide the evidence,Shoot the messenger.

Durgan.

 

[jimmoyer]

Chavez ! Our new Saviour !

Behold !

We are unworthy.

I wish this Man Of The People do well, and now with the royalties, he just might do very well.

Hmm.

Hmmm.... This Maker's Mark is hitting the spot.

 

[peapod]

Thats right jim bob, guess you will have to mosey on after someone else's barrel of oil. Careful tho..the world has had of enough of your greed and undemocratic methods. Stop preaching to us and actually practice some of ethics and morals you spout on about.

 

[pastafarian]

It seems pretty simple to me: Chavez is not a saint because saints get crucified.

Just as they did during the reigns of Aristide in Haiti, Castro in Cuba, Allende in Chile, Mossadeq in Iran, Arbenz in Guatemala, the CIA and the privileged, corrupt ruling class are crying foul that the population wants a slice of the pie that they baked. Unlike in most of the previous cases, the US coup failed, so the propagandists have to cry "Commie", "Terrorist" or "LIberal" to their abjectly ignorant brainwashed serfs and the lesser royalty in the Senate and the House, so that no one gets the un-Christian idea that the poor actually deserve a share of the pie.

I love the Chavez observation that "Jesus was the first socialist: Judas, the first capitalist."

Missionaries have been used as CIA agents since at least the early 1960's in Latin America (notably in Guatemala), probably due to the fact that American Protestant missionaries tend to have a particularly simplistic view of the relationship of communist and capitalist ideology to the message of the Gospels, or, as in the case of Pat robertson and his ilk, worship Mammon rather than Jesus.

 

[Nascar_James]

From Nascar Zero's link.

which included the use of firearms by some protestors.

Hugo Chávez was democratically elected president in 1998 and, after the approval of a new constitution in 1999, was re-elected for a further six-year term in 2000.

His administration committed itself to ending the corruption associated with the ruling political class and addressing longstanding social injustices, which have made Venezuela one of most unequal societies in the region.

President Chávez has maintained considerable support, particularly amongst Venezuela’s poor and excluded, where social projects have been targeted.

The confrontation between the government and the opposition has been characterised by violent discourse, with the private media explicitly supporting the opposition

In April 2002 the confrontation between the opposition and the government led to wide-scale political violence and a short lived coup d’etat forcing the president from office for 48 hours, leaving at least 50 people dead and many more wounded. The human rights violations committed in this context have not been clarified and virtually all those allegedly responsible have avoided prosecution.

At the end of 2002 the opposition once again tried to force President Chávez from office with an indefinite national strike, particularly affecting Venezuela’s crucial oil industry.

During 2003 there were frequent rumours of impending coup d’etats and continuing polarization - the government accused the opposition of conspiring by non-constitutional means to bring down the democratically elected government, such as occurred in April 2002.

Despite this, the political negotiations between the sides contributed to a reduction in reports of political violence.

The opposition required 2.4 million signatures to trigger the referendum, and claim they collected 3.2 million, but the electoral authority’s preliminary decision recognised only 1.8 million as valid, requiring more than 800,000 to be re-authenticated and the remaining signatures were ruled invalid. The OAS and the Carter Center said that they had "some discrepancies with the CNE over the verification criteria"(4), but called on the opposition to remain within the process for establishing the re-authentication procedures.

On 27 February a summit of G15 leaders from the developing world was held in central Caracas. The opposition called a demonstration rejecting the decision of the CNE.

While the opposition and the government blame each other for the rapid manner in which the demonstrations led to violent confrontation, over the following days there were street protests in many different parts of Venezuela. The majority of demonstrations were by opposition supporters protesting at the CNE decision (which was finally made public on 2 March)

Many demonstrations rapidly became violent confrontations between the Guardia Nacional (GN), National Guard(5) and groups of opposition supporters using barricades, stones, Molotov cocktails and firework rockets. There were also several reports of protesters using firearms. In this context, there were clearly legitimate public security concerns, which the authorities had a duty to respond to.

These types of human rights violations committed by police and security forces have occurred in Venezuela over many years, particularly in situations of mass public demonstrations or civil disturbances. In 1989, in what is known as the "Caracazo", over 250 people were killed in the context of security forces’ response to massive street protests and civil disorder. In 1992 the security forces intervention in the Catia detention centre led to the deaths of over 60 inmates.

(pre-Chavez)

In the civil disturbances of 27 February to 4 March 2004 Amnesty International recognises that wide scale indiscriminate or extrajudicial killings were avoided in the face of frequently violent demonstrations.

While many opposition supporters took part in legitimate peaceful demonstrations, a significant number of these protests were violent with the use of barricades, stones, Molotov cocktails, and fireworks and, in some cases, firearms. It is the duty of the state to guarantee public order, respecting the rule of law in accordance with international standards.

If you actually read the report and compare it to reports from before Chavez was in power, you will find that things are better now and have been improving. That's in spite of anti-Chavez protestors who bring guns to demonstrations and interference from the United States.

Nascar Zero here would return, undemocratically, the elites who were previously in power. They tortured, killed, maimed and beat people with impunity. They controlled all of the press, state and private, so that news reports never got out. They kept the poor uneducated, unhealthy, and terrorised.

Meanwhile, Nascar Zero is to thick to admit that his country, which has been actively trying to remove Chavez from power, has perpetrated far more human rights abuses as well as breaking laws and removing democratically elected leaders from power while supporting military juntas and propping up some of the worst murderers that the world has ever seen.

Nascar James...liar and supporter of human rights abuses all over the world just as long as he gets cheap oil.

Well Rev, you had your little say, and now it's my turn.

Ok now, here goes ... the real issues in Velezuela under Chavez ... aka Dictator Chavez ...

CNN News:
CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) -- Venezuela's highest Catholic prelate on Sunday condemned President Hugo Chavez's rule as a dictatorship and urged Venezuelans to reject it. "I am convinced that what we have here is a dictatorship," Cardinal Rosalio Castillo, who is retired, said in a interview published by El Universal newspaper.

He told Venezuelans to use their constitutional right to refuse to recognize the left-wing president on the grounds he was not ruling democratically. Castillo did not elaborate on what actions he thought Venezuelans should take.

The cardinal scoffed at a recent assertion by Chavez that his government was following the teaching of Jesus Christ by spending Venezuela's oil wealth to help the poor. "His goal above all is not to help the poor but to concentrate his power," Castillo said.

The cardinal said Article 350 of Venezuela's 1999 Constitution allowed citizens to refuse to recognize an elected leader if he violated democratic principles or human rights. "That's what should be done -- reject this government," he said.

Amnesty International:
titled: Venezuela Human Rights under Threat
Between 27 February and 4 March 2004 political violence erupted once again in Venezuela. According to information received by Amnesty International, in the context of the disturbances, as many as 14 people were killed in circumstances that have yet to be clarified and over 200 people were injured, with credible reports of excessive use of force by Chavez's security forces. Furthermore, the cases included in this report indicate that several of those detained were not only not involved in criminal acts prior to detention, but then faced ill-treatment and torture while in the custody of the security forces.

Reports received also indicate that subsequent investigations undertaken by the Cuerpo de Investigaciones Científicas, Penales y Criminalísticas (CICPC)(1), Technical Police, Fiscalía General de la Nación , Attorney General’s Office, and Defensoría del Pueblo, Human Rights Ombudsman’s Office, to establish the facts around these alleged abuses and prosecute those responsible have been slow and inadequate. In comparison, these same authorities have acted with energy against opposition activists who allegedly participated in or incited violence. Over recent years, these institutions have failed to fulfil their constitutional role to act with equal impartiality against government supporters and opponents accused of committing crimes related to the ongoing political crisis. This lack of impartiality, combined with long standing structural weaknesses of these key institutions, threatens to strengthen the culture of impunity that has accompanied human rights abuses over many years in Venezuela.

On 18 March 2004 the Inter American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) published a major country report on Venezuela (Report on the Situation of Human Rights in Venezuela, OEA/Ser.L/V/II.118) highlighting many of these serious longstanding institutional weaknesses related to the rule of law and the respect for civil and political rights. The IACHR recommendations provide a clear blueprint for the government to tackle these issues and strengthen the effectiveness and impartiality of key branches of the State, particularly the justice sector.

The administration has been accused of inciting supporters to threaten and attack media workers who are identified with the opposition and many of these cases have never been adequately investigated by the authorities.

Amnesty International believes security forces responding to serious breaches in public order on a number of occasions employed excessive use of force to disperse or detain demonstrators, and subsequently subjected several detainees to ill-treatment or torture. These types of human rights violations committed by police and security forces have occurred in Venezuela over many years, particularly in situations of mass public demonstrations or civil disturbances.

In recent years Amnesty International and national human rights organizations have also documented extra legal killings, torture and other serious human rights violations committed by police and security forces in the context of social cleansing or combating common crime in different parts of the country. These cases, often affecting poor and marginalized communities, gain little public attention and receive an equally inadequate official response; exposing the victims and their families to threats and intimidation and leaving members of the police and security forces responsible free to commit further human rights violations.

In the civil disturbances of 27 February to 4 March 2004 Amnesty International recognises that wide scale indiscriminate or extrajudicial killings were avoided in the face of frequently violent demonstrations. However, rather than acknowledge the use of excessive force and torture in a significant number of cases and ensure full, thorough and impartial investigations, the authorities made numerous public statements offering unqualified support for the conduct of the security forces and sought to dismiss or downplay allegations of human rights violations as merely part of the opposition strategy to discredit the government. The government only reluctantly agreed the need to investigate alleged abuses in the face of numerous complaints and strong national and international pressure.

In November 2002, the United Nations Committee against Torture welcomed such key elements of the 1999 Constitution and a number of other advances in the legal framework to prevent and punish acts of torture, but expressed concern at the continuing incidence of torture cases and the failure to investigate or punish those responsible. The Committee called for the introduction of specific anti-torture legislation to make effective the Constitutional prohibition. Despite efforts by national human rights organizations to advance both the legal and practical efforts to combat torture, no substantive progress has been made since the Committee made its recommendations. The inadequate legal framework, the absence of effective investigations and the increasing lack of credibility of institutions such as the CICPC, Attorney General’s Office and the Defensoría del Pueblo, continue to make impunity for crimes of ill-treatment, torture or excessive use of force the norm.

from USA Today:
Jose Kayupare of the Puinare tribe challenged Chavez's claims that the Sanford, Fla.-based New Tribes Mission constituted an "imperialist infiltration" that was exploiting native communities.

"For those of us who live in the jungle, this really is a decision that the majority of indigenous people in Amazonas (state) don't support and that we are not going to accept under any circumstances," Kayupare told reporters.

He said the New Tribes Mission has helped Indian communities ravaged by malaria and other diseases in Venezuela, sometimes airlifting the sick to medical assistance, when the government and others had abandoned them.

"Why don't they ask (the Indian communities) ... if they've really been abused?" asked Domingo Gonzalez, an indigenous Venezuelan working with the group.

"The indigenous Venezuelans need to be heard, not to be spoken for," Gonzalez said, accusing the government of being "the ones who really harm and oppress them."

The country's top evangelical organization, The Evangelical Council of Venezuela, issued a statement defending the missionaries' work and denying the group had any ties with the U.S. government or was working for profit.

from CBS News:
In New York, meanwhile, Venezuela's U.N. Ambassador Milos Alcalay resigned to protest what he said were human rights violations and threats to democracy in the oil-producing South American nation of 24 million people. Alcalay had represented his country abroad for 30 years.

Outside the Supreme Court in eastern Caracas, protesting Venezuelans chanted "Freedom, Freedom!" and held photos of citizens and opposition leaders allegedly detained by authorities during the demonstrations.

Eight people were killed in clashes sparked by election authorities' decision to reject a petition seeking a recall vote against Chavez.

"It's not enough that they steal our signatures. They also have to rob Venezuelans of our peace and physical safety," opposition leader Antonio Ledezma said.

Ledezma and other protesters said some detainees were beaten or tortured.

In summing up for anyone who wants the full story behind Chavez's Human Rights violations, I strongly urge you to read this Amnesty International link...

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530052004?open&of=ENG-VEN

There is also a link to USA Today for Chavez's abuses of the Venezuelan native communites...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-10-15-indianschavez_x.htm

Here is also a useful link to CBS news regarding the Inter-American Human Rights Commission's concern at Chavez's Human Rights Violations...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/06/world/main634466.shtml

 

[Andygal]

ARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) -- Venezuela's highest Catholic prelate on Sunday condemned President Hugo Chavez's rule as a dictatorship and urged Venezuelans to reject it. "I am convinced that what we have here is a dictatorship," Cardinal Rosalio Castillo, who is retired, said in a interview published by El Universal newspaper.

He told Venezuelans to use their constitutional right to refuse to recognize the left-wing president on the grounds he was not ruling democratically. Castillo did not elaborate on what actions he thought Venezuelans should take.

The cardinal scoffed at a recent assertion by Chavez that his government was following the teaching of Jesus Christ by spending Venezuela's oil wealth to help the poor. "His goal above all is not to help the poor but to concentrate his power," Castillo said.

The cardinal said Article 350 of Venezuela's 1999 Constitution allowed citizens to refuse to recognize an elected leader if he violated democratic principles or human rights. "That's what should be done -- reject this government," he said.

Sounds like a lot of bigoted screed to me. Sounds like this guy is a religious righty who simply disagrees with Chavez for polticial reasons. There is no proof given of any actual human rights issues. Just this churchy being a typical intolerant bigoted right-wing religious fanatic.

 

[peapod]

I urge everyone to read the following link from amnestry international...over a THOUSAND cases 8O 8O 8O Don't you point any fingers at anyone else nero, you hypocrite! Go get your barrel of oil some where else...


http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-usa/index

 

[Nascar_James]

ARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) -- Venezuela's highest Catholic prelate on Sunday condemned President Hugo Chavez's rule as a dictatorship and urged Venezuelans to reject it. "I am convinced that what we have here is a dictatorship," Cardinal Rosalio Castillo, who is retired, said in a interview published by El Universal newspaper.

He told Venezuelans to use their constitutional right to refuse to recognize the left-wing president on the grounds he was not ruling democratically. Castillo did not elaborate on what actions he thought Venezuelans should take.

The cardinal scoffed at a recent assertion by Chavez that his government was following the teaching of Jesus Christ by spending Venezuela's oil wealth to help the poor. "His goal above all is not to help the poor but to concentrate his power," Castillo said.

The cardinal said Article 350 of Venezuela's 1999 Constitution allowed citizens to refuse to recognize an elected leader if he violated democratic principles or human rights. "That's what should be done -- reject this government," he said.

Sounds like a lot of bigoted screed to me. Sounds like this guy is a religious righty who simply disagrees with Chavez for polticial reasons. There is no proof given of any actual human rights issues. Just this churchy being a typical intolerant bigoted right-wing religious fanatic.

Due to the importance and seriousness of this issue, I've created a new thread with all the proof you want, Andygal. Including condemnation from Amnesty International, the Inter American Human Rights Commission and the United Nations.

The thread is titled "The Real Story Behind Chavez".

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Nero has to point, Peapod. He lacks the intellectual capacity to put together whole sentences, after all.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Intelligence agencies are revealing that US private military contractors, active in Colombia "under various contract umbrellas, including counter-narcotics and counter-insurgency" are building up to yet another attempted coup d'etat against Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez.



Forgotten History

Pentagon Confirms That Unilateral Pre-emptive Strikes Are Now US Policy

Hands Off Venezuela

 

[Andygal]

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

Nascar- since the other thread was locked her is a link to Amnesty RE: US human rights abuses in Gauntano bay.

 

[Reverend Blair]

"This winter a significantly larger number of applicants are expected than last year to request assistance in paying their energy bills, but President Bush has proposed cutting assistance programs from $2.2 billion to $2.0 billion. These programs that assist in paying energy bills are particularly critical for the elderly, disabled, and children."

Bush to try again to overthrow Venezuela

While Bush prevaricates, Venezuela offers help to US poor

The Bush NeoCons don't want a democratic Iraq, or a democratic Venezuela with control over prices of oil, or the ability to specify where the oil is sent, in what quantity and at what price.

 

[Canucklehead]

Bush to try again to overthrow Venezuela

Call me an extremist if you will but if people of this nature were caught in Canada I would be all for the harshest of punishments... ie. toss em on Hans Island with nothing but Anne Murray playing from an offshore buoy! I don't think anyone would argue that the U.S.G. of whatever political stripe would try putting someone attempting to overthrow their gov't to death if they were caught, what's the problem with another country doing the same if they believe in the death penalty? It's a lil something called sovereignty and self preservation. Of all people, ya'd think that right wing extremists would understand the eye-for-an-eye philosophy...or have they moved on to a-torso-for-an-eye? :x

 

[Reverend Blair]

toss em on Hans Island with nothing but Anne Murray playing from an offshore buoy!

I'm against torture though. :wink:

I don't think anyone would argue that the U.S.G. of whatever political stripe would try putting someone attempting to overthrow their gov't to death if they were caught, what's the problem with another country doing the same if they believe in the death penalty?

That baffles me too, especially in the case of Chavez because he is democratically elected and does enjoy huge popular support.

 

[peapod]

Well said canucklehead...but don't ya just wish for the good old aunt jemmia days :? :?

 

[Canucklehead]

toss em on Hans Island with nothing but Anne Murray playing from an offshore buoy!

I'm against torture though. :wink:

:laughing3: :laughing3:

I don't think anyone would argue that the U.S.G. of whatever political stripe would try putting someone attempting to overthrow their gov't to death if they were caught, what's the problem with another country doing the same if they believe in the death penalty?

That baffles me too, especially in the case of Chavez because he is democratically elected and does enjoy huge popular support.

No kidding... it's ok to accept an installed dipshit like Pinoche(sp?) but Chavez is the devil incarnate :roll: You know... all this wouldn't OK but it would be at the very least be remotely tolerable if the USG would just shut the f*ck up when it comes to critisizing ohh EVERY other nation on Earth. :violent3:



edit: rereading this... it didnt come out as intended but i think ya know what i mean

 

[Canucklehead]

Well said canucklehead...but don't ya just wish for the good old aunt jemmia days :? :?

MMMmmmmmm..... Pancakes!!!!!

 

[Nascar_James]

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

Nascar- since the other thread was locked her is a link to Amnesty RE: US human rights abuses in Gauntano bay.

 

[peapod]

Wow! very effective 8O