Calling all Separatists!

[Numure]

Re: So What if...

The separatist as pretty confident about the next referendum in 2008 or so, but what if they lose? What is the plan then? Is it simply trying again?

Yep. As long as it takes. Or until the support is no longer there.

So I am correct in my analogy about the whining child who simply continues to pester his/her mother until she gives in.

What recourse would Quebecers have after a yes vote? Would there be another vote when negotiations are complete to finalize this. What if after some years, a federalist party was elected in Quebec and held another referendum to rejoin Canada, would that be respected?

We will see when that time comes. But to my knowledge, it would be respected.

And yes, a second vote was already planned after a succesful one. Most even thought of many votes.

First one to give the mandate to negotiate.

Second to approve the negotiations.

Third for our own constitution.

Anyways, the order is without importance. When the time comes, we will know what to do. And democracy will always be respected. That is, 50 +1.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatists!

English also became more dominant because it was not as resistant than French to change. The english language absorbed many words from other languages while French is a bit more closed upon itself. For example, the word phantom comes from the french "fantôme" and the word ghost comes from German ("geist" I believe...) These two words pretty much mean the same thing but English didn't hesitate to borrow both of them...
English has adapted itself better to it's environments.

Under the norman rule, the english language evolved to involve a huge assortement of french words.

 

[Machjo]

That's why English is such a messed up language with three synonyms for every word, chaotic spelling and esceptions at every corner!

 

[DasFX]

Re: So What if...

The separatist as pretty confident about the next referendum in 2008 or so, but what if they lose? What is the plan then? Is it simply trying again?

Yep. As long as it takes. Or until the support is no longer there.

So I am correct in my analogy about the whining child who simply continues to pester his/her mother until she gives in.

What recourse would Quebecers have after a yes vote? Would there be another vote when negotiations are complete to finalize this. What if after some years, a federalist party was elected in Quebec and held another referendum to rejoin Canada, would that be respected?

We will see when that time comes. But to my knowledge, it would be respected.

And yes, a second vote was already planned after a succesful one. Most even thought of many votes.

First one to give the mandate to negotiate.

Second to approve the negotiations.

Third for our own constitution.

Anyways, the order is without importance. When the time comes, we will know what to do. And democracy will always be respected. That is, 50 +1.

Actually this information was comforting to know. I hope it is true, based on what you wrote I believe Quebecers will know exactly what they are doing.

50% + 1 has always been used so it shouldn't change now. I still believe Quebec will remain in Canada, but some changes should occur.

5 friends of mine are moving to Montréal (from Toronto), 3 are originally from Quebec and all 5 are for the No side, so that's five more votes for Canada.

If Canada really wanted to be tricky, why wouldn't they encourage people from other provinces to move to Quebec. That can't be illegal and it isn't wrong.

 

[Machjo]

Re: So What if...

If Canada really wanted to be tricky, why wouldn't they encourage people from other provinces to move to Quebec. That can't be illegal and it isn't wrong.

Illegal? I don't think so.
Wrong? Well, it does seem a little underhanded.
Effective? Well, considering how much money the feds would need to pay for the flight for the incentive to relocate, some fiscally conservative Canadians might not be too happy about that, not to mention that Quebec undecideds might feel offended enough at such a move to vote for sovereignty, feeling that they're being manipulated with their own tax dollars.

So yes, it might technically be legal, but probably not a good idea on a pragmatic level.

 

[DasFX]

Re: So What if...

So yes, it might technically be legal, but probably not a good idea on a pragmatic level.

Well, if there were no government involvement, then it would be okay. Quebec is a good place to live; it is much cheaper than Ontario. Perhaps Canadians should stack the deck in their favour on their own. We have 13 or 14 million people in Ontario, why don't 2 or 3 million of them head over to Gatineau and Montréal? Montréal used to be the big city in Canada, and would love to be again.

 

[Jay]

"If Canada really wanted to be tricky, why wouldn't they encourage people from other provinces to move to Quebec. That can't be illegal and it isn't wrong."

So you don't think it’s wrong for a government to try to influence a referendum by picking Federalists and strategically locating them to places that would change the natural outcome of a vote?

 

[Machjo]

Re: So What if...

So yes, it might technically be legal, but probably not a good idea on a pragmatic level.

Well, if there were no government involvement, then it would be okay. Quebec is a good place to live; it is much cheaper than Ontario. Perhaps Canadians should stack the deck in their favour on their own. We have 13 or 14 million people in Ontario, why don't 2 or 3 million of them head over to Gatineau and Montréal? Montréal used to be the big city in Canada, and would love to be again.

Heck, the people of Quebec would be thrilled! It would boost Quebec's economy, and mean more people under Bill 101! Sure it might cost them sovereignty, but then again, if you've got more people in Canada sending their children to school in Quebec, where French would be a required second language, not to mention that they'd be seing predominantly French signs throughout their entire childhood, the people of Quebec would welcome it. And yes, this might even get many hard core sovereignists choosing to stay with Canada on the grounds that it allows more Canadians to go to Quebec to learn French. As long a such a trend should continue, the people of Quebec would continue to support federalism.

You're onto something there.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatists!

"If Canada really wanted to be tricky, why wouldn't they encourage people from other provinces to move to Quebec. That can't be illegal and it isn't wrong."

So you don't think it’s wrong for a government to try to influence a referendum by picking Federalists and strategically locating them to places that would change the natural outcome of a vote?

No referendum has been called, and there may never be one so influencing people to live in a certain part of the country wouldn't be bad. Besides just because people move there from other parts of Canada doesn't guarantee that they will vote no.

 

[Numure]

Re: So What if...

So yes, it might technically be legal, but probably not a good idea on a pragmatic level.

Well, if there were no government involvement, then it would be okay. Quebec is a good place to live; it is much cheaper than Ontario. Perhaps Canadians should stack the deck in their favour on their own. We have 13 or 14 million people in Ontario, why don't 2 or 3 million of them head over to Gatineau and Montréal? Montréal used to be the big city in Canada, and would love to be again.

10 million people in Ontario....

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatists!

"If Canada really wanted to be tricky, why wouldn't they encourage people from other provinces to move to Quebec. That can't be illegal and it isn't wrong."

So you don't think it’s wrong for a government to try to influence a referendum by picking Federalists and strategically locating them to places that would change the natural outcome of a vote?

No referendum has been called, and there may never be one so influencing people to live in a certain part of the country wouldn't be bad. Besides just because people move there from other parts of Canada doesn't guarantee that they will vote no.

So there is no basis for moving people there.....

 

[DasFX]

Re: So What if...

10 million people in Ontario....

Malheureusement vous êtes incorrect. Ah zut alor, n'est pas?

January 1, 2005 Estimate
Canada - 32,078,819
Newfoundland and Labrador - 516,986
Prince Edward Island - 137,734
Nova Scotia - 937,538
New Brunswick - 751,257
Quebec - 7,568,640
Ontario - 12,449,502
Manitoba - 1,174,645
Saskatchewan - 995,280
Alberta - 3,223,415
British Columbia - 4,219,968
Yukon Territory - 31,227
Northwest Territories - 42,944
Nunavut - 29,683

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050324/d050324c.htm

 

[Reivilo]

OUi, en effet, l'Ontario est la province la plus populeuse du Canada et c'est elle qui domine en terme de croissance démographique la plus élevé aussi!

 

[DasFX]

What would be the reaction if the provincial liberal government called a referendum on sovereignty that asked a very simple question about the total and complete separation from Canada? This way the federalist could set the question without any PQ trickery.

Or they should pose a referendum question on if Quebec wishes to remain a part of Canada under a renewed federation. As well, have a second question asking if a moratorium of 50 years on this question should be instated.

 

[DasFX]

Soft Seperatist!

Former Lévesque aide to seek PQ leadership
Last Updated Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:18:08 EDT
CBC News

Louis Bernard, a Parti Québécois strategist and former chief of staff to former premier René Lévesque, has joined the race to lead the PQ.

Bernard is the second candidate to officially seek the top job.

Former PQ cabinet minister Pauline Marois declared her candidacy immediately after the surprise resignation of Bernard Landry earlier this month.

Bernard says Quebec is ready to become independent, with close ties to the rest of Canada. "We have in our pockets 25 per cent of the Canadian currency. We are the ones that buy more products from Ontario than we sell to Ontarians. The best argument is that we are a people. We are partly sovereign. We want the whole," he said.

Bernard admits he has no organizers and little political backing behind his leadership bid.

Former PQ cabinet minister Andre Boisclair is expected to announce Friday that he will enter the leadership race.

The new PQ leader will be chosen in November.

Close ties to the rest of Canada; is that the way they soften the harsh realties of separation?

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatists!

What would be the reaction if the provincial liberal government called a referendum on sovereignty that asked a very simple question about the total and complete separation from Canada? This way the federalist could set the question without any PQ trickery.

Or they should pose a referendum question on if Quebec wishes to remain a part of Canada under a renewed federation. As well, have a second question asking if a moratorium of 50 years on this question should be instated.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the rest of Canada had a vote deciding weather or not WE wanted Quebec to stay? I think it would be neat to see their reaction to a pending vote of that nature. :twisted:

 

[Said1]

Bernard says Quebec is ready to become independent, with close ties to the rest of Canada. "We have in our pockets 25 per cent of the Canadian currency. We are the ones that buy more products from Ontario than we sell to Ontarians. The best argument is that we are a people. We are partly sovereign. We want the whole," he said.

Isn' t the above bolded text what is better known as a trade deficit?? They are not producing these products regardless of nation-state status. :roll:

 

[Bluerocks]

Bernard says Quebec is ready to become independent, with close ties to the rest of Canada.

Close ties to the rest of Canada; is that the way they soften the harsh realties of separation?

I laugh when I see this. The PQ wants close ties with Canada once separated. They (PQ along with the Bloc) have an opportunity right now to work alongside with the Federal Government. Yet, all you hear from Duceppe is.... Quebec doesn't get enough :jerk:

But what is upsetting the most is the fact that Gilles Duceppe and even the PQ leadership is distancing themselves from the rest of Canada. They do & say everything according to their ``own`` interests.

The best way to sum this up is:

Try to work toward unification instead of division

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatists!

Wouldn't it be interesting if the rest of Canada had a vote deciding weather or not WE wanted Quebec to stay? I think it would be neat to see their reaction to a pending vote of that nature. :twisted:

could be a good idea, much less hypocrith than the "we love you quebec" march last referendum :roll:

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Calling all Separatists!

Wouldn't it be interesting if the rest of Canada had a vote deciding weather or not WE wanted Quebec to stay? I think it would be neat to see their reaction to a pending vote of that nature. :twisted:

could be a good idea, much less hypocrith than the "we love you quebec" march last referendum :roll:

True, although I don't recall marching.