Canada and natives

[Dreadful Nonsense]

When you're turning them into parasites, you think you're really doing a good thing? One loses his/her dignity when he/she is fed by the others. And believe me, more and more people will begin to look down on them.

A good example:

You know there're Uigurs in China(oh, BTW, they are not like the natives in Canada, the land where they live has been within the territory of China since Han Dynasty,about 1800 years ago, and their ancestors moved to there much later).

.

I have a real hard time with Chinnese talking about their history...these are the same govt. that went into Tibet , buthcered a million, tried a tactfull genocide.....and turns to the world and say it was part of our country and recalls to some Dynasty that for a second in time had a relationship with Tibet... relationshipnot the back to the motherland Maoist propaganda....so...grrrrrrrr

 

[smilingfish]

I have a real hard time with Chinnese talking about their history...these are the same govt. that went into Tibet , buthcered a million, tried a tactfull genocide.....and turns to the world and say it was part of our country and recalls to some Dynasty that for a second in time had a relationship with Tibet... relationshipnot the back to the motherland Ma oist propaganda....so...grrrrrrrr

Well don't you think the natives thing is exactly like "some Dynasty"? And what about Israel?

If you really think "who live on the land, who own it, your ancestor once owned it long ago doesn't count", then what is it about the contract?

When I tell you about Uigurs and that land, I'm just telling the fact that is written in our history books(not textbooks, real history books written by ancient Chinese).

M a o died 2 years before I was born. I don't like those craps. And really, I just hope the go v can just give up those lands and let them have their own countries, and stop wasting money on them. These people are becoming blood suckers on Han Chinese. (Well sounds like there're blood suckers everywhere all over the world, the difference is just some blood suckers came to the land earlier than you, and some came to the land which was already occupied by you.)

Tibet is another story though, yes, they're using a stupid excuse, Yuan Dynasty was founded by Mongolians, who were not even Han Chinese. The real China of Han Chinese was dead at that time and it was like a prey to those Mongolians exactly like Tibet. I knew it.

Oh, BTW maybe you can compare the inner Mongolia and outer Mongolia. Really interesting. I hear that the outer Mongolia is talking about going back to China. I just hope that horrible thing will never happen.

I'm off the topic again. Anyway...Hey, look, I am not using double standards. But you are, if you think Sinkiang and Tibet are not a part of China, but natives should get all these benifits from the land their ancestors owned in their old "Dynasty".

;-)I admit why I prefer Canada is because I can speak out loud. And I know what you mean, I've seen way more brain-washed guys.

 

[talloola]

Bull, they fought between each other all the time. They fought wars, built cities and had armies (not the plains folk specifically, they didn't build cities). By the time we rolled into the plains to settle land had already changed hands many times since we'd scouted the area. Natives had their own bloody rivalries (just like everywhere else on earth) long before Europeans showed up. Hell, they used to think of Inuit as subhuman monsters fit only for extermination.
They were 'canadians' fighting over their own property amongst each other. They had no chance
of defeating europeans who came to robb/steal/give them desease/and show utter greed.

The point is property rights. If someone owns the land, you can't take it because they are a native.
Of course the point is property rights da!!!

 

[Zzarchov]

they were not Canadians. They were their own nationalities. And they did not concider themselves "one people". That is like claiming all Europeans thought of themselves as one people.

Thats like claiming the USA had no right to launch D-Day because it was just Europeans fighting over their own property amongst each other.

They too had their own brutal warlords who would show utter greed when whipin out smaller nations and putting their citizenry to the torch. They had their noble kings and their great villains and were no different than humans anywhere else. Weak nations were conquered by greedy stronger nations and that pattern continued when even stronger nations entered the area (ie, Britain)

 

[Twila]

ZZarchov, So what your saying is that it's ok for the absolute destruction of the fishery inorder to uphold contracts to natives? So the destruction of the fish that echo's through so many other ecosystems is ok because somebody made a contract and now we all have to suffer for it? That's illogical and also gives rise to a whole new generation of Darwin award winners. So how come we must follow the letters of the contracts but it's ok for them to not?

The natives are not now and have never been caretakers of the land. They are people/humans just like all us bipedals.

 

[Johnnny]

its tough but ive heard of stories were the natives would net schools of walleye from lake nipissing and keep the whole schools while they were spawning. And say there were other fish caught in there nets like northern pike they would throw the pike in the bush and let them die. That kinda pisses me off but i dont hate on natives for it. Also i hear of a few natives who go out and shoot deer and leave the carcass rotting in the woods....:roll:

 

[Unforgiven]

I don't know if they were nations. Tribes certainly but not a nation as I think of it. Tribal society is loads different than the model which make up the western world now.

Hunter gather lifestyle has fallen by the wayside due to a more successful[subjective I suppose] way of living. There is no opportunity for competition only assimilation or annihilation. While the US chose one method Canada attempted another.

they were not Canadians. They were their own nationalities. And they did not concider themselves "one people". That is like claiming all Europeans thought of themselves as one people.

Thats like claiming the USA had no right to launch D-Day because it was just Europeans fighting over their own property amongst each other.

They too had their own brutal warlords who would show utter greed when whipin out smaller nations and putting their citizenry to the torch. They had their noble kings and their great villains and were no different than humans anywhere else. Weak nations were conquered by greedy stronger nations and that pattern continued when even stronger nations entered the area (ie, Britain)

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

The Sioux were addressed as the Sioux Nation.
So are the Cree.
They were Iroquois , Huron, Mohawk....Now we have the Six Nations made up of various Native nations.
The sons of Abraham went out and created many nations...Some bedewin....
See where i'm going with this?

 

[talloola]

they were not Canadians. They were their own nationalities. And they did not concider themselves "one people". That is like claiming all Europeans thought of themselves as one people.
Their own nationalities, all on their own soil, fighting each other over it, that is their right and their
own business.

Thats like claiming the USA had no right to launch D-Day because it was just Europeans fighting over their own property amongst each other.
How absurd

They too had their own brutal warlords who would show utter greed when whipin out smaller nations and putting their citizenry to the torch. They had their noble kings and their great villains and were no different than humans anywhere else. Weak nations were conquered by greedy stronger nations and that pattern continued when even stronger nations entered the area (ie, Britain
Haven't read in any history books how they tried to take England/France or any other european
country away from it's people. They were not very progressed, easy prey, uneducated in our ways,
perfect sitting ducks for a greedy and mean group who must have enjoyed how easy it was to
bring them to their knees.

 

[talloola]

its tough but ive heard of stories were the natives would net schools of walleye from lake nipissing and keep the whole schools while they were spawning. And say there were other fish caught in there nets like northern pike they would throw the pike in the bush and let them die. That kinda pisses me off but i dont hate on natives for it. Also i hear of a few natives who go out and shoot deer and leave the carcass rotting in the woods....:roll:

And how about all the hunters who kill, then take the head home for a trophy, and hang it on their
wall, invite all their friends over and say " Look Bubba isn't this a record size or what, can't wait for
the next trip."
I've been in those trophy rooms, makes me want to vomit.

 

[Unforgiven]

Yeah let's see the immigration rules to enter the "Sioux Nation". Six Nations don't have no borders. The sons of Abraham is a story. Time to get real.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

Yes it is the reason. You may not be a religious person anymore, but the culture is still in your heart. Only a person from a totally different culture can see it because he/she's not influenced by this original sin culture.

I'm not saying it's bad. Actually I think it's good. The point is, if a good thing goes too far, it goes to the opposite.

When you're turning them into parasites, you think you're really doing a good thing? One loses his/her dignity when he/she is fed by the others. And believe me, more and more people will begin to look down on them.

Yes it is what reason? I am not sure how you got talking about original sin or what it has to do with natives, Canada, treaty contracts, native land claims, China or anything else in this thread.

I do take your point of turning them into parasites. That is essentially the reason I would advocate making a clean break with them by honouring our contract obligations, settling our land claim obligations and eventually giving their "nations" a limited autonomy within the country of Canada. Natives, if they are going to live on reserves, need to be responsible for their own destiny. The relationship between Canada and the natives has been one of paternalism. Natives are Canadians and have every freedom and right that every Canadian shares.

 

[smilingfish]

Yes it is what reason? I am not sure how you got talking about original sin or what it has to do with natives, Canada, treaty contracts, native land claims, China or anything else in this thread.

I do take your point of turning them into parasites. That is essentially the reason I would advocate making a clean break with them by honouring our contract obligations, settling our land claim obligations and eventually giving their "nations" a limited autonomy within the country of Canada. Natives, if they are going to live on reserves, need to be responsible for their own destiny. The relationship between Canada and the natives has been one of paternalism. Natives are Canadians and have every freedom and right that every Canadian shares.

Nothing...Just wanted to take this chance to vent about something...And debating is fun.

Anyway, A, everything is related to the others, you can see the similarity between everything, just like human is related to bacteium(oops, I'm doing this again, starting to talk about biology in this thread) But this is how orinal sin, minorities in China, and "anything else" came into my mind. Yeah, I'm too good at talking off the topic...8O

B, yes, I agree with you. A clean break is best choice. Give them the choices, live on the reserves or become a real Canadian with equal rights and responsibilities as the others. (And believe me, those who live on the reserves would want to "come back" to Canada like outer Mongolians want to come back to China)

Oh, C, Zzarchov thinks new immigrants "chose to come to a country, AGREED and SOUGHT out citizenship in that country and bear all responsibilities of being a citizen" so they should pay too. Well, I think new immigrants only agree to play by the rules and bear everything like everyone else before the rules are CHANGED;-) under the effort of the people of Canada, and then they'll play by the new rules.