Canadians are a bunch of sheep

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
GOT YOUR ATTENTION?!!!

I don't think that Canadians are a bunch of sheep. But I am sick with our archaic voting system and it constantly baffles me that Canadians and Quebecers are so passive when it comes to the accepting the failure of our voting system to adequately represent the will of the population.

The fact alone that a party like the Bloc Québecois would get more seats then the NDP, a truly federal party, while the latter gets more popular vote should be enough to enrage Canadians whether they identify with the NDP or not.

This little strip adequately explains how I feel about this. Please check it out. After clicking on the link, click on the image to zoom in.

http://i.imgur.com/Z4FvM.jpg

I don't think pure proportional representation should be the way to go, but proportional rep should at least be integrated some way or another.

This is all based on the assumption that we vote for a party and not a candidate. So, do I agree with your proposal for proportional representation?

Yes and no.

Personally, I vote for my candidate, not his party. I also agree though that in an honest system, we should not mislead people into thinking they're voting for the party when in fact they're voting for the candidate. This would mean:

1. Remove party names from ballots,
2. Remove all funding for parties, and
3. Remove all official recognition of parties, meaning that all MPs run as independents, the Prime Minister is elected by the members of the House of Commons, and the only caucus is a Caucus of the House.

Failing that standard, then yes, proportional representation is preferable to a non-partisan voting system disguised as a partisan one as we have now.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
This is not as self-evident as you'd like to think it is. Why should our votes be counted together in a single national poll and not in many smaller community polls?

Because the platform you are casting a vote for is a national platform, in most cases, the Bloc being the most obvious exception. The local candidate is a representative of the platform more often then they are a representative of their constituents. Which is made abundantly clear by that strip, when the majority of that smaller community are not represented by their MP.
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
3
38
Vancouver
I don't think pure proportional representation should be the way to go, but proportional rep should at least be integrated some way or another.

Yes there is a way.

The problem with most proposals for change are that they are either too much of an overhaul of the system, or they end up reproducing the same problem only in a different form, or it involves statistical processes that Joe-Canuck cannot understand; (evidently Joe-Canuck would rather have a broken system he can understand than a working system he can't understand (a textbook example of people getting the government they deserve).

I requires only two relatively simple changes while leaving the vast majority of the existing system untouched, yet those two little changes would have a *huge* effect in terms of making representation in parliament more democratically reflective of the actual demographics of the population.

Basically, you take the Senate, which is already there and which is supposed to be the sober second-sight of Parliament, and make it so it can actually do the job it's supposed to do.

You make it so after each election, the seats in the Senate get redistributed according to popular vote. It means parties like the Greens, which might not get any seats in the Commons, would still get 8-9 seats in the Senate according to popular vote

It means even if someone like Harper gets a majority in the House of Commons with a minority of Canadian support because everyone else is fragmented into too many parties, if he tries to railroad through legislation that the majority of Canadians hate, then their Senators can gang up and block it.

The second change, which is small and easy to do, but which would have a *huge* effect in terms of the effects, would be to drop the provision saying the Senate can only block legislation two times, but must let it pass on the third reading.

The way it is now, if Harper were to push through legislation that even Conservative Senators can't stand, such that they join with the others to stop it, they can only stop it twice.

By making so the Senate doesn't have to pass legislation on third reading, it will actually has some teeth.

Making those changes also meets halfway those who don't like the way Senators can get appointed for life and are "unelected".

If the Senate has to get shaken up with seats in the Senate re-appointed every election, no Senator has his seat as a de-facto paid-retirement chair, and his seat there is going to be a function of popular vote.

That's all you have to do. Make it so Sentator seats get appointed as a percentage of popular vote after each election, and make it so Senators don't have to pass a bill after third reading if the majority of them don't like it.
 
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GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
2,717
10
38
www.myspace.com
Damned All those Zombie SlaveDrones!...and Dictator Capitalists!!!..Damned them all t.( What's that?..This is the People are Sheeple Thread..Oh .) .

Sorry Wrong thread. Excuse me..Please Except My humblest Apology..



Damned Zombie Slave Drone Sheeples! ..Wake up and realize no matter what !..Big Gov/Big Biz/Big Bro ..Always Wins...

Now Go Back to Work and pay off all your debts . !
( There, How's that?):)
--------------------------------------------------------------

It's Governemental Insanity... I tell ya ...
Democrazy!.. ...
 
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