Bush Bombs Iran Next - Will use Nukes

[I think not]

Re: RE: Bush Bombs Iran Next

of course not only by american interventions
as a reaction to very real right wing repression-- domestic
and just plain exploitation
my query was why do you take exception to the latin american case--
could it be that american interventions-- but not only american interventions have significantly contributed to radicalisation of the middle east

Of course it has, did I ever say otherwise? If you think I have, you're not paying attention. I single out Latin America, because to a much lesser degree it wasn't a cold war theatre. you see cortez, or is it cortezzz, to every action there is a reaction and to every reaction there is a reason behind it. The Middle East was a cold war battle ground, I know the left just loves to villify the US and its actions in the Middle East, but it always, almost without failure, seems to omit the flip side of the coin.

for example the USs--unequivacol support of isreal-- to the detriment of the palestinians

The US didn't get involved with Israel until long after the Soviet Union set foot in Egypt and Syria, you should know this. There was friction within the Truman administration whether or not to support Israel or the Arabs.The US didn't provide assistance to Israel even when the five armies of the Arab states attacked Israel one day after the UN approved Israel as a state.

or supporting the repressive shah of iran

Cold war era, unfortunate but that's what it is.

or supporting the taliban against the soviets

Read above.

or supporting saddam against iran

Read above

or supporting the saud royal family- i mean is saudi-- a democrasy
doesnt look like one

Even Canada supports Saudi Arabia, yes militarily.

could the mighty US perhaps thru its influence turn saudi into a democrasy--- without firing a bullet--- does it want to,...

I dunno if it "wants" to, I don't know if it "can" without military intervention, the same argument can be posed of the "Peoples Socialist Republic" of Libya.

of course no one is innocent here
but come on-- nuking iran..
that would freak the world out
even if its towards industrial targets

Nuking Iran isn't an option, but allowing Iran to build nuclear weapons isn't an option either.

it would accelerate the proliferation of nukes worldwide

And this is why Iran must never obtain nuclear weapons, especially since they have stated they will use them against Israel.

 

[cortezzz]

what do you think would happen if iran got nukes before the states stopped them---
you really think that iran would nuke isreal--- a nuclear power itself--
that talk of their leadership is rhetoric-- and their leadership is crap-- i agree
but then again---americas leadership right now is also crap pure crap

but agian why would they REALLY nuke isreal---
it would be suicide----

you think that this iran-- nuking isreal scenario would be the ultimate suicide attack......

come on and show some compassion for the persians and arabs--the common folk-- they are as much --hermanos-- as the latin americans

 

[Johnny Utah]

One possibility why Iran wants Nukes is to be able to crack down on their own people the same way China did "1989 at Tiinamen Square" using the Nukes as leverage against the West who might have ideas of interfering.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Bush Bombs Iran Next - Will use Nukes

what do you think would happen if iran got nukes before the states stopped them---
you really think that iran would nuke isreal--- a nuclear power itself--
that talk of their leadership is rhetoric-- and their leadership is crap-- i agree
but then again---americas leadership right now is also crap pure crap

Yes, America's leadership right now is pure crap, I totally agree. Bush has no semblance of diplomacy or even a flicker of concern for any ally (in contrast to his father). But, that sin't to say he isn't right on a couple of issues, including Iran obtaining nukes.

but agian why would they REALLY nuke isreal---
it would be suicide----

Suicide doesn't appear to be a problem with extremists in the Middle East, haven't you noticed?

you think that this iran-- nuking isreal scenario would be the ultimate suicide attack......

It may very well be, but what if they believe their purpose (which extremists do by the way) is to "wipe Israel off the map" and they actually think a good portion of Iran would survive to justify the elimination of the zionists. Ever consider that?

come on and show some compassion for the persians and arabs--the common folk-- they are as much --hermanos-- as the latin americans

I have every compassion for people all over the world that are pawns to politics, Arabs, Africans, Canadians, Americans, Christians, Muslims, everybody without exception. That doesn't mean however I will get blinded by an obvious threat.

I mean seriously cortezzz, you're not by no means a stupid person, Iran has been under worse regimes, like Khomeini for example, the US cutoff diplomatic relations and has been observing them. What has changed all these years that the US suddenly shows an interest towards Iran.......nukes.

I've said it before, and I will repeat myself, there is no such thing as being "friends" between countries, there are only "interests". The interests of the US in the Middle East aligns itself with certain states, for better or for worse. We can debate the morality of the situation in one brief statement, you are probably 100% correct, but we do not live in moral world, reality is somewhat different.

When the left drops the hypocrisy of their skewed morality, that's when I will start to listen, again. Until that time comes, I have yet to hear anything new.

 

[cortezzz]

when the---- interest---- becomes building a competative but fair, productive , equitable, peacefull and lawfull international order-- when you see that as the interest--- and a vital one---then you might catch a glimpse as to where we are coming from----naive maybe but perhaps ----- hopefull

its an existentialist type of situation--
forgive the cliche
the world is what we make it
it isnt NESSESARILY have to be as amoral as you say between nation states
or---- maybe we dont have the power to make it just

morality between nation states exists---it isnt just --
interests----

the attacks of 911 were a moral outrage
every much as shock awe

anyway-----
what exactly is going on here on this forum
what can any side here possible achieve
what INFLUENCE can anyone of us have to bring
about the goals --the perhaps ultimately common goals the both sides have-
what can be done-- actionwise

maybe its pretty close to NADA

and to think that all the time ive spent typing on here
on this forum i
could have learned a dozen complex classical guitar pieces

what a waste

 

[aeon]

I suppose the "correct" side in your mind is Iran's side?

You too want to eliminate Israel Beaver?

Saner commentary here

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010951.php#comments

Nobody in iran, have said they want to eliminate israel, it is the west media who came up with this story, because the leader of iraan made a speech in front of a university student, and was about "" A world withouth Zionist""

 

[aeon]

Comments attributed to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian President, saying he wanted to see Israel "wiped off the map" were taken out of context, according to his foreign minister.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F497A302-79E2-46D7-9416-DBC764F69F9B.htm

 

[Toro]

RE: Bush Bombs Iran Next

And when Bush's press secretary says that "Bush talking to God" was taken out of context, you don't believe him.

 

[fuzzylogix]

This is only an option to use Nuclear bunker busters, as the U.S. Military already has bunker busters that could do the job just as good if it comes to this option in the first place.

Are these bunker busters "just as good" at getting the job done the way "smart bombs" are just as good at getting the job done?

 

[I think not]

Nobody in iran, have said they want to eliminate israel, it is the west media who came up with this story, because the leader of iraan made a speech in front of a university student, and was about "" A world withouth Zionist""

I see, was it all the media? Or just the western media, because according to Al Jazeera that's what they said;

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/15E6BF77-6F91-46EE-A4B5-A3CE0E9957EA.htm

and then, they "clarified" it, 5 months later;

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F497A302-79E2-46D7-9416-DBC764F69F9B.htm

So who is it you believe here aeon, just so we have the record straight, is it the Iranian foreign minister or Al Jazeera?

 

[I think not]

This is only an option to use Nuclear bunker busters, as the U.S. Military already has bunker busters that could do the job just as good if it comes to this option in the first place.

Are these bunker busters "just as good" at getting the job done the way "smart bombs" are just as good at getting the job done?

Yes, considering that carpet bombing Iraq could of cost the military 5 times less, I would say the smart bombs were rather efficient.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Bush Bombs Iran Next

That's corporate efficiency ITN it's not the same as the real thing.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Bush Bombs Iran Next - Will use Nukes

when the---- interest---- becomes building a competative but fair, productive , equitable, peacefull and lawfull international order-- when you see that as the interest--- and a vital one---then you might catch a glimpse as to where we are coming from----naive maybe but perhaps ----- hopefull

When you show a glimpse of applying the same standards in all situations rather than being selective, then perhaps you will understand what I mean.

its an existentialist type of situation--
forgive the cliche
the world is what we make it
it isnt NESSESARILY have to be as amoral as you say between nation states
or---- maybe we dont have the power to make it just

When humanity changes its ways, then it will be different, stick around a few hundred years.

morality between nation states exists---it isnt just --
interests----

No, morality doesn't exist between nation states, expand on that if you would and explain to me how it does.

the attacks of 911 were a moral outrage
every much as shock awe

Nonsense, 9/11 was a fabrication of the "evil empire", didn't you know that?

anyway-----
what exactly is going on here on this forum
what can any side here possible achieve
what INFLUENCE can anyone of us have to bring
about the goals --the perhaps ultimately common goals the both sides have-
what can be done-- actionwise

maybe its pretty close to NADA

and to think that all the time ive spent typing on here
on this forum i
could have learned a dozen complex classical guitar pieces

what a waste

To convince one side of the understandings of the other, you would have to change the entire mindset of the individual. I have had my mind changed, it took years, but I did it.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Bush Bombs Iran Next

A wash is as good as a change.

 

[fuzzylogix]

This is only an option to use Nuclear bunker busters, as the U.S. Military already has bunker busters that could do the job just as good if it comes to this option in the first place.

Are these bunker busters "just as good" at getting the job done the way "smart bombs" are just as good at getting the job done?

Yes, considering that carpet bombing Iraq could of cost the military 5 times less, I would say the smart bombs were rather efficient.

Could you give me some statistics on the efficiency?
If you could include the false positive/ false negative rates which maybe we could label as the "oops got the civilians" / "oops missed the bad guys" ratio....

 

[I think not]

Could you give me some statistics on the efficiency?
If you could include the false positive/ false negative rates which maybe we could label as the "oops got the civilians" / "oops missed the bad guys" ratio....

You need statistics between carpet bombing and "smart bombs"? History isn't good enough for you? Carpet bombing is dropping bombs on everything without discrimination over a relatiely large area. Look at pictures of Dresden before and after and do the same with Baghdad.

 

[aeon]

Nobody in iran, have said they want to eliminate israel, it is the west media who came up with this story, because the leader of iraan made a speech in front of a university student, and was about "" A world withouth Zionist""

I see, was it all the media? Or just the western media, because according to Al Jazeera that's what they said;

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/15E6BF77-6F91-46EE-A4B5-A3CE0E9957EA.htm

and then, they "clarified" it, 5 months later;

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F497A302-79E2-46D7-9416-DBC764F69F9B.htm

So who is it you believe here aeon, just so we have the record straight, is it the Iranian foreign minister or Al Jazeera?

Good question, why believing foreign minister from governement??

i tend not believing governement, especially our governement , look at the war in iraq, how many lies they told us, you may be right, but, i always understood it the way, they wanted to get rid of "Zionist"just like the way your governement wantst to get rid of muslim terrorist, Zionist are the extremist , most of the jew around the world are even against them, so the iranies just act like your govevernement do with them.

 

[I think not]

Good question, why believing foreign minister from governement??

i tend not believing governement, especially our governement , look at the war in iraq, how many lies they told us, you may be right, but, i always understood it the way, they wanted to get rid of "Zionist"just like the way your governement wantst to get rid of muslim terrorist, Zionist are the extremist , most of the jew around the world are even against them, so the iranies just act like your govevernement do with them.

The point I was trying to make is that it wasn't the western media saying this, as you can see Al Jazeera published a similar article. I have no doubt Bush lied about Iraq, I don't believe him as far as I can throw him, but don't sit there and tell me the Iranian government has a halo over their heads.

 

[aeon]

Good question, why believing foreign minister from governement??

i tend not believing governement, especially our governement , look at the war in iraq, how many lies they told us, you may be right, but, i always understood it the way, they wanted to get rid of "Zionist"just like the way your governement wantst to get rid of muslim terrorist, Zionist are the extremist , most of the jew around the world are even against them, so the iranies just act like your govevernement do with them.

The point I was trying to make is that it wasn't the western media saying this, as you can see Al Jazeera published a similar article. I have no doubt Bush lied about Iraq, I don't believe him as far as I can throw him, but don't sit there and tell me the Iranian government has a halo over their heads.

Crazy extremist they are yes, but having crazy extremist as leaders is something very popular in the west, look who is charge of canada right now, look who is in charge of your country, look at ariel sharon records, look at blair,dont be hypocryte on this.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Funny you should mention Tony Blair Aeon. He runs the Labour party, aka= the left of center party. The Tories haven't been in since Major my friend.