Canada Bashers Double Standard

[cortez]

i dont believe that concoiusness can really be defined in other terms-- it is in irreducible ---substance--- or more like an irreducible --activity---
is consciousness bound to the individual---
yes i do think so
but youve framed the question in a manner which will polarize your thinking...

is consciousness bound to individualS
would imply another presupposition

if you mean whether consciousness if bound to an individual body- brain
yes i believe that is the case
consciousness is what the brain DOES

im lost- as you can see im an amateur.

 

[Toro]

RE: Canada Bashers Double

I'm conscious enough not to think about consciousness because I'm conscious to know it has no conscious in every day life.

 

[cortez]

yes- you toro are example of what in philosophical terms is known as the
happy consciousness- and you are really quite fortunate- so you dont have to think about it

cortez and caracal- and many others on this forum are examples of
the unhappy consciousness-- forever at odd with the world
we live a painfull bitter and difficult psychic life as we struggle to move history forward-- by amoung other things trying to wake up the people with the happy consciousness so we can share our pain with them
although its not an easy life
it makes for a great heroic struggle
and gives great meaning to our lives

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Canada Bashers Double Standard

are you certian that is always the case, db?

think of the interactions.....

Certianty is also a myth, part of the conciet of mankind, individuality can only be approached never attained, there is no existance without the others, there is no reflection without the mirror. We are all part of the one, that we cannot escape, we were always here, we will always be here, there is no escape.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Canada Bashers Double

There are levels of awareness ,the conscious mind seeks to accumulate awareness I have attained the awareness of my monumental ignorance and true insignifigance. I go to my death chuckling , I know nothing , I never did know anything I never will know anything. Relativly speaking,relative to the rest of the universe etc:

UR=1 OVER EVERYTHINGELSE thats the tiny little you and the tiny little me

 

[the caracal kid]

yes, cortez,
there are two camps on this issue of consciousness binding. Those that do believe that consciousness is bound to the brain, and those that believe the brain is merely a portal to consciousness. The question will not be answered anytime soon, however, concepts within the field of particle physics with theories such as the holographic universe, or even the more fringe morphogenetic fields may provide clues. I am of the camp that consciousness is bound to the brain, for reasons I won't get into here, at least not yet.

db, you are quick. Indeed certianty is a creation of man. That aside, shall I pose the question to you in a different manner: what came first, the system or the part/individual (chickens and eggs running amok, but the answer is not so simple as the chicken and egg, which can easily be answered via the application of evolution)

 

[cortez]

holographic universe-like david baums theory
particle physics like- the bose-einstein condensate

regardless of the above
its certain for me that the consciousness is as i said before what the brain does

the best book on this subject that ive been able to understand is

consciousness explained- by dennett

all this doesnt contractict DB acute observation that there is no moment when individuls exist in isolation--
we are from the begining social beings--

i think that being of leftist orientation we might assume 1- a materialist underpinnning to consciousness
2- that it is part of a larger social consciousness
3- that it has a momentum forward all its own
4- that the material world affects consciousness
creates it , enslaves it-yes, but also provides clues as to the next best step foward to loosen that grip
5- all this is very unstable and periodically collapses into a low level consciousness of fear hate fanticism obsessive compulsive acquisitiveness insanity fascism and other depravities

really the above -- is a variation on marxs historical materialism

so whats the next best step.....

 

[Jay]

I thik we should ship all right-wingers to Alberta where they belong where they will toil in the oil fields in their little capitalist paradise with no public health-care
and no other services.

Surrounded by a wonderful socialist paradise around it.

And we would still do better than you guys, as we have and always will!

 

[Jay]

Oh and BTW, caracal kid.

I quit my job, sold the house and left my wife last night. I only drink protein shakes now and find shelter where I can get it. I believe I'm free now. Thanks for all your help in this matter. Oh and I ditched religion too and I also gave up reading....

 

[cortez]

i dont think all that was good idea jay

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Canada Bashers Double Standard

Oh and BTW, caracal kid.

I quit my job, sold the house and left my wife last night. I only drink protein shakes now and find shelter where I can get it. I believe I'm free now. Thanks for all your help in this matter. Oh and I ditched religion too and I also gave up reading....

Cool, time for camping then?

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Canada Bashers Double Standard

i dont think all that was good idea jay

I think it is a great idea, and I have CK to thank.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Canada Bashers Double Standard

Oh and BTW, caracal kid.

I quit my job, sold the house and left my wife last night. I only drink protein shakes now and find shelter where I can get it. I believe I'm free now. Thanks for all your help in this matter. Oh and I ditched religion too and I also gave up reading....

Cool, time for camping then?

Absolutely...what ever shall I wear?

 

[Jay]

Holy shit your teeth are big!

 

[I think not]

:lol:

 

[the caracal kid]

"all this doesnt contractict DB acute observation that there is no moment when individuls exist in isolation--
we are from the begining social beings-- "

it goes beyond "the social animal". Nothing exists in isolation, and in fact it is the interactions of the nodes of a system that play a major role in defining the node. It is the interactions within systems that are of importance. The social nature of humans adds but one more system to the mix of nested systems at play.

Consciousness is still one of the great mysteries of mankind. We define it philosphically, yet we have nothing objective yet. We have more proof that free will is a subjective illusion.

 

[Blackleaf]

The top countries are as follows

Hong Kong 1 [1.28]
Singapore 2 [1.56]
Ireland 3 [1.58]
Luxembourg 4 [1.60]
United Kingdom 5 [1.74]
Iceland 5 [1.74]
Estonia 7 [1.75]
Denmark 8 [1.78]
United States 9 [1.84]
Australia 9 [1.84]
New Zealand 9 [1.84]
Canada 12 [1.85]
Finland 12 [1.85]
Sweden 19
Norway 30
France 44

Britain is the highest-ranked large country, beaten only by mini-countries that are virtually non-entities - Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland and Luxembourg.

US, Canada. Germany and France need to get their acts sorted out.

 

[Blackleaf]

i would prefer the canadian military be back home safe and sound

So what's the point in having a military if you don't want those nasty men in Iraq to hurt them?

There's no point in having an army if they are just gonna be "safe and sound" at home all day.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Canada Bashers Double Standard

The top countries are as follows

Hong Kong 1 [1.28]
Singapore 2 [1.56]
Ireland 3 [1.58]
Luxembourg 4 [1.60]
United Kingdom 5 [1.74]
Iceland 5 [1.74]
Estonia 7 [1.75]
Denmark 8 [1.78]
United States 9 [1.84]
Australia 9 [1.84]
New Zealand 9 [1.84]
Canada 12 [1.85]
Finland 12 [1.85]
Sweden 19
Norway 30
France 44

Britain is the highest-ranked large country, beaten only by mini-countries that are virtually non-entities - Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland and Luxembourg.

US, Canada. Germany and France need to get their acts sorted out.

But. Still. Beaten.

Remember, you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. We are all part of the same compost heap. Evolve and let the chips fall where they may.


You have to give up.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Canada Bashers Double Standard

yes, cortez,
there are two camps on this issue of consciousness binding. Those that do believe that consciousness is bound to the brain, and those that believe the brain is merely a portal to consciousness. The question will not be answered anytime soon, however, concepts within the field of particle physics with theories such as the holographic universe, or even the more fringe morphogenetic fields may provide clues. I am of the camp that consciousness is bound to the brain, for reasons I won't get into here, at least not yet.

db, you are quick. Indeed certianty is a creation of man. That aside, shall I pose the question to you in a different manner: what came first, the system or the part/individual (chickens and eggs running amok, but the answer is not so simple as the chicken and egg, which can easily be answered via the application of evolution)

The answer is beyond our comprehension I think,every answer comes with a million new questions, the complexity of our universe I believe is so far beyond and above what we are equipt
to comprehend. Much has been written about enlightenment and the multitude of paths to attainment. But like Gnostics we are in the end stuck with the poverty of words that cannot adequetly approach feelings and direct knowledge, witness the thousands of tomes written on the subject of god and not one word of it can approximate the power of a little bird in the hand. If I must exercise my linear thought process of cause and effect I will guess that the system was in place before we were and we are a response to it. We were I believe created by it so that it might study it's own refection through our eyes. Much has been written about the accumulation of awareness and the purpose for that accumulation, it is suggested that true enlightenment allows the bearer to circumvent incorporation back into the one at termination, I feel from your scribblins that you have explored avenues of the otherwise, you know that these contemplations are very old in us and that for all the ages of our existance we have pondered our purpose and direction. I find satisfaction and a more complete feeling in altered states, there are many living allies that plug into our own circuitry, fly agaric has been identified as soma and that has been suggested as the birth of the rational mind, and that has been called the original sin ,our departure from the garden. For all these ages since we have felt that loss of
innocence and connection to the one, we live in confusion and panic dreaming of the technological fix. I am only a virtual beaver my own dim awareness condemns me, I will never transend the barrier.