Changes Needed in Canadian Immigration Policy

[Reverend Blair]

I couldn't agree more. I hear so many people talking about where doctors should be forced to work, where nurses should be forced to work, where tradespeople should be forced to work and where immigrants should be forced to work. If Whitehorse can't compete with Toronto then too bad for Whitehorse. I wouldn't live up north or in a rural community because I don't want to. Why would I force an immigrant to do something Canadians won't?

I'm not sure how many times I've said that nobody would be required to take the free education and that it would be open to Canadians too, but let's just say that's been covered already.

I'm sure that if new immigrants were told from the very start that they would be practically guaranteed employment further North, then many immigrants would choose such a place for residence. I cannot, in good conscience, require a new immigrant to live in a specific area to benefit me. To do so is, in my opinion, greedy and somewhat arrogant.

Again, nobody is being forced to go anywhere. They would be offered an option. An incentive.

so do you think people should be able to sell themselves into slavery as well if they are happy with the conditions and limitations?

People do it all the time. Ever see a young couple when they realise their mortgage is too big or an 18 year old kid that just bought too cool a car? That could easily be construed as slavery too.

People also sign contracts all of the time. That includes contracts to go work in remote areas. If they don't meet the terms of the contract, they have to pay penalties...often ones that they cannot afford.

Do you consider athlete's who sign with a team to be slaves? How about musicians who sign with a label?

 

[the caracal kid]

atheletes, they are going where they want to.
musicians, well, some of them would say they got the dirty end of the stick and end up suing to get out (perhaps costing them everything).

the thing is that the "people do it all the time" agrument really does not fit because people are still free to move if they don't like the house, or sell the car, or whatever. forcing people to live in one locale is a form of imprisonment and forced labour for the benefit of those already there. It creates a two teir citizenship. How would you address the issue of imposing living in location X on a group of people, and then location X declines and all the "free" people start leaving? Now you would have the same natural decline of an area that can not sustain itself AND people YOU forced to be there!

edit:
fiveparadox: general policy should be set federally, but details should be left to the provinces. for example, if ontario needs people of skill X, they should have the freedom to adjust their immigration methods to fill skill X.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Changes Needed in Can

Atheletes often end up where they don't want to be, forced to play. Musicians often end up in multi-record contracts that they have to fulfill. Business people often take transfers to places they don't want to be so they can move up the corporate ladder. Blue collar workers often sign contracts to work in places they don't want to be.

Hell, students often leave school with so much debt that they end up taking jobs they don't like in places they don't want to be.

Nobody is talking about permanent positions, but if somebody gets 1 free year of school in exchange for going and working in Dawson for a year, what's wrong with that? If they don't like it, then they can pay back the money the government invested in them and leave.

You are searching for reasons not to try this, Caracal.

 

[the caracal kid]

no, i am not searching, i have found!

i already said i support the idea of tuition for residency so long as it is coming from local sources.

in all your examples it is not a federal government telling people where they should be, is it? In all your examples it is citizens making decisions, not potential immigrants that may have no idea what they are getting themselves into. Let the free market work, i say. If doomsville needs people let it attract them itself (or with the help of the PROVINCIAL government if it deems necessary).

edit: also, a person from canada or able to visit can go see an area first to see if they would want to live there. an immigrant who has never been to canada may well have no idea what he is in for should he sign an agreement to go live in the tarsands. there is a reason many canadians do not want to live in certian areas and trying to coerce immigrants to go there is just as bad as exploiting laborers in third world countries so we can have cheap goods and maintain our "privilage".

 

[tracy]

I couldn't agree more. I hear so many people talking about where doctors should be forced to work, where nurses should be forced to work, where tradespeople should be forced to work and where immigrants should be forced to work. If Whitehorse can't compete with Toronto then too bad for Whitehorse. I wouldn't live up north or in a rural community because I don't want to. Why would I force an immigrant to do something Canadians won't?

I'm not sure how many times I've said that nobody would be required to take the free education and that it would be open to Canadians too, but let's just say that's been covered already.

Sorry, then I don't know what the debate is. There are programs requiring service in rural or northern communities in exchange for education, they just suck. When I was in BC, they would repay your provincial student loans in exchange for 5 years service in rural or northern communities. Unfortunately since most students' loans are not provincial, it's a shitty deal.

I also notice a lot of those communities that are desperate for staff were pretty picky. Those small communities post jobs for nurses and then add "three years experience in a specialty area required". I know the territories specifically said they wouldn't take new grads when I was at a job fair in Toronto. They actually think that nurses with experience who can go anywhere in the country will pick Whitehorse or Cranbrook? I have little sympathy for them when they create their own problems.

 

[OdinPatrick]

Re: RE: Changes Needed in Canadian Immigration Policy

Interestingly enough, in rural NB, where McCain Foods has their head office, there is a huge population of immigrants, from China and India...and these people are skilled technical and IT people. Our Canadian-born people don't want to live in rural NB, so guess what happens.

I've interviewed about a half dozen trained engineers who have immigrated to NB, and their experience and qualifications would, for the most part, put any grad from any university in Canada to shame.

It's truly a mind-expanding experience, to meet these people.

The problem is not their credentials, it's their ability to speak english, and work with other people.

60% of immigrants do no speak english or french.

and the 40% that do speak english do not necesarily speak fluent english or french.

Some immigrant may have skills, but if they can't talk to customers and co-workers competently in english and or french what good are they?

 

[FiveParadox]

Well, the Provinces have the prerogative to assign themselves "official languages" that are neither French, nor English? And in terms of "what good [they] are," one's "good" to one's country is not entirely dependant on one's language skills (I'm not arguing that they're not important, just not paramount). In my experience in the riding of Newton—North Delta, an electoral district where thirty percent of the population identifies itself as being Indian according to the 2001 census, even though I don't speak Punjabi, we can normally get our points across, even using remedial-level English.

 

[OdinPatrick]

RE: Changes Needed in Can

Yes but If i'm spending money as a consumer or paying employee salaries the most basic rule to service and good business would be communication.
I don't care if the person has a PHD and has an IQ of 150, if he has to repeat himself all the time because he can't learn english, which is on offical language of Canada and a requirement of immigration into Canada then i won't hire him.

When I give orders to an employee I don't want to use remedial english, or assume and hopes he understood me.

 

[FiveParadox]

Don't forget about French! He can speak French, too.
N'oubliez pas du français! Il peut parler en français aussi.