Bush’s Iraq syndrome

[Haggis McBagpipe]

America did not enter WWII to defend herself or freedom, though. The attack on Pearl Harbour hardly constituted a threat to Americans, and was seen as a gift to pro-war Roosevelt, finally he had a mandate to go to a war he had long wanted to enter.

The US believed that the fall of Britain and Europe was inevitable, she accepted this and was willing to have diplomatic relations with Germany. This defeatist attitude went unchallenged until Americans, and indeed the world, stood in awe at the utter determination, will and unparalleled courage of the British people and Winston Churchill during the bombing of London.

I don't know if we'd fight or not. I'd like to hear other views on this, because it is an interesting thought, do we have it in us to defend what we believe in? Do we even know anymore what we believe in?

 

[researchok]

America did not enter WWII to defend herself or freedom, though. The attack on Pearl Harbour hardly constituted a threat to Americans, and was seen as a gift to pro-war Roosevelt, finally he had a mandate to go to a war he had long wanted to enter.

The fact that the US and other non European allies weren't attacked doesn't lesson the efforts. Like Canadians and Aussies and others, the US entered the war for moral reasons. While Roosevelt may have been pro war (pro British is a more accurate description), the country was definately more isolationist, as a whole.

The US believed that the fall of Britain and Europe was inevitable, she accepted this and was willing to have diplomatic relations with Germany. This defeatist attitude went unchallenged until Americans, and indeed the world, stood in awe at the utter determination, will and unparalleled courage of the British people and Winston Churchill during the bombing of London.

What you're describing was US isolationism at it's best/worst- and you're discounting Pearl Harbor- which had a proud effect impact on the American psyche.

Your remarks were provocative in one way, though and beg the question-- would America have entered the war without Pearl Harbor? You may have a point- The US Congress was without a doubt reluctant to enter the fray prior to Dec 7. 1941.

Lastly, I like your last question best-- what is it we belive in?

Well, I can only speak for myself-- which in a way, is exactly what we believe in, I think-- those freedoms-- freedom of speech, religion, freedom of want and freedom of fear.

However we define them, we innately understand that by defending them for ourselves, we defend them for others.

That is a great question, Haggis-- you ought to repost some of these interchanges on a new thread. Like you, I'd like to see diggerent responses.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

The fact that the US and other non European allies weren't attacked doesn't lesson the efforts. Like Canadians and Aussies and others, the US entered the war for moral reasons.

Other non-Euro allies, Canada and Australian, were in the war in support of the British. The US was not. They stood by and watched England damn near go down in flames.

In what way did the US enter the war for moral reasons? If that had been the case, they would have been in the war much sooner. They came into it, kicking and screaming, as a result of Pearl Harbour.

It was a god-given chance to try out a couple of new-fangled bombs, too: note that two different types of bombs were used on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, a uranium bomb blasted Hiroshima, a plutonium bomb devastated Nagasaki. The US had developed these killing machines and by god, here was a golden opportunity to use them.

Consider that Japan was very much on the brink of surrender when those bombs were dropped... so why were they dropped? To make sure they worked, of course, and to put the fear of god to the Russians, for the seeds of what would become the McCarthy era were already forming in the US. Were American lives saved by the genocide? Not likely.

Robert McNamara, former Secretary of Defense, has since said that he and the others involved in the firebombing of Tokyo and the nuclear devastation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have, had the war gone the other way, been tried for war crimes, and, he said, for good reason.

What, then, is the moral reason for the US entering WWII?

 

[researchok]

FDR did support the Brits, despite opposition from Congress. A good part of the aid (massive material convoys) was kept hidden from that isolationist Congress, as well.

Canada and other Commonwealth countries were essentially obligated, by treaty, to come to Britains defense-- at the time a more moot issue as Britain declared war on germany after she invaded Poland.

After Pearl Harbor, there was no 'kicking and screaming'. The US went into full wartime production after a near unanimous vote to go to war.

Lastly, there was no bomb till after the Manhatten Project-- a project at first turned down by FDR, after he was informed by Einstein and Oppenheimer of the German nuclear efforts.
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[Haggis McBagpipe]

Lastly, there was no bomb till after the Manhatten Project-- a project at first turned down by FDR, after he was informed by Einstein and Oppenheimer of the German nuclear efforts.

Well sure, there was no bomb until after the Manhattan Project - the Manhattan Project is what produced the bomb(s). Yes, it was a race to see who could build it first. The German nuclear efforts effectively ended on VE Day, more likely sooner.

 

[researchok]

Well sure, there was no bomb until after the Manhattan Project - the Manhattan Project is what produced the bomb(s). Yes, it was a race to see who could build it first. The German nuclear efforts effectively ended on VE Day, more likely sooner.

Ain't that the truth!!

As I recall, the Germans were less than a year behind-- am I right about that?

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

Sounds about right. One of the things that slowed down the Germans, of course, was the constant bombing of their industries and cities, night and day. It is amazing that they produced what they did. The heavy water plants were in Norway because they were easier to defend, yet even they were bombed.

The German nuclear potential was never a threat to the US since there was no possible delivery capabilities.