Canadian Idol Fans Watching American Idol

SleepinIn

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There are probably many people who don't even know Kris has a band and think of him as an acoustic performer of limited appeal. This doesn't really help that.

I know, I know...wait and then complain. lol

LOL - yes wait. But I do agree with you. I love Kris and Cale playing acoustic - but I think the band brings something extra too (it's SUCH a good band and they have great chemistry and you're right people don't know that!). So yeah. We're on the same page.
It's funny, I forgot you guys also celebrated the holiday. But, from what I've heard, your Remembrance Day (and England's) is closer in spirit to our Memorial Day (in May).

Yes, I think you're right - it's more like Memorial Day. A cenotaph is a war memorial - and they have a veteran's parade then a service at the cenotaph on Remembrance Day. Specifically at 11:00 am on November 11:00 - there is 2 minutes of silence, and then a laying of wreaths from community groups and organizations etc. It's been a few years since I've gone so I'm glad I went today.
 

ross 1

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Dec 21, 2008
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LOL - yes wait. But I do agree with you. I love Kris and Cale playing acoustic - but I think the band brings something extra too (it's SUCH a good band and they have great chemistry and you're right people don't know that!). So yeah. We're on the same page.

So this begs the question - why do you think they're not using the band? I guess I could have asked this before, when they did the other concerts without the band, huh? Wasn't it Kris's appearance with Cale in SF that caused Lifehouse to take notice? (Or was he with the band that time?) Also, that big show he did (outdoors) in Las Vegas was just with Cale, and was a hit, I think.

Thanks for the definition - I never heard that word before. Glad you were able to take advantage of the good weather and do something memorable.
 

SleepinIn

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ross 1

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Jon Dore! lol! (I just thought of something - since Kalan is a huge Conan fan, he probably saw this.)

Thanks for the link to that photographer's comments. Awesome words.

As for Kris and Cale, of course I'm conveniently forgetting that prior to last summer, Kris and Cale were alone for a lot of Kris's gigs. I was just wondering about the big shows, I guess. I'd the band to be there for those (if any). There are various sizes for Christmas concerts. Also, he didn't say all the gigs would be him and Cale, just "most."

Why they use the band, or don't use the band, and in what way (for ex., I saw the one of the few semi-acoutic sets by the full band - maybe the only one?) -- isn't anything I can figure out.

Btw, they are really rushing out Lee's video, huh?

And where is Kris's video...? And what is up with that song? It's making me kinda sick at heart. Though I guess we've been pleasantly surprised before. Plus, did you see the Q&A with Kris about ads for AWM above? He seemed clueless, but you never know with him. I don't know why they never announce anything or let out any info.

http://twitpic.com/367tqe

Last summer he did a m&g for the station.

http://www.star1025.com/Kris-Allen---Meet---Greet/7908927
 
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SleepinIn

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And where is Kris's video...? And what is up with that song? It's making me kinda sick at heart. Though I guess we've been pleasantly surprised before.

RCA in general seems to work a lot faster with videos than Jive does (if that's who's moving the videos - Adam's were always out fast weren't they? Jive's seem to take forever and a day)

Did you see the Q&A with Kris about ads for AWM? He seemed clueless (even about what ads are).

Kris IS clueless. LMAO. I think we need to talk to Cale about this kind of stuff. :) I do think Kris knows, but I don't think it interests him all that much. He's not much of a marketer our Kris.
 

ross 1

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Dec 21, 2008
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I wonder...I think it's more like Kris never seems to know what he's supposed to talk about and not talk about. He sometimes sounds like he's afraid to say something he shouldn't. Or maybe he's clueless.
 
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SleepinIn

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You mean I actually saw something first? lol

Hey now... LOL

That one's cool too! He's very enthusiastic.. I like it. Ah, The Examiner no bias whatsoever in their reporting ever. ;) But I still like it.
 

ross 1

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Yeah, I just went through that at MJ's, about examiner.com. I know it's hard to take anything from that site seriously (and I rarely do). But I thought this was not a fan review. The guy has done numerous reviews. When you see all he's reviewed and his credentials, I think you can honestly say it was just his impressions and not a bunch of fan BS like a lot of those examiner things. Check it out.

St. Louis concert photography Examiner - Arts & Exhibits | Examiner.com

ETA: I posted this on another forum, and I'm bringing it here for your dining and dancing pleasure...

Since we're talking Brian Melo, here's a bit of a video interview with him from andPOP.

And a print interview with one of my old faves, Mitch MacDonald. (ETA: He'll be playing the Plaza Restaurant and Lounge, in Kenora, Ontario. Bring your dancing shoes. Well, that's what is says here.)

ETA: I don't know how pitchy Mitchy is when he's not on CI. Sometimes people are better off the show. I remember a talk show he was on with the Top 10 where they all sang and he actually sounded the best.

But in my opinion he should study voice a bit, which would help him a lot with staying on key. Do you think this helps? I really like Mitch, something about him suggests to me he has the real connection to music that is important - and I love his taste. Also, I just like laid-back people like him.
 
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SleepinIn

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The Examiner article comes across like he's trying to do an actual review which is good, and the writing is pretty good (which is nice for a change in the Examiner) but it's still got that hard to deny "fan" point of view. Which I guess all reviews do to an extent... and especially all reviews from the Examiner. So yeah. I liked it, but I'm such a realist.. so to me it seems like he's overly enthused, lol. I don't know.. I like good reviews though.

It's nice to start seeing more press with Brian. \o/

Mitch had great taste in music, I think that's one of the things I liked best about him. Also I saw him on youtube play somewhere post idol and he had a really good connection to his audience so I agree. That's hard to fake with any entertainer, and is probably just as important as hitting all the notes. (although hitting all the notes is really not a bad thing to be honest.. lol)

His voice wasn't my favourite, but I think he would put on a really good show. He's a very charming guy - I'd enjoy seeing him I think.
 

ross 1

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The Examiner article comes across like he's trying to do an actual review which is good, and the writing is pretty good (which is nice for a change in the Examiner) but it's still got that hard to deny "fan" point of view. Which I guess all reviews do to an extent... and especially all reviews from the Examiner. So yeah. I liked it, but I'm such a realist.. so to me it seems like he's overly enthused, lol. I don't know.. I like good reviews though.

You saw my link to all the other numerous concert reviews this guy has done on that site, right? This is why I didn't think he went on there just to write a fan review for Kris. IDK, whatever. I didn't see it as anything other than one of a long series of rock concert reviews he does (and he photographes them all, as well). I actually don't think he's a particular Kris fan. In fact judging from his previous reviews he seems to have more of a taste for rock.

Interesting what he said about Lifehouse being loud and rocking.They were. It was similar to when I saw Switchfoot. Now here I may be wrong, but I considered Switchfoot a somewhat soft-rock or alt-rock band, as well. But in concert, holy crap, they blew the roof off the place. And they were real showmen.

Brian Melo: I like him a lot and I want him to succeed. I'm just wondering what he could do to stand out. He has a good-to-great voice and he's a nice guy, good-looking and charismatic. I was surprised he didn't take off, bigger, after he won. He doesn't really have the fans. I know he had them after Idol but he didn't keep them, really. His music hits me as a little bland. If you were to advise him, what advide would you give him? (Other than: take off your hat. Although that probably would be good advice.)

I liked Mitch's voice, back then, but when I went to listen to some of his old CI performances a while ago, some were indeed kind of odd-sounding. Others, I really loved. I would love to see him perform with a band, though. Mitch is easy to relate to and I think he has some star quality.

By the way - speaking of Season 6 - every time I hear Chris Daughtry I think about these words of Anne Murray (to Drew Wright) about bending notes. Chris does this constantly and it makes me a little crazy. Like, I want to tear the radio out of the dashboard.

 
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SleepinIn

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Interesting what he said about Lifehouse being loud and rocking.They were. It was similar to when I saw Switchfoot. Now here I may be wrong, but I considered Switchfoot a somewhat soft-rock or alt-rock band, as well. But in concert, holy crap, they blew the roof off the place. And they were real showmen.

I don't really know Switchfoot all that well. But, yeah when I've heard anything about them - it's that they're great live. Lifehouse I actually knew more of their music than I thought I did. LOL Forgot how many good songs they have.

Brian Melo: I like him a lot and I want him to succeed. I'm just wondering what he could do to stand out. He has a good-to-great voice and he's a nice guy, good-looking and charismatic. I was surprised he didn't take off, bigger, after he won. He doesn't really have the fans. I know he had them after Idol but he didn't keep them, really. His music hits me as a little bland. If you were to advise him, what advide would you give him? (Other than: take off your hat. Although that probably would be good advice.)

Brian doesn't have a big profile even here. IMHO He needs press, and this is something Kris needs to do too. They just have to get their name out there. Whether it's radio shows, fundraisers or just plain networking with media and other artists. When you think of Canadian acts that have done well on Much Music for example - they really market themselves hard. You can't leave it up to the label. So for both of them I think they need more killer instinct in regards to the hard sell. I'd be crap at it too.

Anne Murray was a really good mentor, she had solid advice for them all as I remember. I wonder how the mentoring will work on Idol this year? They're using a record label person right? And others? They need an Anne.
 

ross 1

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Brian doesn't have a big profile even here. IMHO He needs press, and this is something Kris needs to do too. They just have to get their name out there. Whether it's radio shows, fundraisers or just plain networking with media and other artists. When you think of Canadian acts that have done well on Much Music for example - they really market themselves hard. You can't leave it up to the label. So for both of them I think they need more killer instinct in regards to the hard sell. I'd be crap at it too.

I'm kind of shocked you don't think Kris has marketed himself hard. I don't know what else he could do. He's not going to bare his ass to get attention like Jacob Hoggard, or be an attention wh*re like Adam. But he's criss crossed the country marketing himself nonstop since he started this thing. If you expect him to change his personality, he can't. He'll neverhave killer instincts. But then I think he's doing fine just as he is. Maybe in Canada it seems like he has no presence. I just saw him on tour so I guess it's really a different perspective.

And I can't see the comparison to Brian Melo at all. Brian has no radio presence, he's not in demand, not touring, and he has something like 680 followers on twitter, while Kris has something like 222,800 followers, is on the radio, is touring, is in demand.
 
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SleepinIn

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If you expect him to change his personality, he can't. He'll neverhave killer instincts. But then I think he's doing fine just as he is. Maybe in Canada it seems like he has no presence. I just saw him on tour so I guess it's really a different perspective.

Hmm, maybe there is a difference in perspective? (because there is really zero sign of him up here) I don't expect him to change his personality (which is crazy because it wouldn't happen - and I wouldn't want him to anyway) but there are things he could be doing. Simple little things, mentioning the venue by name if he asks who's coming to the show, or if he's visiting a radio station.. mentioning the station. I don't know, I'm no expert either. I don't want him to just do promotional tweets.. because that's boring. Even if the Band did it from their account instead of Kris doing it.. ? I just want him to get airplay up here, and elsewhere and build on the success he has had.

And Kris is certainly better at it than Brian. I don't know why Brian lost ground, he did get radio play, but it all trickled away.

And absolutely that tweet from the Lifehouse fan is the real beauty of the opening gigs he's been doing.
 

ross 1

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Hmm, maybe there is a difference in perspective? (because there is really zero sign of him up here)

I think there is a difference. Not that he's household name. But you can't judge his popularity from MJ's blog, either. If you went to the last concert I went to and felt the excitement when he came out (only the opener, after all), the response to him, and the number of people waiting for him later or buying his merch - it obviously wasn't the Beatles, or anything, but it's not like he's got no recognition factor. He's more like (to me, anyway) somebody who can really take off big if he keeps pleasing people on that same level and keeps working and getting the right opportunities. I would say most people seem very impressed with him as a talent.

In terms of tweets. Yes, he could do that. Otherwise, there are only so many hours in a day. I think he works his butt off, mainly presenting his music but also interviews and promotional stuff. He's so laid back on the surface I think he may make it look careless or easygoing. Well, anyway, I agree with you about tweeting the name of the venue, etc. - but I don't think he uses twitter for that - so if he has a manager, the manager or some intern should be doing that. Or he should ask some friend or family member to do it.

I know he believes strongly in the advice he got in the AI 'star school' about just being oneself. I know he knows that's why he won, and why he's gotten anything he's gotten since then. I think if he started to deviate from that he'd be lost, and I think he'd lose his fans. So I think we have to accept that warts and all that's who he is and if it loses him publicity and even money, so be it, that's it. He's got to be that way.

I think twitter is an okay way to give out info, but to tell the truth I know surprisingly few people who are on twitter, anyway. I work with two kids - one 17, one 19, they aren't on twitter. Neither are any of the adults I work with. Of my friends, only three or four are. Maybe we overestimate the importance of it, in publicizing anything. After all, you have to be on twitter, following the person, be in the area where the show is, be logged in at the right time to notice the tweet. Sometimes I think it's kind of useless.

About what the artist can do, alone. If you take the situation where Adam is getting publicity in Canada and Kris isn't (and Adam is getting more here, too - or so I'm told - I'm not sure where, I never see it) - - this is really not due to any special effort on Adam's part. It's much more due to who's managing him and what they're doing to get him airplay. He created his persona on Idol, which creates its own buzz, but since then, I feel a lot of money and effort has been spent getting him recognition and it wasn't anything he had to do himself. All of it (except performing, and the occasional attention getting stunt) has been done for him. I'm not taking away credit from him for attracting audeinces himself. I don't mean it that way. I mean he got a big push, and he's still getting it. Don't forget he was given the closing spot on the AMAs. And was the only ex-contestant ever to mentor on the show and he did it less than a year after his season ended. A show that's seen in over 200 countries, by millions of people. Huge stars complete to perform on the show in hopes of getting publicity for their singles, and this non-star was given the whole show in one of the Top 10 weeks to showcase himself and his single.
There's very little Adam has done, or can do, without that big machine behind him.

And there's very little Kris can do alone. It's big, corporate stuff. I just basically refuse to blame Kris, himself, when we all know he's gotten shafted in that regard and a lot of it has been more like shoveling **** against the tide. And still he's managed to get a great deal of positive recognition for his obvious talent, personality, and attractiveness. But how much more could he have benefitted had he not been treated like a mistake.

As for Brian, I think he's talented but I don't think winning Canadian Idol has ever meant much. Unlike the AI winner, the CI winner never has had international exposure. CI is even unknown in the USA. AI is seen everywhere so the exposure is tremendous. Plus, there is not a lot of effort made to turn the CI winner into a recording star, it seems.

Most of these kids are virgins when it comes to the record business and they all (Canadian and American Idols, and all newcomers, anywhere) have got to put themselves in the hands of the label and the management. Then eventually they do learn the business, but no way do they learn it in six months or one year.

If you look at how Hedley was developed, I saw the fine hand of publicists or managers or the label in everything they did. I really doubt they thought a lot of it up themselves. They were completely marketed. They also happened to be spontaneous, funny, attractive showmen and musicians. But they were pushed very hard. They had to work hard, but the game plan was probably out of their hands, at first. They relied on good management.

Of course I'm talking out of my ass, here, because I have no idea. It just seems obvious, but I'm sure I'm wrong about a lot of it.
 
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SleepinIn

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I know he believes strongly in the advice he got in the AI 'star school' about just being oneself. I know he knows that's why he won, and why he's gotten anything he's gotten since then. I think if he started to deviate from that he'd be lost, and I think he'd lose his fans. So I think we have to accept that warts and all that's who he is and if it loses him publicity and even money, so be it, that's it. He's got to be that way.

True. I don't expect him to change and I'd even be disappointed if he did. LOL I like the guy. Like honest to god like him and I respect his music choices, and he just never disappoints me musically.

Maybe we overestimate the importance of it, in publicizing anything. After all, you have to be on twitter, following the person, be in the area where the show is, be logged in at the right time to notice the tweet. Sometimes I think it's kind of useless.

When you think about it he has like 5x as many facebook followers and his twitter and Facebook pages are sort of linked. But still even that is only going to hit a certain segment of his fanbase. But it's still worth putting it out there. And of my friends there are VERY few on twitter and then of them.. even less who pay attention or actually tweet. So you're right it's a cross section of the fanbase.

Don't forget he was given the closing spot on the AMAs. And was the only ex-contestant ever to mentor on the show and he did it less than a year after his season ended. A show that's seen in over 200 countries, by millions of people. Huge stars complete to perform on the show in hopes of getting publicity for their singles, and this non-star was given they whole show to showcase him and his single.

It was odd then and it's still odd, the whole media extravaganza re: Adam.

And there's very little Kris can do alone. It's big, corporate stuff. I just basically refuse to blame Kris, himself, when we all know he's gotten shafted in that regard and a lot of it has been more like shoveling **** against the tide. And still he's managed to get a great deal of positive recognition for his obvious talent, personality, and attractiveness. But how much more could he have benefitted had he not been treated like an error.

I don't blame Kris at all, I mostly blame the show itself if I'm blaming anyone. :) But they're making a tv show they don't really care about the music careers of contestants on their tv show. Which is a mistake. They should support their own.

Most of these kids are virgins when it comes to the record business and they all (Canadian and American Idols, and all newcomers, anywhere) have got to put themselves in the hands of the label and the management. Then eventually they do learn the business, but no way do they learn it in six months or one year.

THIS. And truly it's always hard work. No matter where you are in your career, or WHO you are.

If you look at how Hedley was developed, I saw the fine hand of publicists or managers or the label in everything they did. I really doubt they thought a lot of it up themselves. They were completely marketed. They also happened to be spontaneous, funny, attractive showmen and musicians. But they were pushed very hard. They had to work hard, but the game plan was probably out of their hands, at first. They relied on good management.

Of course I'm talking out of my ass, here, because I have no idea. It just seems obvious, but I'm sure I'm wrong about a lot of it.

No seems on the money to me too. Like look at the whole Hedley thing. The Hedley Jacob was in when he was in Idol is not the Hedley that exists today. That was always kind of glossed over. They talk about it now, but they didn't really when they were starting out.

Plus, there is not a lot of effort made to turn the CI winner into a recording star, it seems.

They didn't really even try. No tour for the top ten, no big media push - plus yeah it's Canada no one else in the world is watching it (except you a few years later.. lol) :)
 

ross 1

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No seems on the money to me too. Like look at the whole Hedley thing. The Hedley Jacob was in when he was in Idol is not the Hedley that exists today. That was always kind of glossed over. They talk about it now, but they didn't really when they were starting out.

There was even one time when Hedley was briefly signed to Capitol records in the USA (back around 2007, I guess) when Capitol was pushing the story that Jacob had quit Canadian Idol when he got to #3. This was actually in the US press release. I'm not sure whether it was to prove he was too cool for CI or because people would think he sucked if he couldn't even win CI. But it was a lie and he had to go along with it for a while. This also gives you an idea of how much we know down here about what happens in Canada. You can basically tell us anything, because we have no clue.

But yeah, mostly everything with Hedley was always halfway fabricated. Like, I've seen Dave Rosin telling the story of how the band got its name from a town in BC, as if it happened to him and the current band - when of course it was the other Hedley that had that experience. And other times I've heard him talk about how it was the name of the previous band and they just took the previous band's name. Their stories have changed so much over time. Nowadays, they seem to be more or less telling the truth, but no one ever calls them on the fact that they told other stories before.

This is actually what fascinated me when I first 'discovered' that they and Jacob existed. I was trying to find out about him, and them, and it was not long before I realized that it wasn't going to be easy - because they were always contradicting themselves.

And did you ever stop and think how Jacob is such a goof for the media, and then his blog is so serious and so encoded - it's like a different person.

I was thinking of stuff like arriving at the MMVAs in a police wagon, with busty woman cops handcuffing them, and them baring their asses that were tattooed with the band name. These guys were/are shameless self-promoters. I have rarely seen anybody as hungry as Jacob, but that itself is part of his appeal, somehow. If Jacob had ever had the platform Adam has had, he'd now be the biggest star on earth.

It was odd then and it's still odd, the whole media extravaganza re: Adam.

Well, you never know who he's ****ing.
 
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ross 1

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Okay, kidding.

But "media attention" (such as AMAs and Rolling Stone covers) is pretty obviously accomplished by calling in favors or promising favors in return, etc. AI is a big boost so if the label and the management think someone is a potential superstar and big moneymaker, why wouldn't they pull out all the stops to promote the person? It's not really the media promoting the person, in my opinion. It's the media being fed the person. Sometimes they bite, and start promoting the person without any further prodding, sometimes they don't. It's not too much different from radio stations playing music.

Years ago Matthew McConaghay was on the cover (I think) of Vanity Fair with the title "A Star Is Born". Yet he wasn't a star and he didn't especially become a huge star, at the time- or later, come to think of it, though he's popular). There was even a backlash against him because he so obviously was a nobody being declared a new star for no reason.

A Star Is Born--Before He's Even Been Seen - Los Angeles Times

The publicity overkill is mentioned here:

A TIME TO THRILL : AS MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY HITS SCREENS AS A LEADING MAN, HOLLYWOOD HAILS A NEW STAR. - Free Online Library

It's not really the same thing as what we were talking about, but I remembered it now because it seemed to me at the time he must have had a really good agent! Or friends in high places. And I think Adam must have had/must have some really important people in his corner.

Here's a Denver review of Lifehouse/Kris. Reviewers are dolts these days. A positive review, but still pretty dumb. Only mentions the cover of EWTRTW and about that, it says they managed to crank it out. I have no idea what they means. At least it says Kris has a great voice.

9NEWS.com | Colorado's Online News Leader | Lifehouse and 'American Idol' winner Kris Allen pack Ogden Theatre

 
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