Burning the Canadian Flag?

[I think not]

Well if you burn the flaf your attacking the symbol aren't you??

Let me try and make my point of view easy for you. Nationalists oppose flag burning, patriots are all for it. I realize there is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism, but the differences exist.

 

[Simpleton]

Re: RE: Burning the Canadian Flag?

Everyone can burn the flag. Doesn't bother me. I'm not a nationalist. I also, don't mind, however is some 85-year-old war vet takes out a baseball bat and bashes the flag burner's head in.

I wouldn't burn our flag ot of respect for those vets who might care about the issue....not out of respect for a symbol.

The 'maple leaf' is an ironic symbol. The maple tree doesn't even grow in 80% of Canada. No surprise it's native to southern Ontario/Quebec but not Alberta. I wonder if folks in Ontario would like a lodgepole pine on the flag instead of a maple? They'd think it ridiculous.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your logic. Canada didn't have a flag during the great wars. Canadian soldiers fought for the queen.

I've spoken to several retired Canadian military men who feel virtually no loyalty to this country. After years of being neglected by their government though, who could blame them?

 

[Mogz]

Nobody has died for a flag, they have died for what it represents. Flags change with time.

Exactly my point. If you burn the Flag, regardless of if it was the old Red Ensign of Canada, or the Maple Leaf today, or some fancy new one after i'm long dead and burried, it doesn't change the fact you're disrespecting everything about that Nation.

 

[Mogz]

Re: RE: Burning the Canadian Flag?

Everyone can burn the flag. Doesn't bother me. I'm not a nationalist. I also, don't mind, however is some 85-year-old war vet takes out a baseball bat and bashes the flag burner's head in.

I wouldn't burn our flag ot of respect for those vets who might care about the issue....not out of respect for a symbol.

The 'maple leaf' is an ironic symbol. The maple tree doesn't even grow in 80% of Canada. No surprise it's native to southern Ontario/Quebec but not Alberta. I wonder if folks in Ontario would like a lodgepole pine on the flag instead of a maple? They'd think it ridiculous.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your logic. Canada didn't have a flag during the great wars. Canadian soldiers fought for the queen.

I've spoken to several retired Canadian military men who feel virtually no loyalty to this country. After years of being neglected by their government though, who could blame them?

Uh, yeah we did have a flag:

That was Canada's Flag before the Maple Leaf.

P.S. They would have been fighting for the KING during both World Wars. Then again, i'm sure you already knew that.

 

[I think not]

Nobody has died for a flag, they have died for what it represents. Flags change with time.

Exactly my point. If you burn the Flag, regardless of if it was the old Red Ensign of Canada, or the Maple Leaf today, or some fancy new one after i'm long dead and burried, it doesn't change the fact you're disrespecting everything about that Nation.

Here Mogzy, every year this topic comes up, this is what I feel about it:

There is a difference in nationalism and patritotism, sometimes it even becomes difficult to see any difference at all. It all depends where ones loyalty is. Both can be loyal to ones country, but the object of their affection differs.

Nationalism is loyal to a countrys institutions and its trappings while patriotism defines ones loyalty to a countrys principles and ideals. When times are good, you cannot distinguish the two, but when times become fiery, you see both carefully go in opposite directions.

I cannot speak for Canadians (obviously), but if I were to try and give an example of nationalism and patriotism I would can do so by the new vote that will on the Senate floor after Independance Day. Nationalists oppose flag burning because they love it and what to protect it, patriotism on the other hand supports flag burning because the flag represents American ideals and principles.

Fine line don't you think? Perhaps. But nonetheless, under no circumstances does nationalism or patriotism have any love for any government. Governments come and go. As long as your country remains based on the ideals on which they were founded, then you have every reason to love your country.

The current US administration is by no means representative of what the founding fathers had in mind ovewr 200 years ago, but the essence remains and neither Bush nor anyone else can take it away.

This is true for Canada, no single government can take away what the foundation of Canada is: A free country. There may be blips along the way, but the pursuit of democracy never ends, it is in fact a journey and not a destination.

Happy Canada Day up there

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=153561&highlight=patriotism+nationalism#153561

 

[Jersay]

Thanks for the link ITN.

 

[Simpleton]

Re: RE: Burning the Canadian

I've grown up always being told to respect a Nations flag, as it is a symbol of everything that Nation stands for. I myself, don't agree with burning of any flags, especially your own. Why would you burn your own National image? Are you that apathetic as to pride in your Nation? I sometimes feel I was born too late. I put a lot of stock in Nationalism and Patriotism, something that my generation seems completely devoid of. I joined the Army because I feel, in that organization, I can contribute to this Nation in a way few others can. I can stand up for what this Nation believes in, and ensure no harm comes to it, or what represents it, up to and including the Maple Leaf. I'm 23, still young by any stretch of the imagination, however I honestly think I sometimes put more faith in this Nation and our way of life than others twice my age. It honestly bothers me that somewhere over the last 50 years, our National identity has slowly began to decay. We once were a Nation of proud individuals, proud of our way of life, proud of what we stood for. These days people seem far too self-absorbed and utterly clueless as to what it means to be a Canadian. If you want to burn a flag, go ahead, but in doing so you dishonour that Nations heritage. If you burn your own flag, you dishonour not only your heritage, but everything your Nation stands for. My 19 cents on the issue.

We'll I'm not a nationalist like Mogz, but a flag is what makes an imprint on your country. Like the Dragon on the Wales Flag, or the Maple Leaf on Canada's flag. So it is a symbolic protest but to destroy someone's flag the especially yuorown is destroying apart of yourself.

(Hopefully people will stop burning the U.N flag now. :wink: )

I think the whole point of burning the flag, is to demonstrate that the flag is no longer representative of the will of the people. It's a statement that says the government is out of line, and that you reject their use of nationalistic symbols as validation for an act or objective that is not consistent with the people that comprise the nation.

A flag is really nothing more than a logo for a country. And in a time when governments are increasingly putting corporate interests ahead of the interests of the people, I think it is fair for people to reject the national logo of the corporation of the country of _________________. (Insert country name.)

 

[Jersay]

I think the whole point of burning the flag, is to demonstrate that the flag is no longer representative of the will of the people. It's a statement that says the government is out of line, and that you reject their use of nationalistic symbols as validation for an act or objective that is not consistent with the people that comprise the nation.

A flag is really nothing more than a logo for a country. And in a time when governments are increasingly putting corporate interests ahead of the interests of the people, I think it is fair for people to reject the national logo of the corporation of the country of _________________. (Insert country name.)

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[Simpleton]

Re: RE: Burning the Canadian Flag?

Everyone can burn the flag. Doesn't bother me. I'm not a nationalist. I also, don't mind, however is some 85-year-old war vet takes out a baseball bat and bashes the flag burner's head in.

I wouldn't burn our flag ot of respect for those vets who might care about the issue....not out of respect for a symbol.

The 'maple leaf' is an ironic symbol. The maple tree doesn't even grow in 80% of Canada. No surprise it's native to southern Ontario/Quebec but not Alberta. I wonder if folks in Ontario would like a lodgepole pine on the flag instead of a maple? They'd think it ridiculous.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your logic. Canada didn't have a flag during the great wars. Canadian soldiers fought for the queen.

I've spoken to several retired Canadian military men who feel virtually no loyalty to this country. After years of being neglected by their government though, who could blame them?

Uh, yeah we did have a flag:

That was Canada's Flag before the Maple Leaf.

P.S. They would have been fighting for the KING during both World Wars. Then again, i'm sure you already knew that.

Excuse my ignorance. We didn't have a "Canadian" flag during the great wars. We presently have only a queen. The inferrence was to the monarchy of England.

Not that I mind your nitpicking, however.

 

[Mogz]

Re: RE: Burning the Canadian Flag?

Everyone can burn the flag. Doesn't bother me. I'm not a nationalist. I also, don't mind, however is some 85-year-old war vet takes out a baseball bat and bashes the flag burner's head in.

I wouldn't burn our flag ot of respect for those vets who might care about the issue....not out of respect for a symbol.

The 'maple leaf' is an ironic symbol. The maple tree doesn't even grow in 80% of Canada. No surprise it's native to southern Ontario/Quebec but not Alberta. I wonder if folks in Ontario would like a lodgepole pine on the flag instead of a maple? They'd think it ridiculous.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your logic. Canada didn't have a flag during the great wars. Canadian soldiers fought for the queen.

I've spoken to several retired Canadian military men who feel virtually no loyalty to this country. After years of being neglected by their government though, who could blame them?

Uh, yeah we did have a flag:

That was Canada's Flag before the Maple Leaf.

P.S. They would have been fighting for the KING during both World Wars. Then again, i'm sure you already knew that.

Excuse my ignorance. We didn't have a "Canadian" flag during the great wars. We presently have only a queen. The inferrence was to the monarchy of England.

Not that I mind your nitpicking, however.

We didn't have a Canadian Flag? I just showed you a picture of it. That was Canada's Flag. Or does the fact it has the Union Jack in the corner somehow devalue it as a Nations flag? If so what about Australia:

Is that not the Australian Flag?

Or what about New Zealand:

I could go on and on.

 

[Simpleton]

Re: RE: Burning the Canadian Flag?

Everyone can burn the flag. Doesn't bother me. I'm not a nationalist. I also, don't mind, however is some 85-year-old war vet takes out a baseball bat and bashes the flag burner's head in.

I wouldn't burn our flag ot of respect for those vets who might care about the issue....not out of respect for a symbol.

The 'maple leaf' is an ironic symbol. The maple tree doesn't even grow in 80% of Canada. No surprise it's native to southern Ontario/Quebec but not Alberta. I wonder if folks in Ontario would like a lodgepole pine on the flag instead of a maple? They'd think it ridiculous.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your logic. Canada didn't have a flag during the great wars. Canadian soldiers fought for the queen.

I've spoken to several retired Canadian military men who feel virtually no loyalty to this country. After years of being neglected by their government though, who could blame them?

Uh, yeah we did have a flag:

That was Canada's Flag before the Maple Leaf.

P.S. They would have been fighting for the KING during both World Wars. Then again, i'm sure you already knew that.

Excuse my ignorance. We didn't have a "Canadian" flag during the great wars. We presently have only a queen. The inferrence was to the monarchy of England.

Not that I mind your nitpicking, however.

We didn't have a Canadian Flag? I just showed you a picture of it. That was Canada's Flag. Or does the fact it has the Union Jack in the corner somehow devalue it as a Nations flag? If so what about Australia:

Is that not the Australian Flag?

Or what about New Zealand:

I could go on and on.

Yes, Mogz, it is the Union Jack that does it for me. The ideals and principles of the nation? Which nation? Great Britain?

Canada didn't have a flag before the Maple Leaf. My opinion.

Just one more quick mention. I was born in Newfoundland, which was not even a part of Confederation during the great wars.

And, if I might continue, I'm against pledging allegiance to the Queen. I'm also opposed to the necessity for a Governor General, Royal Assent on federal legislation, and the present Senate has to go. I'm in favour of free votes in the Commons and electoral reform.

I suppose, in the view of some, I'm not a Canadian. Oh well.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Burning the Canadian

Canada didn't have a flag before the Maple Leaf. My opinion

What I was looking for. Thanks.

 

[Finder]

Basic libertarian belief on the left and the right is the right to do anything you wish as long as it does not directly or indirectly harm others (sorry mental harm caused by seeing the flag burn doesn't count).

 

[athabaska]

I'd rather burn the Queen than the flag. BBQ her to a crisp. (just kidding)

I recall the words of one old fellow who was a WW2 concentration camp survivor. to paraphrase.

"Whenever I see a flag, any flag, and hear a national anthem, any anthem, all I see is the Swastika and all I hear is 'Deutshchland uber Alles'.

Nationalism warps our view of the world and restrains us into self-limiting experiences.

 

[JonB2004]

What are your views on this, Since its such a Hot topic in the States right now, I am wondering how you feel about our Flag being melted?

It would tick me off if I saw someone burn a Canadian flag.

 

[I think not]

What are your views on this, Since its such a Hot topic in the States right now, I am wondering how you feel about our Flag being melted?

It would tick me off if I saw someone burn a Canadian flag.

And that's fine, question is do you support their right to burn it?

 

[JonB2004]

RE: Burning the Canadian

No, I do not support someone burning Canada's flag or the flag of any country.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Burning the Canadian

No, I do not support someone burning Canada's flag or the flag of any country.

I realize the First Amendment doesn't apply in Canada, but try and comprehend the meaning of the words:

"If there is a bedrock principle of the first amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."

 

[JonB2004]

RE: Burning the Canadian

Burning the flag of any country should be prohibited.

 

[I think not]

Well it fell on deaf ears, oh well I tried.