Bush Has a Lot to Answer for on Iraq Torture

[Numure]

Ohh I've read that article already... Quite good might I add. Though, I wonder what word they used for evil in french. Anti-Americanism, is higher here, then anywhere else in Canada. Not only among the youth, but pretty much everyone. I remember so many hockey games, in montreal, where the American National Anthem was booooooooooed... Why? Not out of sheer ignorance, please. But, out of protest, for their unjustified wars, and double standards.

How exactly different is 'Oh Canada' from the pledge of allegiance?

I know in Québec, no one learns it in school... Actually, I don't even know the pledge of allegiance. Never heard it, or bothered to hear it. Don't know for RoC though.

While it's nice to be able to blame 'corporate America' for all the worlds ills and absolve anyone anywhere of any culpability and thus justify any behavior, well, that just doesnt work in the real world.

I blame them for brainwashing most americans... You guys have one of the lowest percentage of post-secondary diploma holders in the western world. Take the shoes of your average American, who holds only his American history class (I still don't understand why Americans, don't get a Global History class in high school), and no further understand of the world around him.

It might fly in sophmore poli sci, but for the rest of us, it's not so clear.

For me, it is. And I did a minor in poli sci, at McGill mind you :roll:

I knhow I'm probably wasting my time, but read this.

What ever other people might say, I doubt your wasting your time. I might not agree with your point of you, but I respect it.

 

[researchok]

Thanks for your pst, numure.

My remarks were addressed to someone else.

You are in a different position, in that Quebecois fall into a third category, if you will- that of being on the inside out and the outside in all at once.

My referance to Oh Canada was in response to an earlier poster who had complained about the US pledge of allegiance-- whose words are equivalent to Oh Canada. No more, no less.

Now, I will agree with you that the economic system-- pointedly, any economic system-- has influence beyond its boundries in the educational system. I think thats where a vibrant and healthy scepticsm come in, to find the right balance.

However, I do maintain that simply placing the onus on one single source for all that isnt well is simplistic.

You studied poli sci-- you know that the world we live in is a reflection of speed chess played on many levels in real time. However tempting it is to reduce that to a simple message, it is a mistake.

Anyway, I pointedly left out remaking on the US educational system-- because no doubt it needs fixing badly, in many areas-- but by the same token, it is also very alive and vibrant at the research stage, etc. I know you understand where Im going with that. Id like to pick it uo with you at a later point.

Je vous remerci, mon copain-- c'est vraimant un plaiser de bavarder avec quel q'un que comprendre les nuances de notre monde...

Anyway, je reve de Chalet BBQ.....!

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

IRAQ:
Norway reacts to torture of children
As a reaction to the alleged torture of children,
Norwegian authorities state they will address
the US both politically and diplomatically and clearly
state that it is not tolerated.
http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article249696.ece


According to a 1998 report by Mr Flyer, one third of
military recruits had arrest records. A 1995 report
found that a quarter of serving army personnel had
committed one or more criminal offences while on
active duty. In his 2003 study, Mr Flyer said that
military personnel officers had been reluctant to
toughen up screening procedures, fearing
that the result would be a failure to meet
recruitment goals.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0705-01.htm

From the Chicago Sun Times:
General to pilot: 'You acted shamefully'
July 7, 2004
BY FRANK MAIN Staff Reporter

An Illinois Air National Guard fighter pilot acted shamefully and arrogantly when he ignored an order to hold fire and dropped a bomb that killed four Canadian soldiers in 2002, an Air Force general has ruled.
Maj. Harry Schmidt was found guilty of dereliction of duty in the friendly fire disaster in Afghanistan. Lt. Gen. Bruce Carlson, the 8th Air Force commander at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, issued a scathing reprimand of Schmidt and ordered him to forfeit two months' pay -- $5,672.
"You acted shamefully on 17 April 2002 over Tarnak Farms, Afghanistan, exhibiting arrogance and a lack of flight discipline," Carlson wrote in the reprimand, released Tuesday.
The general blasted Schmidt, a former Navy Top Gun instructor, for failing to heed another pilot, his ''flight lead,'' who warned "make sure it's not friendlies." Schmidt also ignored an Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft controller's direction to "stand by" and later to "hold fire," Carlson said.
Four Canadians were killed and eight were wounded when Schmidt radioed that he was rolling his F-16 in self-defense and dropped a 500-pound laser-guided bomb on the troops as they conducted a live-fire exercise at night. Schmidt argued that he was not briefed that Canadians were practicing war maneuvers outside Kandahar and that he thought they were enemies firing at him and his flight leader, William Umbach.
Umbach resigned last June and was given a letter of reprimand for command failures.
Schmidt, 38, appeared before Carlson last Thursday to present his case, but the general was unconvinced. The written materials the pilot gave the general only served to "illustrate the degree to which you lacked flight discipline," he wrote.
The general also accused Schmidt of lying about the reasons he engaged the target after he was told to hold fire.
"You had the right to remain silent, but not the right to lie," Carlson wrote.
And the general criticized Schmidt for failing to express remorse about the deaths of the Canadians, whom Carlson described as "our staunch allies."
"In fact, you were obviously angry that the United States had dared to question your actions," he said.
Schmidt even launched his own Web site, harryschmidt.org, defending his actions and urging supporters to demand that their elected representatives ''stand up for Major Schmidt.''
Schmidt and his lawyer, Charles W. Gittins, could not be reached for comment. Schmidt was given until next Monday to appeal the punishment.
Last month, Schmidt entered a deal with the Air Force allowing him to appear before Carlson in a non-judicial hearing instead of going before a more serious court-martial. He was allowed to serve in the Illinois Air National Guard for three more years until he retires, but he cannot fly. Yet he will continue to receive his flight-grade pay, his attorney has said.
Joyce Clooney, the grandmother of Pvt. Richard Green of Nova Scotia, said she was pleased with the discipline.
"I can look at Ricky's picture on the wall and say, 'Ricky, justice was done,'" she said.
Clooney did not want Schmidt to serve any time behind bars, but was glad he will no longer fly for the military.
"I feel he got a good going over and he deserves it," she said. "He was trying to put the blame on someone else."

 

[researchok]

your point?

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! ResearchOK

I wasn't trying to make any particular point.
Perhaps I posted these two links of interesting stories
to the wrong conference?
I'm new here .... is there a separate Iraq War conference?

Calm

 

[researchok]

Not that Im aware of, but you could start a new thread.

 

[Numure]

Yes, the marxist websites are a bastion ot truth and reality.

No doubt the citizens of the former USSR and Eastern Europe miss their old regimes and reliable 'news sources'.

It matters not a whit how Iraq got paid for its oil-- euros or dollars. Learn about it-- called 'spot prices'.

By the way, no Iraqi oil reserves have been privatized.

Look that up, too.

Actually, Marxist.com, is mostly North Americans, and Western Europeans. I was a marxist-leninist in my days of University :wink:

 

[researchok]

LOL....Im really laughing hard now-- when I was in school, I toyed with marxism too....ah to be young!

My turning point was a trip to eastern Europe.

Lets just say I discovered cold water.

 

[Numure]

heh I went to Eastern Europe as well. Liked it though Wasnt in the days of Communism I must say... Though I went to Yugoslavia before it became democratic. Great people... incredibly racist though :S

I'm a socialist now a days. A great man once said - "The most compasionate people, we're Marxists when young adults". Makes more sense in french, still holds its meaning in english

 

[researchok]

yes, it does hold its meaning.

I was in eastern europe both before and after 91...

cant speak for yugoslavia-- I wasnt there. I can agree though that racsicm was pretty common throught the region.

I am probably more liberal on social issues, more conservative on fiscal issues.

Foreign policy wise, Id have to say Im a realist, in the sense that with little exception, confrontation and adversarial positions rarely work.

Plus ca change, plus ca reste la meme...

 

[Bushanti]

"My referance to Oh Canada was in response to an earlier poster who had complained about the US pledge of allegiance-- whose words are equivalent to Oh Canada. No more, no less."

Duh, RESEARCHOK, that would be me.

Would you mind too terribly if I referred to you as a tad myopic or obtuse or both? Judging from your inane (not to be mistaken for funny--you are NEVER funny) responses, I can clearly understand your proclivity for the American way. You don't read, and what you read, you clearly do not understand. But, let me repeat what I alluded to in an earlier post. You've clearly made the right decision to live in the United States where you are so eminently qualified to reside. Now, of course, you CAN return to this country, but I entreat you on my bended arthritic knee, stay put. Rejoice in your obtuseness. You're precisely the type that Junior is counting on. Don't let the boy down. Tell me, do you qualify for the draft? I do so hope that one day you'll be able to have that total American experience. Ooooooo, doesn't it just send Stars and Stripes shivers up your spine :]

 

[moghrabi]

Bushanti,

I have to admit I like your style when posting. Keep it up. We need a little humor in here. I also agree that Researchoj is very obtuse and hope they one day draft him to see the horror of war. Amen.

 

[researchok]

Hmm.

I don't read.

Well, if you're referring to reading mindless drivel, you're right. I avoid it like the plague.

I find it interesting that you insist on ad hominum attacks rather than discuss the issues. One can reasonably surmise your're ill equipped to discuss the issues.

Then again, I cant really say Id expected anything else.

People in this forum are, for the most part, thoughtful and civil.

By your words and demenaor, you deem yourself ill informed and irrelevant to meaningful exchange.

 

[researchok]

Bushanti,

I have to admit I like your style when posting. Keep it up. We need a little humor in here. I also agree that Researchoj is very obtuse and hope they one day draft him to see the horror of war. Amen.

LOLOL

Thats good, moghrabi.

Brilliant.

 

[moghrabi]

I know I am brilliant. You need a little of that my son.

 

[researchok]

LOLOL

youre too funny! really!!

But its a good trait tobe able to poke fun at yourself--really!

 

[moghrabi]

thanks for saying Thay I am really funny. We agree there. But somehow you missed the point. I was making fun of you.

LOL

So now you have Bushanti to make her believe in your version of world events. I wish you luck. I don't think you are gioing to convice a lot of people.

 

[researchok]

Actually, you misread my post. You missed the point.

When you referred to yourself as brilliant.

I said you knew how to poke fun at yourself.

 

[moghrabi]

I do not miss your posts. I look forward to them and read them. This way I see how ignorant you are.

 

[researchok]

Well, Im glad.

No doubt about it, youre an expert on ignorant.