Canada Has Not Learned Yet

[Senathos]

RE: Canada Has Not Learne

My point is that the Feds shouldn't even be collecting money for transfer payments, the provinces should have the full say on their responsibilities -- if Alberta wants to have all private health care, they should be able to do it without the Feds hassling over transfer cuts. If Quebec wants to have public-only health care, it is their free choice as it is a provincial responsibility.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Canada Has Not Learne

It is not solely a political responsibility though, Senathos. We have the Canada Health Act, which is constitutional and federal, for instance.

If you really want to destroy this country, just keep diminishing federal powers. Canada will devolve into a bunch of provinces acting as independent states. In turn those will be gobbled up by the US. When that happens they will find themselves back where they started...without the powers that you think they should have.

 

[Vitamin C]

I've read a lot in other threads of this forum where people ask for an explanation of why Quebec wants to separate. It is sometimes very hard for us to understand.

I would just like to point out that everyone here seems to be very unsatisfied with the Liberals and Conservatives.....and yet they are the two parties that Canada always seems to vote for.....

Quebec wanted an alternative party to vote for, and they got two....

They see us vote for Liberals and Conservatives and they think, Canada is becoming very much like America and they don't want that....

They think the exact things that you all think. They also believe that all of Canada thinks the same way as the major Canadian parties, because we vote for them. They don't want to separate from Canadians, they want to separate from the the Liberals and the Conservatives, the same as the rest of us.

There are other issues, but this is one of the major ones.

 

[Robair]

Hey, good post 'C'!

 

[Musicman]

Re: RE: Canada Has Not Learne

My point is that the Feds shouldn't even be collecting money for transfer payments, the provinces should have the full say on their responsibilities -- if Alberta wants to have all private health care, they should be able to do it without the Feds hassling over transfer cuts. If Quebec wants to have public-only health care, it is their free choice as it is a provincial responsibility.

Good points. And the constitution supports your opinions. More provinces need to assert their claims over their constitutional guaranteed responsibilities. The less federal government involvement, the better. Provincial governments know much better what is important for their constituents than the federal government does.

 

[Numure]

This country was founded on responsible government for Canadians, I know that does not appear to be the case, sometimes
but that was the intent. A strong government can even be a minority government, it all depends on how well the people in power can bargain with others.
The one thing I like about the system is that it makes it difficult to have the Tories elected, ha ha.
This conservative idea of having the provinces, increase their powers, with a weak Federal Government, would be a disaster for our country, especially when you look at who is currently in charge of the Conservatives.
I like the present system, first past the post and a strong federal government.

The federal government has no constitutional right to have as much power as it does.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Canada Has Not Learne

I think the Feds need to retake some provincial powers. Like medical/health for one, take control natural resources like lumber, oil etc, be the only ones that can tax. Too many levels of government 4 (5 if you count translink) here in Vancouver that can impose taxes. Too much bureaucracy . Too much duplication.

They have no business in our affairs. Canada has been having a huge unity problem ever since, the federal government started hogging powers and revenues.

 

[MMMike]

The more 'local' the government, the more accountable to its citizens it is. Much more effective too, not like the federal government trying to impose blanket solutions on the entire country.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: Canada Has Not Learned Yet

The more 'local' the government, the more accountable to its citizens it is. Much more effective too, not like the federal government trying to impose blanket solutions on the entire country.

I like that Idea, the only problem is is that you'd have many many many local gov'ts with slightly different rules or policies. We may as well break up into city states.

Federalism is supposed to blanket local gov'ts to keep some elements standardized so we all have similarities no matter where you go.

:? All good ideas, I wonder where they went wrong?

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Canada Has Not Learned Yet

The more 'local' the government, the more accountable to its citizens it is. Much more effective too, not like the federal government trying to impose blanket solutions on the entire country.

I like that Idea, the only problem is is that you'd have many many many local gov'ts with slightly different rules or policies. We may as well break up into city states.

Federalism is supposed to blanket local gov'ts to keep some elements standardized so we all have similarities no matter where you go.

:? All good ideas, I wonder where they went wrong?

Thing is, this country both bilingual and bicultural, officially.
You can put one standard for everyone. Continued federalism as it is exercise right now, is going to kill this country. Watch Québec leave, then Alberta follow, and the rest break up.

Centralised Government can work elsewhere, sure. But will never work in Canada. When did the seperatist movement in Québec start taking so much wind(Becoming serious)? After WW2. What happenned after WW2? All the powers the provinces gave to the federal government to help the empire, they decided to keep. Thus making the Canadian federal government what it is now.

 

[Shiva]

Re: RE: Canada Has Not Learned Yet

Thing is, this country both bilingual and bicultural, officially.
You can put one standard for everyone. Continued federalism as it is exercise right now, is going to kill this country. Watch Québec leave, then Alberta follow, and the rest break up.

Centralised Government can work elsewhere, sure. But will never work in Canada. When did the seperatist movement in Québec start taking so much wind(Becoming serious)? After WW2. What happenned after WW2? All the powers the provinces gave to the federal government to help the empire, they decided to keep. Thus making the Canadian federal government what it is now.

I'm curious, what powers are you referring to?

 

[Vitamin C]

The seperatist movement has been around much longer than most people think. I have personally read documents I found in the library at UQAC that date from the 1880s. I'm sure there is older stuff. I'm sure there have been seperatists since Canada was officially established, in 1867 or whatever and even before that.

I'm sure there have been seperatists since Quebec City was conquered.

I think that the dynamics in Quebec really shifted in the 1960s. Has anyone here who is not from Quebec ever heard of the Tranquille Revolution?

 

[Jo Canadian]

I'm sure there's been separatists in Quebec since New France was lost after general Wolfe and general Montcalm duked it out over Quebec city,

 

[Shiva]

The seperatist movement has been around much longer than most people think. I have personally read documents I found in the library at UQAC that date from the 1880s. I'm sure there is older stuff. I'm sure there have been seperatists since Canada was officially established, in 1867 or whatever and even before that.

I'm sure there have been seperatists since Quebec City was conquered.

I think that the dynamics in Quebec really shifted in the 1960s. Has anyone here who is not from Quebec ever heard of the Tranquille Revolution?

It's usually referred to as the Silent Revolution in English, and is a reference to the movement in Quebec to take over economic and gov't institutions, the key positions of which were all held previously by English speaking people. It's taught in high school history classes in Ontario, can't speak for the rest of the country.

 

[Vitamin C]

Re: RE: Canada Has Not Learned Yet

I'm sure there's been separatists in Quebec since New France was lost after general Wolfe and general Montcalm duked it out over Quebec city,

In a somewhat unrelated side note I would like to share another quote.

Brigadier James Wolfe launched a bloody campaign against the inhabitants on both sides of the river, spreading a reign of terror that featured not only pillage and plunder but rape, murder, and indiscriminate scalping.

The book is written by an american history professor at Yale. It is mostly about Acadians and le Grand Derongement, but touches on the conquest of Quebec as well. He apparently found documentation authorizing his troops to use rape, murder, scalping, etc, as tactics to intimidate/reduce moral of the "enemies"....

Some may say, that is old history, we can't keep holding on to it. But if you go to Quebec City and go to La Citadelle (which is still an active military base), and see how he is praised for shaping Canada, it is hard to forget "our" history.

The formal dress for the RCMP is the traditional British redcoat uniform. How can we ask des quebecois to forgot our british history when we are constantly waving it in their faces? In their capital city no less......

There are also "Canadian" soldiers there dressed up in the red coats and tall block bearskin caps that they wear outside buckingham palace in London, England.

If our history in the ROC condemned Wolfe and his cronies for what he was, we could move on as a country. But when we treat him like a hero and sanitize history, we can't move on. Unfortunately.

If Canada is ever going to move on we need to stop celebrating British history as ours, and view it for what it is, a brutal disgrace to humanity.

Canadians need to stop having such a boner for the British!

Crisse les anglais dans le Saguenay!
Vive les Canadiens!

 

[Jo Canadian]

:lol:

Canadians need to stop having such a boner for the British!

:lol:

:lol: I think most have.

 

[Shiva]

:lol:

Canadians need to stop having such a boner for the British!

:lol:

:lol: I think most have.

Yeah...unfortunately...that's not the sort of thing that's very obvious to many people in Quebec. Most English Canadians don't give a damn about the British anymore. Witness the huge throngs of youth dying to sign up for the monarchist league.

 

[Shiva]

oops...double post

 

[Martin Le Acadien]

Re: RE: Canada Has Not Learned Yet

I'm sure there's been separatists in Quebec since New France was lost after general Wolfe and general Montcalm duked it out over Quebec city,

In a somewhat unrelated side note I would like to share another quote.

Brigadier James Wolfe launched a bloody campaign against the inhabitants on both sides of the river, spreading a reign of terror that featured not only pillage and plunder but rape, murder, and indiscriminate scalping.

The book is written by an american history professor at Yale. It is mostly about Acadians and le Grand Derongement, but touches on the conquest of Quebec as well. He apparently found documentation authorizing his troops to use rape, murder, scalping, etc, as tactics to intimidate/reduce moral of the "enemies"....

Some may say, that is old history, we can't keep holding on to it. But if you go to Quebec City and go to La Citadelle (which is still an active military base), and see how he is praised for shaping Canada, it is hard to forget "our" history.

The formal dress for the RCMP is the traditional British redcoat uniform. How can we ask des quebecois to forgot our british history when we are constantly waving it in their faces? In their capital city no less......

There are also "Canadian" soldiers there dressed up in the red coats and tall block bearskin caps that they wear outside buckingham palace in London, England.

If our history in the ROC condemned Wolfe and his cronies for what he was, we could move on as a country. But when we treat him like a hero and sanitize history, we can't move on. Unfortunately.

If Canada is ever going to move on we need to stop celebrating British history as ours, and view it for what it is, a brutal disgrace to humanity.

Canadians need to stop having such a boner for the British!

Crisse les anglais dans le Saguenay!
Vive les Canadiens!

In "Le Derangement" the Acadiens have never forgot the homeland! History is "sanitized" for appearence sakes for it is true, War is Hell! The Victor got to write the history book but his vanquished foes also keep a record book and are holding court on this!

 

[Shiva]

This country was founded on responsible government for Canadians, I know that does not appear to be the case, sometimes
but that was the intent. A strong government can even be a minority government, it all depends on how well the people in power can bargain with others.
The one thing I like about the system is that it makes it difficult to have the Tories elected, ha ha.
This conservative idea of having the provinces, increase their powers, with a weak Federal Government, would be a disaster for our country, especially when you look at who is currently in charge of the Conservatives.
I like the present system, first past the post and a strong federal government.

The federal government has no constitutional right to have as much power as it does.

On what are you basing that statement? Don't you think the provinces would be screaming at the top of their lungs if the federal gov't was exercising some power that constitutionally didn't belong to it? I'm sorry, but you're going to have to back that statement up before I can believe or agree with it.