Canadian Idol Fans Watching American Idol

[ross 1]

I couldn't edit my post because the time expired, but I just wanted to add:

"And the fact that what people want isn't Adam Lambert has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with... well... what they want."

This line is what I wish all the pundits would read! I really do believe it. I'm not sure it's all about contemporary vs. not-so-contemporary (though I agree Kris is more contemporary), but it's about styles people prefer.

I haven't watched AI much, before; I mainly didn't like the r & b melisma and the big singing. This season, I was originally prepared to dislike Kris, too. I mean, I heard some melisma and thought he was maybe just another r & b singer in the usual mold. (Heh.)

What I see on some forums is that many fans view AI as a vocal chord competition. As a CI fan, that has surprised me. It's like a dog show to some people. If you can do he tricks, you should win, and if you can't, you should lose. Actual pop has never been about impressing with voice size or range, rather than just making people feel good, but I think AI often has. It has vestiges of Star Search, an old show where a kid named Sam Harris sang Over The Rainbow way different from Kris.

Sam Harris

Doesn't he remind you a bit of Von Smith?

Incidentally, Von was Kris's roommate, at one point in the competition. (A little AI trivia, there.) I saw a video where Von was talking about Kris being out on the balcony of their hotel room, just singing and playing his guitar, and Von said he remembered thinking, "Why doesn't he do some of that on the show?" Ha.)

Kris was "less is more," in so many ways. Vocals, arrangements, presentation, clothes, personality, etc. I think he reperesents the Canadian Idol-ization of AI.

The way was paved by others on AI, I'm sure. But look at the direction CI went, once instruments were allowed, from auditions forward. Last year's Top 5 were all either singer-songwriter types or frontman types, or both (Drew). Mainly I think people like these artists, on a show like this, because there's a more immediate connection. You can identify with them more, and with their sound, and tastes in music.

 

[SleepinIn]

Thanks for the video Ross and the article too of course I completely disagree with him that CI is less interesting - lol. But you're right he has a lot of interesting things to say, that I do agree with and make a lot of sense. The CI model has always been geared not so much towards the vocal range but the artist's themselves. As Zach admitted in the VFTW's interview they were looking for interesting artists. Artist's with potential, and not necessarily straight vocal ability.

I've never really liked the melisma type of singing either, it's just not my thing. I'd probably say I'd never buy anything like that although I can recognize that they have great range.

It's funny that he said that Kris would be a great CI winner since I happen to think he's right. I just don't think that it's a bad thing.

Adam's voice is tremendous, and he really does have star power but AI didn't give me any direction for his future CD. For me - for both of them really - although I already bought the itunes pass for Kris -- it's all going to hinge on what their CD sounds like. Basically for everyone after Idol it all comes down to song choice - if they can pick the right songs to sing for themselves they can make a long term carreer out of this. Kris has shown that he has a knack for that.

and actually I've been rewatching some of the earlier shows that I missed and Kris was so consistent. It's a good sign. I don't know why Simon turned on him like a rabid dog, lol.

and the NBA tweeted a picture of Kris from behind the scenes at the game - he looks excited.

THIS... is your anthem singer tonight! American Idol Kris All... on Twitpic

It's bad that I know that right? lol

 

[SleepinIn]

oh, and I have no idea who Von Smith is.. lol - I'll have to google.

.. okay googled I remember him now. Hat guy.

 

[SleepinIn]

okay this one's kind of awesome. hee

Kris Allen nailed the freaking anthem. Haters to the left. on Twitpic

 

[ross 1]

Nice post (as usual!) SleepinIn.

[ETA: I guess you saw him do the anthem! Guess we both saw the same picture -- on mj's? Haha. Read on:]

I just watched Kris do the National Anthem and he did a beautiful job. I'm sure it'll be on YouTube. It's funny, but a couple of days ago I was reading some Adam fans (on mj's blog) going on and on about how Kris could possibly "change up" the anthem so he could hit the notes. Ha! He more than hit the notes, he even held one for the longest time. Why do I listen to these people? First time I've really heard him perform a capella, he had (to my tin ear) perfect pitch and his tone was beautiful. YAY. Happy for him.

Kris with Dwight Howard. My gosh, look at the feet!

Where was I? Oh, yeah:

It's funny that he said that Kris would be a great CI winner since I happen to think he's right. I just don't think that it's a bad thing.

I know, right? I thought of that a few times during the season, and then this guy says it -- only in a backhanded way. I have to say (if I even need to say it) Simon's shenanigans really gave me new respect for CI. I think on CI Kris would have gotten props, and Adam may not have been overpimped. Of course, who knows?

I went out earlier and went to a record store. While I was there I suddenly had a thought. Yesterday I saw that Kris, a long time ago, on the AI website, had said his favorite artists were, male, Jamie Cullum, and, female, Kelly Clarkson. I then YouTubed Jamie Cullum. I never heard of him, did you (guys)? He's a British jazz artist. Anyway I ended up buying one of his CDs and I like him. He does a lot of different things, you can find it all on YouTube, anyhow. Samples:

(Kelly Clarkson? Hm. I don't know, I tend to doubt that one.)

All At Sea

Mind Trick

What A Difference A Day Makes

 

[SleepinIn]

I think Adam would have gotten just as much praise on CI as on AI - the guy can sing. I think they would have fallen over themselves for him, but I do think that they would have recognized Kris's talent too. Although, it was really only Simon that was negative about Kris's singing -- and not even his singing - it his charisma and confidence that Simon was going on about.

I don't however believe that any of the CI judges would have gone on the radio the day after the finale and dissed the winner. But, I guess that's what we like about Simon - he's honest about his opinions. Like them or not.

 

[ross 1]

No, I think Kris got several negative comments about his singing. Not just from Simon, either, though Simon had his particular comments ("Self indulgent," "wet," "like having ice for lunch," "Danny, you were better than Kris,"). Rock week in particular was all about throwing him under the bus. In general, there were very few real raves for him. I mean, didn't Simon come right out and say, "I really don't think you have what it takes to win this thing."?

Even now that he's won, and they need to find superlatives from the judges' comments to put up on the AI website, there aren't many. The comments are quite mild, considering he won the whole show. Things like: (Paula) "You've earned the right to be standing in that spotlight." This was the best thing they could find! If Adam had won, or Danny, there would be no shortage of raves to quote. People usually say (esp. about Adam), "Well, he deserved them." He probably did, but so did Kris and he rarely got them.

If you saw the Larry King show, when they showed the judges' comments on final 2 night, about each guy, they were mixed for Kris, and total raves for Adam. Pretty much a reflection of the show's agenda, and a microcosm of the whole season. Yet both guys were great that night (great all season, for that matter). I'm pretty sure the CI judges would have seriously recognized and been big fans of Kris's abilities. I can't say that about the AI judges with a straight face.

And no, they sure wouldn't have dissed the winner after the show!

What I meant about Adam is mainly that giving honest recognition and pimping are different. Adam messed up a few different times and was never called on it.
His performance of One was especially bad, but he got away with it. Danny, also, got away with murder. The show had an agenda and the judges pushed it relentlessly.

imho! Ha.

 

[SleepinIn]

Yeah, I agree the finale comments were absolutely awful especially considering their performances on the night. I thought they were pretty evenly matched and the judges did backflips to praise Adam, and practically told Kris thanks for coming out and don't let the door hit you on the way out. In retrospect that actually kind of makes me wonder about the voting up until then to be honest. That maybe it hadn't been as close as everyone was led to believe all along and they were trying to push Adam over the top?? Who knows?

During the early rounds Adam did have some comments from Simon that weren't complimentary so he didn't get off scott free although he definately benefited from a lot of very effusive praise later on from the judges. Where Kris never really had that, although he had nice comments they weren't "You are the most current artist we've ever had on the show.. a combination of Robert Pattinson/Steven Tyler and Fall Out Boy" (whaaat??? That's current? and who knew Robert Pattinson could sing?) Yeah it was a little apparent that AI wanted Adam in the finale.

Now the CI judges (Zack in particular) had a vendetta against Sebastian. Zach did not want him in the top ten and that was also really apparent. So I guess they all have their favourites and there's not a lot we as viewers can do about it.

Except maybe vote for the person we like better.

I haven't gotten to One on the re-watch yet - but yeah I don't remember it as being very good.

Danny..now there's a whole nother topic, lol. I jumped off the Danny train after Hollywood I think - I just never understood Simon's love for Danny's style of singing.

 

[SleepinIn]

Hee - here's an interview from Sirius with Kris

YouTube - Is "American Idol" Winner Kris Allen Really that Humble? On SIRIUS XM Radio

short -- but I love the laugh.

 

[missaddicted]

Wow, I've been missing the action!

First, I was coming here to post this really nice blog post about Adam and Kris (or Kradam if you wish).

Is it wrong to say that although I think Kris is a very good looking guy that I really have no need for a giant photo of him downloaded from Itunes? LOL -- itunes think music. I need music, maybe a video.... I now have a giant pdf of Kris. What the hell do I do with it?

You kiss it good night before going to bed? That's what I do anyway... No, I don't really do that, I don't really know what to do with the picture either! It just sits there in my iTunes.

I've also been meaning to post this for a long time. It's actually unflattering to Kris and to Canadian Idol, but if you read the whole article, the guy still manages to say some interesting things.

Thanks for the article, ross. Interesting point of view, though of course, I disagree also about CI being a worse show that AI and about Kris being bland.

I pretty much agree with this though: "With the exception of the awful coronation song, he had barely a single pitchy moment the entire season. He also had barely a single memorable power note or vocal flourish all season. He wasn't the anti-Adam, more like the anti-Matt Giraud, who kept forcing his limited voice into places it couldn't go. While Adam was loved by many people, liked by some and hated by lots, Kris was loved by some, liked by nearly everybody and hated by virtually nobody. That's the path to "American Idol" stardom this season and I happen to believe that it was a reaction in Kris' favor and not against Adam.
Oh yeah and maybe people with more aggressive dialing fingers just preferred Kris' voice to Adam's voice on Tuesday night. Crazy, I know. But what's the fun in telling that narrative?"

Adam has a lot of obsessive fans, which is good for the short term, but also can be a bit scary if I think about what some of Cook's more obsessive fans have done in the last year. Kris has the potential to appeal to more people, but he doesn't have that obsessive (obsessive used in a pejorative way here) a fanbase I believe, which means he really has to be able to get the attention of a lot of people right away when his first single/album drops. It's probably best for him that Kris doesn't have a lot of women of a certain age drooling over him (I guess being married "helps" in that case, but not being gay), I admit their behavior can sometimes be embarassing (not all of them act that way of course, the majority doesn't), and I often try not to think about the fact that some of the women who call David Cook "boyfriend" on the boards are married women with teenage kids. I'm his age and single and would never think about calling him that. Anyway, I went off on a tangent here, but I do believe it's somewhat better for Kris that he lacks that kind of a fanbase who likes to give themselves a name (the Claymates, the Soul Patrol, the Blaker Girls, the Word Nerds, the Glamberts and the Lamb skanks come to mind).

OK, back to that article. I like his last paragraph, because it pretty much mentions a pet peeve that I've had since the finale. I've found some of Adam's fans really condescending towards Kris' fans. Some are trying to put all of Kris' fans into the "anti-gay, conservative, bland-liking, "simple" people" box (yes, I've seen that written on TWoP) and I really hate that. I really don't think I fit at all with that description! And really, their argument that Kris won because of the Danny voters doesn't work anyway: Adam and Kris were only separated by 1 million votes on top 3 night, and Danny voters were certainly not voting for Kris that night! Kris still had to get to the top 2 (without pimping I might add), before "upsetting" Adam.

I miss CI too. I think that's one of the reason's I gravitated to Kris so much. He's very much in the vein of CI with his musical talents, style of singing and musical choices.

It's funny that he said that Kris would be a great CI winner since I happen to think he's right. I just don't think that it's a bad thing. :icon_smile:

The way was paved by others on AI, I'm sure. But look at the direction CI went, once instruments were allowed, from auditions forward. Last year's Top 5 were all either singer-songwriter types or frontman types, or both (Drew). Mainly I think people like these artists, on a show like this, because there's a more immediate connection. You can identify with them more, and with their sound, and tastes in music.

I agree with you both on the above. Actually, the Cook fan in me thought after he won last year, that he would also have done really well on CI (honestly, Drew was just a really pale "imitation" of Cook for me, not that he was trying to imitate him, but more in the sense that they probably have really similar tastes in music and a similar background in music as well). But Kris would have fit on CI just as well I believe. Adam too, I think. And I if go by the iTunes sales, Adam would even probably have won over Kris in Canada actually, since he was selling almost better than Kris, especially compared to the situation in the U.S.

I also miss CI by the way...

OK, posting this right now, I'll write another post about the rest before confusing myself!

 

[missaddicted]

Kris did awesome with the National Anthem! Sorry, haters! The pictures with the basketball players are hilarious!

Kris also officially got signed to Jive. The press release is really nice (MJ posted a link on her blog I believe) and Kris gets some props by Simon Fuller and the head of JIVE (Barry Weiss or something like that).

Ah, a discussion about the judges... Seriously, if there's one thing that won't make me come back for the next season of AI, it will be the judges. I really have harsh feelings for them all. Really. And I hate having harsh feelings towards four people on a reality show, it really makes the experience less enjoyable. I would take the CI judges over the AI judges any day.

Thanks for the Sirius interview, SleepinIn. I love it!

 

[SleepinIn]

Intervention - I need an intervention. I'm overdosing on google.

There's a tiny bit of Kris on Dwight Howard's blog.. mostly he's looking away.. so a real tiny bit, lmao.

FAN INTERACTION BEFORE GAME 2 « The Official Dwight Howard Blog

 

[missaddicted]

This was just posted on TWoP:

I was watching Extra just now, and they did a piece on the celebs at the Laker game. They showed a quick snippet of Kris singing (of course it was the "land of the fray" line haha ... but seriously ... I don't get why this is such a big deal. It's called a Southern accent!) and then got a soundbite from him telling a story about how a girl wanted a picture with him and then kissed him smack on the mouth. Apparently there ARE no boundaries.

So, I guess Kris is not immune to inappropriate behavior from fans either. No boundaries indeed.

 

[ross 1]

SleepinIn, that interview... "but didn't we all win?"... I think we just got a little glimpse of Kris's evil side. Kind of surprising, but I think I like it. I think part of what he and Adam have in common is a very snarky sense of humor, actually.

Kris also officially got signed to Jive. The press release is really nice (MJ posted a link on her blog I believe) and Kris gets some props by Simon Fuller and the head of JIVE (Barry Weiss or something like that).

I don't think I saw the press release itself, but I saw the Simon Fuller quote and I liked what he said about Kris, and about how he'll stand the test of time, which I thought was really cool. Like they don't see him as a "disposable" Idol winner, but somebody they're willing to invest time and effort in, for a long-term payoff. Or did I read too much into that? lol

First, I was coming here to post this really nice blog post about Adam and Kris (or Kradam if you wish).

I enjoyed that blog post.

Well, maybe not this part: "Now, it is American Idol after all, folks: it is a popularity contest. And in the end, maybe the guyliner was a little more than America could stomach in its new American idol." I get kind of sick of reading the variations on that argument. A popularity contest, not a singing contest (Adam sings, Kris is "popular") America's not ready for a gay idol. (But they love a gay runner up. Makes no sense, right?) Give it a rest, people. Sheesh.

Sorry to digress. Anyhow, yes, that was a beautiful blog post and really choked me up.

Adam's obsessive fans: I'm kind of scarified by them, and I think his loss only added fuel to their fire. Seems like they do include a lot of "the frauen," as VFTW calls them. ("Lamb Shanks?" Really? *shudders*)

(btw: Did you guys see the pix of Adam at the Young Hollywood awards? I think he looks good when he dresses in clothes that flatter him, but that was not a good look on him, imho.)

I have to answer a lot more that you guys wrote, but I guess there's plenty of time for that. Talk to you later.

 

[ross 1]

OK, back to that article. I like his last paragraph, because it pretty much mentions a pet peeve that I've had since the finale. I've found some of Adam's fans really condescending towards Kris' fans. Some are trying to put all of Kris' fans into the "anti-gay, conservative, bland-liking, "simple" people" box (yes, I've seen that written on TWoP) and I really hate that. I really don't think I fit at all with that description!

I know I don't fit that description. I'm liberal, and I don't like bland performers or music, etc. I just think a lot of those people are incredibly sore losers. It's weird. Like: denial. The show did these folks no favors, making Adam's win seem inevitable and Kris seem undeserving. That was never the case. These fans had the rug pulled out from under them. I mean, if they'd been at all prepared for the possibility Adam would lose, they would have accepted it way more easily and they wouldn't be so angry.

And really, their argument that Kris won because of the Danny voters doesn't work anyway: Adam and Kris were only separated by 1 million votes on top 3 night, and Danny voters were certainly not voting for Kris that night! Kris still had to get to the top 2 (without pimping I might add), before "upsetting" Adam.

Right! Funny you said that because I was thinking the same thing the other day!

 

[ross 1]

"Kris won the hearts of millions of Americans with his soulful voice, good looks and gracious demeanor," stated Simon Fuller, Creator and Executive Producer of American Idol and Founder & CEO of 19 Entertainment. "However it is his passion for music and love of performing that will make sure Kris stands the test of time and makes 'American Idol' proud."

"Kris had a terrific run of memorable performances culminating with an incredible win," stated Barry Weiss, Chairman and CEO of the RCA/JIVE Label Group. "He's a super-talented singer and all-around gifted musician who has that rare common touch which will give him the ability to connect with the broadest possible audience. We're really excited to welcome him to the Jive family."

--------------

“To find a talent as exceptional as Adam Lambert is a rare and special event,” says Simon Fuller, Creator and Executive Producer of American Idol and Founder & CEO of 19 Entertainment. “I am thrilled that American Idol was the platform for the world to discover this brilliant young man. He is unique and unforgettable and a certain star of tomorrow.”

“There are no longer any rules in terms of where the world’s next superstars may come from,” says Barry Weiss, Chairman & CEO RCA/JIVE Label Group. “We are thrilled to be getting involved with Adam Lambert as we all at RCA Records believe he is one of those rare, future global stars”.

----------------------

So what do you guys read between the lines of these press releases in terms of how they will be marketed and what the company sees for them?

Comparing these two press releases is a little like watching the show all over again. (“To find a talent as exceptional as Adam Lambert is a rare and special event.") Still, somehow, I mostly like Kris' release better. Just personally, because I guess it describes the type of star I want to listen to. His release is also a lot warmer.

I don't think Adam is overhyped, exactly, he's everything they say he is, but somehow they just shouldn't raise the bar so high, for him. It's not fair to him. I mean, what if he somehow does not live up to all those predictions? Also, same as on the show, people don't like a "star" forced on them, they like to decide who they want. But what do I know?

 

[missaddicted]

Ah, the press releases. Yes, when I read Adam's, I felt the angst coming up for approximately two seconds, before saying to myself: heh, who cares? And you're right about the huge expectations for Adam. The bar is set really high for him.

Have you read the quotes from RS? Apparently, he first had a crush on Kris, lol.

Anyway, some posters on a David Cook board wrote great posts that pretty much sum up my feelings right now on Adam and the RS article, so I'll just repost them here:

Everything about Adam's RS cover gives off a manufactured and phony vibe to me. He waited to talk about being gay because it would be better to do it in Rolling Stone? Oh please. I'm going to wait to read the full article, and not judge the quotes so far as the height of BS. I'm once again seeing Adam not as a rock star, but one acting like it. I can't shake this feeling and I started out really liking Adam, and it's all been downhill for me.

I'll take David's personality and talent over a Rolling Stone cover any time. For me, David is real and Adam isn't, no matter what anyone says about him just being who he is, etc. RS hasn't been about music in a long time, and it's more about the culture. I guess at this time, Adam fits more with that than any other Idols.

Is anyone else feeling a bit of Adam Lambert fatigue? I still like the guy and I hope he's successful, but I'm getting a little sick of hearing how amazing and different and unique he is. I don't know, maybe I'm just grouchy, but I prefer DC and Kris's approach which centers more around the music than the fame aspect of this whole thing.

As somebody who really liked Adam out of the gate, I have to admit, I'm already kind of sick of the guy. Some of this, if I'm being honest, is because I feel like this whole "With apologies, to Daughtry and David Cook, Adam Lambert is Idol's First Genuine (!!!) Rock Star" thing is really insulting to contestants who didn't have any big "secrets" to hide and were working rock musicians for years before they auditioned for Idol. I joked on MJs a few weeks ago that David should consider making a big announcement that he's bisexual, because the media just loves this whole ridiculous "Is he or isn't he?" thing. So stupid.

I just replied with a big fat WORD to their posts.

Change of subject: Some songwriters have posted on Twitter about working with Kris. First, it was David Hodges (formely from the band Evanescence I believe). He wrote songs for Carrie Underwood and Archie (among others) and also co-wrote the song "My Last Request" with Cook (iTunes bonus song that was given to the ones who preordered his CD, like me) and I really really like that song. Hodges seemed to really enjoy working with Kris.

Also, Claude Kelly just posted on Twitter also. He seemed to LOVE Kris. He said he was a pro and INCREDIBLE (yes, in caps) and that the song was great. By the way, Kelly co-wrote "My Life Would Suck Without You" (I'm sure you're going to be happy about that ross) and Britney's "Circus". It's a bit of a weird match for Kris, but who knows...

 

[SleepinIn]

I've been thinking about this too.. (ha! way too much apparently..) but yeah, I hope that Adam's music doesn't get buried by the hype. But - I can't help but think that the tour this year is going to be a hell of a ride for all of them, since the media seems so willing to follow where Adam leads this year. And that ultimately it will be a good thing for all of them.

That little youtube clip of Kris saying " I wawn".. Lol - I loved it so much, and I throughly agree that I do think that Kris and Adam share that snarky sense of humour. It's just not as apparent in Kris since he was given the pious christian label, and he's quiet. Like you can't be religious and have a sense of humour? Or you can't be gay and be the boy next door? Or that being quiet doesn't mean that you are lacking in confidence. This year turned a lot of the Idol stereotypes 180 degrees. I think that it's what I like the most -- aside from the singer songwriter winning of course. And truly it would have been almost as good if Adam had won. I like the two of them a lot, so it's win win for me.

I just hope they don't ignore Kris completely to promote Adam but I think in the long run Kris's talent is going to win some of the doubters over. He has too much talent not to.

 

[SleepinIn]

and yeah he did win.. so it's not like he doesn't have any fans, lol.

 

[SleepinIn]

EW interview with Kris

Kris Allen on loving Jacko, learning the viola, and being a heartthrob | Music news, reviews, albums, concerts, and downloads | The Music Mix | EW.com