Chewy I am not sure the handful of americans and their goverment are making their agression out of fear. I think they just make it look like fear, but its really about ecomonics, money, greed. Like the demoracy rant. Hide a bad motive under a good one. The true motive being they want to control the oil world, but they say their motives are for freedom. I am sorry, but I do not believe them, just their record speaks for itself. These are not the same kind of people that went to war in world war two. Those people actually did go for freedom.
Canadians against Bush’s re-election petition
- Thread starter Chewy
- Start date
Yes but they are afraid and condone the actions in Iraq on the bases of fear.peapod said:
I agree I suspect Iraq is not about liberty but about real estate.peapod said:
The US has a very bloody history. It had always bothered me with whole WMD issue came up as they are the only Nation to have used WMD's in warfare.peapod said:
This a good wesite I little over the top but some good stuff in it on the history of the US and the aggressiveness of that nation. http://americanpeace.eccmei.net/
Ah, to be young and free. I'm about ten years older than you, Isengard. I had the displeasure of growing up under the Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney triumvirate. I only know a couple of true anti-Americans and they trouble me because I see them as playing playing the same zero-sum game as Bush and his pals...just from the other side.
Chewy...I don't know what to tell you about the US. I look at it's consititution as being right up there with the Magna Carta. I still see it, or something modelled after it, as humanity's best shot at moving forward.
At the same time I see the present course of the US as being nothing but destructive towards democracy. The erosion of civil rights and the disregard for human rights all in the name of money offends me deeply. The complete disregard for human life makes me want to puke.
Which brings me to Peapod. I didn't post at the CBC a lot, Peapod. I did a fair bit of lurking though, and I know a few people. As far as I know the place was shut down when very personal and violent threats against a young lady were made in the forum about GM crops. Things had obviously gone too far.
I do not paint the whole of the US with one brush and discourage others from doing the same. I see the seething dissension in the United States and I see hope. That being said though, I do think it is incredibly important to speak out against the action of the US government as much as possible.I think they just make it look like fear, but its really about ecomonics, money, greed.
too true..
We have to get over this whole America vs. everybody else thing. It is really George Bush's Amerika vs. everybody else and that everybody else includes much of the United States.
The last thing I would like to do is be seen as promoting hate of a nation or its inhabitants. I am simply not found of the current leader and highly apposed to Bush’s War. 40 years ago there was another War there are some similarities but there are many differences. Viet Nam was non-productive for everyone sake. I see some ominous clouds on the horizon for the US; the operation Blue to Green is on of them.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5406219/site/newsweek/
Now they have begun with the Sailors.
http://www.wvec.com/sharedcontent/nationworld/nation/081204ccktnatArmyNavy.701e246d.html
Things are picking up not settling down.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5406219/site/newsweek/
Now they have begun with the Sailors.
http://www.wvec.com/sharedcontent/nationworld/nation/081204ccktnatArmyNavy.701e246d.html
Things are picking up not settling down.
Chewy,
I don't think anyone is thinking you promote hate. We are all just asking questions here, trying to make sense of all the information that we are bombarded with everyday. One thing I noticed, was that there are lots of posts regarding america and americans, and prothemus is an american, yet he never posted on some of these topics, its interesting to get an american view on what is going on.
Its still dark on here on the coast, I am desperate to go fishing, got to practice for the big fishing derby next weekend, my hometowns annual fishing derby
I am so desperate to practice I am setting off in the dark with my brother, I think I will ruin his day by talking politics to him :lol:
I don't think anyone is thinking you promote hate. We are all just asking questions here, trying to make sense of all the information that we are bombarded with everyday. One thing I noticed, was that there are lots of posts regarding america and americans, and prothemus is an american, yet he never posted on some of these topics, its interesting to get an american view on what is going on.
Its still dark on here on the coast, I am desperate to go fishing, got to practice for the big fishing derby next weekend, my hometowns annual fishing derby
I am so desperate to practice I am setting off in the dark with my brother, I think I will ruin his day by talking politics to him :lol:Revrend,
I wondered why the CBC board was shut down, I never read the article in the national post, but some of the things that were said there were really way over the top and very ugly. This is what I was told in regards to why it was shut down.
"It looks as if CBC may have discontinued its forums. The forum page no longer comes up, and the news articles no longer have links inviting one to "discuss this and other stories". On the other hand, the CBC home page still has a (non-functioning) link to message boards.
It seems as if the National Post article posted elsewhere on this board did its damage, and the acrimonious fallout from that may have doomed the Board. This article concerned CBC's filtering of the words "Jew" and "Israel" from discussions. There were a clique of people on CBC Boards who seemed to have little in life other than their approval from other cyber-friends, and the ability to issue fancy-free insults at other posters and the world on the taxpayers' dime."
I wondered why the CBC board was shut down, I never read the article in the national post, but some of the things that were said there were really way over the top and very ugly. This is what I was told in regards to why it was shut down.
"It looks as if CBC may have discontinued its forums. The forum page no longer comes up, and the news articles no longer have links inviting one to "discuss this and other stories". On the other hand, the CBC home page still has a (non-functioning) link to message boards.
It seems as if the National Post article posted elsewhere on this board did its damage, and the acrimonious fallout from that may have doomed the Board. This article concerned CBC's filtering of the words "Jew" and "Israel" from discussions. There were a clique of people on CBC Boards who seemed to have little in life other than their approval from other cyber-friends, and the ability to issue fancy-free insults at other posters and the world on the taxpayers' dime."
Politics in a capitalistic democracy is a tough business. You are battling two forces that need to be balanced - capitalism (the reason we are what we are), and democracy (the ability to chose what we want, as a majority - although debateable at times).
Our capitalistic requirements, and needs, govern our actions to the greater extent. Our democratic and "help thy neighbour" elements are in constant conflict with our financial goals. Hard balancing act.
Canadians are loved just about anywhere in the world. We are tolerant, slow to act in any agressive manner, and overly seek compromise before use of force. The US is more known for "shotting from the hip - John Wayne style", but is still the emigration country of choice. So obviously the way of life is desireable.
US "Americans", or Canadian "Americans", we are very similar as a people. Our government structures are what is different. US governments are very military driven to accomplish the financial goals desired by large corporations. Patience is not a virtue with stock/share holders. The wars and battles are always "over there" and "out of sight, out of mind" in regards to destruction and loss of life. Sure, we get to see it, quite often "live", but it is like watching a video game or a movie.
The UN is a farce, and should be disbanded and reformed/rebuilt, with more authority to act as soon as required. We are becoming more and more a global community, and need to have a central legal authority to act on behalf of the people, our fellow citizens of the world.
No despot, or tyranical political leader should be allowed to progress to the point of "war is required to correct the situation". That is so uncivilized and barbaric.
The Middle East is another story altogether. Thugs, hoodlums, and uncontrollable gangsters, rule and intimidate to the point of an almost unfixable situation. Not an easy fix to that problem area. The US "blast 'em till they are gone" strategy was not the way to go. They created the monster, as they did Iran and Afghanistan, and now have to face fixing it up - but can they? Are we looking at another temporary fix?
To answer this thread - I'm against Bush's re-election. The alternative, Kerry, well, toss a coin and hope for the best.
Our capitalistic requirements, and needs, govern our actions to the greater extent. Our democratic and "help thy neighbour" elements are in constant conflict with our financial goals. Hard balancing act.
Canadians are loved just about anywhere in the world. We are tolerant, slow to act in any agressive manner, and overly seek compromise before use of force. The US is more known for "shotting from the hip - John Wayne style", but is still the emigration country of choice. So obviously the way of life is desireable.
US "Americans", or Canadian "Americans", we are very similar as a people. Our government structures are what is different. US governments are very military driven to accomplish the financial goals desired by large corporations. Patience is not a virtue with stock/share holders. The wars and battles are always "over there" and "out of sight, out of mind" in regards to destruction and loss of life. Sure, we get to see it, quite often "live", but it is like watching a video game or a movie.
The UN is a farce, and should be disbanded and reformed/rebuilt, with more authority to act as soon as required. We are becoming more and more a global community, and need to have a central legal authority to act on behalf of the people, our fellow citizens of the world.
No despot, or tyranical political leader should be allowed to progress to the point of "war is required to correct the situation". That is so uncivilized and barbaric.
The Middle East is another story altogether. Thugs, hoodlums, and uncontrollable gangsters, rule and intimidate to the point of an almost unfixable situation. Not an easy fix to that problem area. The US "blast 'em till they are gone" strategy was not the way to go. They created the monster, as they did Iran and Afghanistan, and now have to face fixing it up - but can they? Are we looking at another temporary fix?
To answer this thread - I'm against Bush's re-election. The alternative, Kerry, well, toss a coin and hope for the best.
In dialoging with my US counterparts they simply have no use for the UN either, they feel that UN did not do its job in attacking Iraq when they asked them too. They also state that they as a country are absolved from the directions and the rulings of the UN, they are separate sovereign Nation that will not be ruled or governed by another body. Many of them are bitter about they believe their Nation contributes far too much to the UN in comparison to other nations. IMO the UN or any other international body will have no impact until the US will allow it to have some teeth. I don’t see that coming to bear as it will level the playing field, not completely but it will empower smaller and weaker nations. The US will not stand for that.bogie said:
That is a real Chewy...the Bush administration feels that the UN should be an instrument of US foreign policy even while the US pretends to be above international laws and conventions it has signed.
Personally I think that if the UN is disbanded that a similar agency will not re-form in the near future. I also think that it is is possible to rebuild the UN from within and that Paul Martin is an idiot for not working towards that despite Kofi Annan's clear invitation to do so.
What the UN needs most at this point is its own military force. That force should be equipped to deal with crisis situations like Sudan or Rwanda and should be under the command of a leader from a middle power with a record of peace-keeping and maintaining the standards of human rights as expressed by the UN.
The force should be equipped and trained for peace-keeping and peace-making and it should be made explicitly clear that any attack on UN forces is a declaration of war against all member states. In other words if the US wanted to attack Iraq and UN troops moved in and said no, to disobey them would have been a declaration of war against the entire world.
The other thing the UN needs is a steady supply of civilians to carry out humanitarian projects. This should be supplied by individual nations much the way peace-keeping forces are now. Each country could supply people based on the needs of the project and the expertise of their people.
Something vital to all of this being successful is the removal of the Security Council members vetoes, possibly the entire Security Council. The SC is made up of a bunch of permanent members with a history of imperialism and agendas of their own. They aren't trusted by other UN members or each other.
Personally I think that if the UN is disbanded that a similar agency will not re-form in the near future. I also think that it is is possible to rebuild the UN from within and that Paul Martin is an idiot for not working towards that despite Kofi Annan's clear invitation to do so.
What the UN needs most at this point is its own military force. That force should be equipped to deal with crisis situations like Sudan or Rwanda and should be under the command of a leader from a middle power with a record of peace-keeping and maintaining the standards of human rights as expressed by the UN.
The force should be equipped and trained for peace-keeping and peace-making and it should be made explicitly clear that any attack on UN forces is a declaration of war against all member states. In other words if the US wanted to attack Iraq and UN troops moved in and said no, to disobey them would have been a declaration of war against the entire world.
The other thing the UN needs is a steady supply of civilians to carry out humanitarian projects. This should be supplied by individual nations much the way peace-keeping forces are now. Each country could supply people based on the needs of the project and the expertise of their people.
Something vital to all of this being successful is the removal of the Security Council members vetoes, possibly the entire Security Council. The SC is made up of a bunch of permanent members with a history of imperialism and agendas of their own. They aren't trusted by other UN members or each other.
i think the UN should house a super death ray or something that if there orders are not met then the people who do not obey are destroyed....its as simple as that..
I never said it would be easy, but if a consensus is slowly built (something that is happening anyway) even the permanent members of the Security Council will have to accede that their power is no longer valid.
The funny thing is that at some point most of them have recognised that the other permanent member's powers should no longer be valid, but none of them have looked in the mirror and asked the same questions about their own power.
The UN does accomplish a lot though. Their biggest failures are in stopping armed conflicts and, since those are on the news every night, we see those failures all the time. The thing is that by the time the shooting starts everyone involved has already failed and the UN's attempts to step in after are a pretty tall order. Having a permanent force not dependent on the whims of individual governments would allow the UN to step in quickly, hopefully beforethe war got going.
The funny thing is that at some point most of them have recognised that the other permanent member's powers should no longer be valid, but none of them have looked in the mirror and asked the same questions about their own power.
The UN does accomplish a lot though. Their biggest failures are in stopping armed conflicts and, since those are on the news every night, we see those failures all the time. The thing is that by the time the shooting starts everyone involved has already failed and the UN's attempts to step in after are a pretty tall order. Having a permanent force not dependent on the whims of individual governments would allow the UN to step in quickly, hopefully beforethe war got going.
What the UN needs most at this point is its own military force. That force should be equipped to deal with crisis situations like Sudan or Rwanda and should be under the command of a leader from a middle power with a record of peace-keeping and maintaining the standards of human rights as expressed by the UN.
Something vital to all of this being successful is the removal of the Security Council members vetoes, possibly the entire Security Council.
Your comments put a smile on my face. It is good to know that someone else has the same thoughts as I do. Perhaps my ideas aren't so far out in left field afterall.
Something vital to all of this being successful is the removal of the Security Council members vetoes, possibly the entire Security Council.
Your comments put a smile on my face. It is good to know that someone else has the same thoughts as I do. Perhaps my ideas aren't so far out in left field afterall.
passpatoo,
From Algoma? what part? my grandmother lived in Blind River? Nice country algoma! Welcome to the borg...oh I mean board :lol:
From Algoma? what part? my grandmother lived in Blind River? Nice country algoma! Welcome to the borg...oh I mean board :lol:
I was just reading a similar thread on a different web site and found that there's a lot of "mind your own business, the U.S. isn't YOUR country" type of stuff. It's okay to say that if said country wasn't constantly create havoc in many parts of the world. That said, it effects us all when the representative of the most powerful country of the world is using his power for personal gain.
Let me reiterate to people who take interest in these topics (and I know there's a lot of people browsing these forums anonymously), put your name on the web site and we might, collectively, be able to convince some voters down south to GET RID OF BUSH. It's in their interest and it's in the world's interest.
Let me reiterate to people who take interest in these topics (and I know there's a lot of people browsing these forums anonymously), put your name on the web site and we might, collectively, be able to convince some voters down south to GET RID OF BUSH. It's in their interest and it's in the world's interest.
The US may not be our country, but the second their policies have an effect outside of their borders we have every right to criticise and suggest that the policies need to be changed.
It's funny, but Cellucci never hesitates to criticise us on everything...whether it is military policy or pot laws or same sex marriage, the man has spoken out publicly, as a representative of the Bush administration. We aren't supposed to talk about the US though, no matter what they do.
It's funny, but Cellucci never hesitates to criticise us on everything...whether it is military policy or pot laws or same sex marriage, the man has spoken out publicly, as a representative of the Bush administration. We aren't supposed to talk about the US though, no matter what they do.
Personally I find criticism valuable; it’s a great check and balance of how well things are working. My rebuttal has always been from those in the US telling me to mind my own business it doesn’t concern my country has been to point out their countries lack of using that tactic themselves. As well as an allies we have a responsibility to let out friends know when they have a booger hanging out or spinach on their teeth. It’s our way of looking out for them, I’d expect the same from them.