Canada inches toward private medicine

[Jay]

Your mortgage payment is $600.00? I pay twice that, even after the down payment on my house....


"I'll be happy to, as soon as you tell me how many people die on your waiting lists."

Or the people who are dead because they had to listen to the constant chatter about how feck'n bad it is, and how the rich get everything....yadah, yadah, yadah... BS we have to listen too...It's not good enough to run the system (poorly) but to continue to grip bitch and whine is killing me.

You got Gm workers making over 100K a year (includes over time) voting NDP to keep a socialist medical system….nothing but a bunch of corn fed, greedy losers, who’s vote can easily be bought. Screw em.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Canada inches toward

Not really the point, ITN. We had a study done that shows how we can fix the present system and still be cheaper than yours and most others. It's called the Romanow Report.

Jay is arguing against that report being implemented and for the adoption of a US-style system. He is doing so for ideological reasons and I doubt he understands the implications of that ideology.

He is not the only one making such arguments, but the things that he shares most with others in favour of adopting a US-style system is a denial that the Romanow Report can work because it was written by a socialist (oddly enough, there are factions of the conservative Saskatchewan Party now trying to claim Romanow as one of theirs), and the denial that privatisation of health care in Canada would lead to a US-style system.

Obviously he is familiar neither with the Romanow Report nor with what trade experts have said about the meaning of NAFTA's chapter 11.

 

[I think not]

People dying on your waiting lists, AND, people going south for medical treatment because they cannot wait months on end, AND, they end up paying anyway, IS the point. No system is perfect, least of all a government run industry.

Certainly Canada is no model for medical care, since you rank right up there with us.

 

[Jay]

Did I say that out load....

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Canada inches toward

Afraid to answer the questions, ITN?

Nobody is denying there are problems up here. That's why the Romanow Commission was formed to generate a report. Now those on the right (including the Martinites) don't want to follow the report's recommendations. They say the cost is too high.

The cost of implementing the report's recommendations is lower than the alternatives they are putting forth though, and will deliver quality care to all Canadians equally.

You started this discussion, now answer the questions.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Canada inches toward

Afraid to answer the questions, ITN?

Nobody is denying there are problems up here. That's why the Romanow Commission was formed to generate a report. Now those on the right (including the Martinites) don't want to follow the report's recommendations. They say the cost is too high.

The cost of implementing the report's recommendations is lower than the alternatives they are putting forth though, and will deliver quality care to all Canadians equally.

You started this discussion, now answer the questions.

Like I said, answer me how many Canadians die on your waiting lists and I'll be happy to.

Yes it's great to blame the conservatives but you have other parties in parliament that can easily pass legislation implementing the Romanow Report. Interesting why they don't do that. Ever wonder why?

 

[mrmom2]

Yep its pretty close to that Jay we got in just before the prices went crazy and i do live in one of Canada's most affordable citys :wink:

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Canada inches toward

Afraid to answer the questions, ITN?

Nobody is denying there are problems up here. That's why the Romanow Commission was formed to generate a report. Now those on the right (including the Martinites) don't want to follow the report's recommendations. They say the cost is too high.

The cost of implementing the report's recommendations is lower than the alternatives they are putting forth though, and will deliver quality care to all Canadians equally.

You started this discussion, now answer the questions.

The cost is too high, because it isn't just the healthcare system is it...no, it is the package the left has brought down on us.

We can't afford this socialism anymore, when are intelligent people going to understand this? Maybe we need a revolution or something...

 

[Jay]

Certainly Canada is no model for medical care, since you rank right up there with us.

The Canadian model for health care is extremist.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Like I said, answer me how many Canadians die on your waiting lists and I'll be happy to.

Yes it's great to blame the conservatives but you have other parties in parliament that can easily pass legislation implementing the Romanow Report. Interesting why they don't do that. Ever wonder why?

There are no solid numbers for how many die on our waiting lists. All indications are that it is a relatively rare occurence because the most serious are treated the most quickly. If you'd even attempted to actually learn about the issue, you'd know that though.

You also apparently did not see fit to read what I wrote, even though you quoted it. Either that or you aren't sure which party our PM belongs to. Interesting how you don't know what Martinites are.

Now, since you started this discussion, answer the questions.

The Canadian model for health care is extremist.

No, the Canadian model for health care is designed to look after everybody equally. That would be the opposite of extremist.

 

[Jay]

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=495

"
“In short, the Commission concludes that more taxpayer money is needed, that more government regulation of health care is needed and that private provision of all health care services should be effectively banned. In the meantime more heart surgery candidates died on the waiting list,” says Walker.

The $15 million cost of the Commission could have eliminated the bypass surgery waiting lists in Ontario, Manitoba and Saskatchewan combined, or all of Ontario and the Atlantic provinces, notes Walker. "

 

[Jay]

"No, the Canadian model for health care is designed to look after everybody equally. That would be the opposite of extremist."

No, socializing the system is extremist.... not allowing people who can afford healthcare to not be able to pay for it themselves, while helping the poor is extremism....doing this while the waiting lists grow is extremism. Having people go to the US to get healthcare while paying for the current system is extremism. Saying no two-tier healthcare is extremism...

 

[mrmom2]

OH feck no not the Fraser NEOCONS please don't quote them Aholes Jay they would have us mired in Iraq too :wink: I can't stand that group of wealthy excuse makers for the elite :evil: FEck them Jay that not a good group :wink:

 

[Jay]

Sorry mrmom to disappoint, but I had too.


If they can use Roy Romanow, I can use The Fraser Institute.

 

[mrmom2]

Jay Ive been reading there reports my whole life and I'll tell ya right now they do not have yours or my best intrests in mind all they care about is making sure the wealthy stay that way and the rest of us pay there bills :wink:

 

[Vanni Fucci]

*sigh*

What needs to be done is to look back to the last 15 years, and try to understand that it has been the right, that's right kids, the right-wing pig-f*ckers that have broken the system with their budget cuts and intentional underfunding to make privatization of healthcare delivery appear more attractive and mainstream. I include the Liberals in my condemnation as they, in this regard, have been just as damaging as Conservatives have been...how can there be billions in surplus, yet healthcare is underfunded???

Had the healthcare system received the funding it required throughout the lifetime of the system, we would not be having this discussion, because we'd all be receiving quality healthcare and laughing our asses off at the Americans who can't make it work...

But no...now the system seems to be beyond repair...Romanow may have some of the answers, but everyone thinks it will cost too much...shit yeah it will...but once the money is spent to bring the system back to pre-right-wing-breaking-the-system levels, it will just be maintenance and housekeeping...before that though, everything will be indexed to before the cuts started to happen...and man it's going to cost big...

Will it be worth it? I'd like to think so...fuck national pride, I don't want to go bankrupt paying for services that were transparent my entire life...

 

[Jay]

Good post Vanni.

I for one am not willing to allow politics to get in the way of healthcare. I don't care if the right or the left is running it, it will be a game.

Help the poor, and leave the rest of us to our own devises. Simple.

 

[Reverend Blair]

You know where the border is, Jay.

What everybody misses about Romanow, and places like the Fraser Institute distort and lie about, is the cost. There are several recommendations in the report that would actually save money and, while the expenditures sound high, it is a less expensive system than the alternatives being offered.

Those that are willing to pay more because they have some kind weird phobia about the government being involved refuse to even consider the fact that Romanow will save them money. That's their problem.

As Vanni pointed out, a lot of the costs are to fix what the Mulroney and Chretien governments broke. If the program had been properly maintained, we wouldn't be in this mess right now. They didn't break it by accident though. They knew they were underfunding it, they understood the implications of what they were doing.

Underfunding a program until it cannot fulfill its mandate, then getting rid of the program because it is fulfilling its mandate, is an old trick.

 

[Jay]

"You know where the border is, Jay."


Yes I do.


Night folks.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Night Jay... :sleepy2: