Calgary paper runs cartoons

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
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Saint John N.B.
Sad to see that certain Maritime universities are censoring these cartoons. One school paper was pulled off the stands because of them and a professor,who taped the cartoons to his door,had them removed. Where is Freedom of Speech and Expression, if not at the colleges and universities?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Freedom of thought is meaningless without the freedom to communicate one's thoughts to others. Thus if freedom of thought is an absolute right, it would seem to follow that freedom of speech must also be absolute. But speech is a transaction between two (or more) parties: one conveying information and one or more receiving. All parties have the equal right to freedom of thought, and freedom of thought entails the right not to listen, not to read, not to view, etc. In other words, by the principle of equality, no one has the unlimited right to impose unwanted speech upon another. The distinction must always be recognized between freedom of speech and freedom of action.

Everywhere I turn, there is talk about someone getting offended. In fact, it seems that offending people is just about the worst thing that can be done today aside from murder. Adultery is surely more acceptable than offending someone these days. Do you know what offends me most? People constantly getting offended. Nothing offends me more than someone who is so "offendable" that they have to make every little thing that people do or say a big deal and as a consequence thereof, want to strip me of my right to express myself.

For the record, I find Austria outlawing an expression that the Holocaust never happened, the US Department of Defense outlawing the broadcasting of coffins returning from the Iraq war on television and Canadas "hate laws", equally despicable. We seriously need to rethink which way we are heading if we allow government to tell us what we can and cannot think.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
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Re: RE: Calgary paper runs cartoons

Colpy said:
Good for the Jewish Free Press.

Good for Ezra Levant.



Anything goes on, everyone one in the world knows what the prophet means to muslim, attacking or laughing at it, knows will anger the muslim, but in france , a french humorist criticized israeli policy, not jews god, or any stupidity like that, he went to jail for 2 weeks, all we can say from that, it is funny to laugh at muslim in general, but it is anti-semite or anti-american to criticized or laughed at americans or israelis, pathetic guys like you are.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
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Vancouver, BC
Hate Propaganda Laws

To the poster who argued that the hate propaganda laws in Canada are "dispicable," I would entirely disagree; in my opinion, we need those laws to protect our society in Canada from those who would attempt to disassemble it.

If freedom of expression should be absolute, should we then permit those who would argue for the execution of entire peoples, simply on the basis that they are different, to do so? Should we permit those who would argue to strip rights from individuals, on the basis that they are different, to do so?

An absolute freedom of speech is a dangerous idea, in my opinion; the extent of our freedom of speech is limited, in Canada, in order to protect the nation and its inhabitants, and I am glad that those laws do so.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
You're right, I was.

 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
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Vancouver, BC
If freedom of speech and expression should be absolute, then who is the Government to determine when someone is overstepping those bounds? Should the Supreme Court of Canada rule in favour of the accused of crimes, solely on the basis that their vandalisation was a form of expression?

Perhaps a murder was made to make a political point? Should that expression be disallowed?
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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www.kdm.ca
RE: Calgary paper runs ca

five,

while i do agree our hate laws have a respectable intention, there is a great risk that such laws result in the suppression of "truth" in favour of the expression of "propaganda".

When we sterilize our speech, the people become ill-equiped to argue with the suppressed language making them more susceptable to coersion rather than less.

In some regards, the concept of "only responsible freedom of speech" is a process in the dumbing down of the populace.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Calgary paper runs cartoons

FiveParadox said:
If freedom of speech and expression should be absolute, then who is the Government to determine when someone is overstepping those bounds?

That's the point, they cannot and shouldn't.


FiveParadox said:
Should the Supreme Court of Canada rule in favour of the accused of crimes, solely on the basis that their vandalisation was a form of expression?

Perhaps a murder was made to make a political point? Should that expression be disallowed?

I think you're confusing freedom of speech with an act.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Freedom of Speech

:!: Warning! This post may contain coarse language. Reader discretion advised.

You appear to be evading the substance of my posts in lieu of a more "you're wrong because I disagree with you" approach. The argument that freedom of speech should be, in and of itself, entirely absolute and ultra vires any institution of Government is, in my opinion, too dangerous an idea to adopt.

Consider this situation:

An anti-gay group is advocating for the deportation of homosexuals from Canada; on every street corner, and in front of every public building, they protest the presence of homosexuality in Canada with signs that read "Deport the fags!", and similar flyers are distributed everywhere, and are strewn outside schools and other public buildings.

Is this freedom of speech acceptable?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Re: RE: Calgary paper runs cartoons

aeon said:
Colpy said:
Good for the Jewish Free Press.

Good for Ezra Levant.



Anything goes on, everyone one in the world knows what the prophet means to muslim, attacking or laughing at it, knows will anger the muslim, but in france , a french humorist criticized israeli policy, not jews god, or any stupidity like that, he went to jail for 2 weeks, all we can say from that, it is funny to laugh at muslim in general, but it is anti-semite or anti-american to criticized or laughed at americans or israelis, pathetic guys like you are.

Wreck Beach.

Now.

You'll find the thread.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
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www.kdm.ca
RE: Calgary paper runs ca

five,

what about the scenario where a special interest group obtains enough power to attempt to slowly rewrite history, and in the process declares those that speak of the real history to be anti-whatever?

The only way to keep history honest and people aware of all sides is to allow the expression and debate of all sides.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
As you wish.

Personally, I would prefer to not have people inciting hatred toward anyone in Canada, and I would hope that there is at least someone out there who shares my opinion on that.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
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Saint John, N.B.
Re: RE: Calgary paper runs cartoons

FiveParadox said:
Colpy, personal attacks, least of all from our Board of Directors, are highly inappropriate outside of Wreck Beach.

True enough.

Edited above post, am waiting for my oponent on Wreck Beach.

Insulting words at ten paces.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
RE: Calgary paper runs ca

I agree with you that not having hatred incited is desirable.

However, the hate laws run the risk of driving these groups underground, where they "fester", while the mainstream looses its immunity to their methodologies.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
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Saint John, N.B.
Re: RE: Calgary paper runs ca

the caracal kid said:
I agree with you that not having hatred incited is desirable.

However, the hate laws run the risk of driving these groups underground, where they "fester", while the mainstream looses its immunity to their methodologies.

I agree completely.

Ideas, and I mean any ideas, need to be exposed, turned over, poked, prodded and debated. Forcing questionable ideas underground, to be nursed by true believers in secret, simply means those ideas are not challenged.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
I would think that their ban would be a message in and of itself; it basically says "Your view is inappropriate and is not welcome in this society."

But I can see where both of you are coming from.

I guess being on the receiving end of a lot of "hatred" for the past two or three years, as a member of, I suppose a "minority," has made me somewhat sensitive to the issue of free speech. I have no tolerance for intolerance.