Britain in decline

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: Britain in decline

dumpthemonarchy said:
The moderators should eliminate most of the ridiculous posts above. They are way off the subject matter.

The US is in decline, not even being able to control a third rate country like Iraq. along with changing their reasons monthly for being there.

The UK is respectably in the middle of the pack. A major decision they have in the future is whether to drop the pound and select the Euro, then the US and it's buck may go in steep decline.

Why does the UK need two aircraft carriers?

You have to remember that only the US Navy is more powerful than the Royal navy.

Britain currently has 3 aircraft carriers - that's more than the rest of the EU combined. France has 1 (and that has a tendency to always break down and spends most of its time in refit), Italy has 1 and Germany doesn't have any at all.
 

darkbeaver

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Blackleaf said:
cortez said:
in order to maintain competition for the bid.

A hundred years ago Great Britain was the world's only Superpower. It had led the Industrial Revolution. Its empire ruled a quarter of the human race. London was the financial capital of the world. Most people still believed the popular lyric "We don't want to fight, but, by jingo, if we do; we've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too!"

.

And soon it will be the financial capital of the world again.

Also, foreign companies taking over British companies is a GOOD thing for Britain. It shows how OPEN our economy is.

Whereas the French, Germans, Italians and Spanish have all been slammed by experts around the world for their closed borders and too much protectionism, Britain has been praised for its open economy.

It's one of the things that puts the Great into Great Britain.

The last time Britain was the financial capital of the world it lost it's empire, one of the leading causes of empirial decline is a reliance on financial services instead of manufacturing. Your second point of pride an (open economy) is also a leading indicator of national decline. There are five indicators of decline commonally thought to be primarily responsible for all imperial decline you are ingaged in three of them. If you don't wake up you'll snuff yourselves for good this time.
 

Blackleaf

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London to become financial capital of the world.


The Sunday Times March 12, 2006


London to steal Wall St crown
Richard Fletcher and David Smith



LONDON could overtake New York as the financial capital of the world, according to one of Wall Street’s most respected bankers.

James “Jimmy” Cayne, chairman of Bear Stearns, makes the prediction in today’s Sunday Times.

“London is no longer the second city. Right now it is up there with New York,” he said. “Could it overtake New York as the financial centre of the world? It has a shot.”

Bear Stearns’ international revenues — the vast majority of which are generated in London — have almost doubled over the past two years, increasing from £501m to £970m.

“The numbers speak for themselves. The last two years were sensational,” said Cayne, a Wall Street veteran.

He argues that London has stolen a march on other European rivals. “There are many, many successful people in this town. Nobody minds getting on a plane to London these days. It’s exciting and the restaurants are great.”

His comments come as the London Stock Exchange is fending off bid interest from New York. On Friday it rejected a £2.4 billion bid from the Nasdaq exchange, which valued it at 950p a share. The New York Stock Exchange, Nasdaq’s rival, is expected to launch a counter-bid.

London is rated ahead of New York in a recent survey of market participants, and outscores the Big Apple in turnover in many markets, including foreign exchange. New York’s strength mainly rests on domestic US equity and bond trading, but that is being eroded. Treasury officials hinted that Gordon Brown, who made a speech in the City last month, would be bringing forward measures in his March 22 budget to ensure London’s continued rise and that it benefits from the growing importance of China, India and Middle East oil wealth.

Meanwhile, one of America’s principal providers of cash settlements to victims of last year’s devastating hurricane Katrina in New Orleans is floating in London later this year.

Peachtree Settlement Funding, which awards lump-sum payments to clients in exchange for a share of their expected future cashflows, is understood to have appointed Bear Stearns and Collins Stewart to lead an initial public offering on the Alternative Investment Market. The float is expected to value the firm at up to £400m.

thetimesonline.com
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And, just in time for the 2012 Olympics and London becoming the world's financial capital, it is building many skyscrapers that put the rest of Europe to shame (Paris's only "skyscraper" is the 19th Century Eiffel Tower).




Another view - http://www.skyscrapernews.com/lbt10a.jpg

London Bridge Tower (or the Shard of Glass) - completion 2008 and will be Europe's tallest skyscraper.


Even a BENT skyscraper is to be built. It is on the far right of the picture. The Vinoly Tower












London's futuristic skyline in around 2012 once some of the skyscrapers are up.


And most of these skyscrapers are not even standing yet, so they are being built in quick time. In just a few years, the whole skyline of the great city will be transformed.
 

Blackleaf

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Britain could really be proud of its widely open, free-market economy.

More UK firms in foreign hands


Ruth Sunderland, Daiy Mail Deputy City Editor
30 January 2006


The stock market is convulsed by a mania for mergers that is likely to result in a whole swathe of our industrial heritage passing into foreign hands.

Our big companies are considered so desirable by overseas players that they are fighting over them. A knockabout bid battle built up last week for ports and shipping group P&O - whose history dates back to the days of Empire - with suitors from Dubai and Singapore vying for control.

Even the engine of Anglo-Saxon capitalism itself, the London Stock Exchange, is fending off a £1.5billion bid from Australian investment bank Macquarie and a proposal from Paris-based Euronext is on the back burner.

Gases firm BOC, one of our last remaining big industrial companies, is also under siege, fending off a £7.6billion overture from German counterpart Linde last week.

Unlike other countries, Britain does not put up barriers against foreign bidders - in fact, quite the reverse.

As a result, overseas predators with bulging wallets have been only too keen to come here on shopping trips.

In the first three quarters of last year alone, foreign firms splashed out £33bn on buying British rivals - up from £29.9bn the year before. The attractions of UK firms include respected corporate regulation, an acceptable tax regime and relatively flexible labour laws - though the last two factors are diminishing under New Labour. FTSE company shares are also attractively valued compared to foreign markets.


A clutch of other big names are also about to be swallowed up. They include mobile phones group O2, taken over by Telefonica of Spain, and glass maker Pilkington, whose bosses are about to capitulate to Japan's Nippon Sheet Glass.

Many in the City would argue foreign takeovers are good for Britain - though dealmakers may just be influenced by the boost to their bonuses from increased merger activity. The swarm of predators is certainly pushing share values skywards. Takeover fever sent the FTSE 100 index of leading shares up more than 114 points to end on 5786.8 last week.

That is good news in the short term for all of us with money in pension funds and endowment policies. But the more important question for UK plc is how well the new owners will manage the business in the long term.

Most deals are constructed for the benefit of big City fund managers, not mere Sids. As small shareholders in Abbey National found when the British mortgage bank was taken over by Spain's Grupo Santander, overseas ownership can mean being landed with tax hassles and inconvenient handfuls of shares in a foreign currency.

And how many private investors could afford to attend the annual meeting if the shindig is held in Madrid, not Manchester? Employees and pension fund members might have good cause to worry. A foreign parent company is far more likely to shed jobs and cut pension costs in Britain than at home.

Of course, it is not all one way traffic. British companies like HSBC, Barclays, BP, GlaxoSmithKline and Unilever have also been big buyers abroad. But while we do nothing to prevent outsiders snaffling our prime industrial assets, the French, Germans and Italians disdain foreign bidders.

France shields its 'strategic' companies and has been given a month to justify its stance or face legal action from Brussels. The EU has been forced to take action against Italy over an attempt by the central bank to block foreign bank bids and in Germany, prominent politician Franz Muntefering last year described overseas financiers as 'locusts'.

In the US - the home of free markets - protectionist politicians helped scupper a bid from China's state oil company CNOOC for California's Unocal. By contrast, when Chinese automaker Nanjing took over collapsed car maker MG Rover, our government welcomed them.

One of the great strengths of our economy is its openness.
But we must have reservations about the wholesale pillaging of our stock market. And if we are to be open, so should other countries.


thisismoney.co.uk
 

Blackleaf

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darkbeaver said:
The last time Britain was the financial capital of the world it lost it's empire, one of the leading causes of empirial decline is a reliance on financial services instead of manufacturing..

That means every European and North American country is in decline, as every European and North American is roughly two-thirds services and one-third manufacturing. And Britain has a larger manufacturing sector than the US and France, and isn't far behind Canada -

Canada -
industry: 29.1%
services: 68.7% (2005 est.)

Germany -
industry: 28.6%
services: 70.3% (2005 est.)

Britain -
industry: 26%
services: 72.9% (2005 est.)

France -
industry: 21.4%
services: 76.1% (2005 est.)

United States -
industry: 20.7%
services: 78.3% (2005 est.)

Source: CIA World Factbook
 

darkbeaver

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Your source is unreliable and inaccurate BlackLeaf, the US manufacturing is below 10%. And we are all in decline. Why would you believe the CIA's information about anything, they are the planets foremost liars
 

Toro

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darkbeaver said:
The last time Britain was the financial capital of the world it lost it's empire, one of the leading causes of empirial decline is a reliance on financial services instead of manufacturing. Your second point of pride an (open economy) is also a leading indicator of national decline. There are five indicators of decline commonally thought to be primarily responsible for all imperial decline you are ingaged in three of them. If you don't wake up you'll snuff yourselves for good this time.

Good Lord, what silliness.
 

Toro

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Re: RE: Britain in decline

darkbeaver said:
Your source is unreliable and inaccurate BlackLeaf, the US manufacturing is below 10%. And we are all in decline. Why would you believe the CIA's information about anything, they are the planets foremost liars

More like 14% there beaver, and still bigger than government.

http://www.bea.gov/bea/industry/gpotables/gpo_action.cfm?anon=389&table_id=12757&format_type=0

Darkbeaver - or at least people like him - argued 100 years ago that agriculture was the most important industry, and declining agriculture was a sign of economic decline.

They, of course, were wrong, just like beaver is wrong.
 

darkbeaver

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You're working in a bubble Toro, running on credit, and running out of oil. 10% and dropping like a rock. Tell us about your oil ideas Toro I find them as funny as the rest of the stuff you come up with, comeon I need a laugh tonight. Tell us about nonexistant saveing, thats a good one. Ya can't eat financial services Toro and the paper makes poor cloths.
 

darkbeaver

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You can make a very fine rebar soup

1 large turnips finly diced
3 medium onions nicely sliced
5 potatoes chunked
2 kg pigmeat
6 cups barley
1 meter rebar cut to fit pot
dash of salt
pinch of pepper
pinch of thyme
some rosemary
1 litre HP sauce
boil till rebar soft
serves six
From Nova Scotia hardtimes cookbook
 

Blackleaf

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Re: RE: Britain in decline

darkbeaver said:
Your source is unreliable and inaccurate BlackLeaf, the US manufacturing is below 10%. And we are all in decline.
I think you need to go back to school.
 

Blackleaf

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Britain is so "in decline" that thousands of Frenchmen are desperate to come and live here, because their country is dying.

There are now more French people living in Britain than British people living in France, and 70% of them live in London, the biggest and richest city in Europe.


Young exiles embrace the Anglo model

15,000 French people arrive in Britain per YEAR, tempted by UK job market

Ashley Seager and Angela Balakrishnan
Saturday April 8, 2006
The Guardian


Vibrant London - It's building a new futuristic skyline and has many well-paid jobs. A Mecca for the citizens of grotty France.


While the French continue to stage mass protests against changes to their employment laws, hundreds of thousands of their compatriots have voted with their feet and come to work in Britain.

Figures now suggest that - contrary to popular perception - there may be more French people living in Britain than there are Brits in France. Since 1999, about 15,000 French people have moved to Britain each year while 10,000 British have gone the other way, according to figures from the UK's Office for National Statistics.

About two-thirds of the French moving to Britain are under 36, and three-quarters are single. They are often qualified mathematicians or engineers. Many head for well-paid work in London. "Salaries are higher than in France and can grow quickly," said Samuel Remy, a French man working for the travel group Travco. "Pay rises every year and bonuses depending on your performance are generally the case. This has to be set against the cost of living of London - above all housing and transport."

France's youth unemployment rate is around 23%, rising to 50% in young immigrant communities - a crucial factor behind last year's riots in many areas. France's overall unemployment rate tops 9%, compared with 5% in the UK.

Besides this, the British economy has been reasonably successful at creating new jobs - 2.4 million of them since 1997 - and jobs in the UK tend to be better paid. Wages have been rising strongly in Britain for the past decade, but have stagnated in France.

Dynamic

The French consulate in London thinks there may be 300,000 to 400,000 French living in Britain today. The Foreign Office estimates that 300,000 British are living permanently in France, excluding second-home owners.

But while Brits in France are widely dispersed across the country, about 70% of French in the UK are in Greater London, according to the French consulate. Of those, about half work in financial services in the City.

Céline Abadie, 28, came to London two months ago and within weeks was offered three jobs, of which she chose one at a PR firm, NewsMarket. "Right now in France the market is damp for jobs. I have friends who have been looking for work for six months," she said. "I love London - it's so dynamic and cosmopolitan. Because of my job, I don't plan to leave here for at least five years. Friends told me that Paris is too narrow for me. The quality of life here is good. You can do a lot and enjoy a nice life."

Arnaud Chevalier, an academic at the London School of Economics, agreed. "I can only speak for academics," he said. "But we think the standard of work is higher in the UK: conditions are better; pay is better. These are the main reasons for people coming here. French universities are grotty."

The typical experience of French people in Britain is that they can find work quickly and in jobs not necessarily related to the subjects they studied, as is common among young Britons. In France, by contrast, graduates expect to find work in the field they studied.

"What I really like about the UK job market is it's more open in that they do not look so much at your schooling but value your past experience. It's also closer to the job market in the US for students trying to find work globally," said François Desmonts, head of the French Club at the London Business School.

Insecurity

Pascale Dauptain, 30, a business development director at FBC Media, said she loved living in London and now considered it home.

"It's dynamic and extremely international. I think people come here to make their way and find jobs. If the job's not right you can move very quickly. It's not even comparable to Paris. I recommend moving here all the time to my friends."

Back in France, the prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, is trying to introduce a "first job contract" law, under which employers can dismiss young workers.

Many French are up in arms about it. They focus on the job insecurity, rather than the chance of getting employment that might otherwise not be there.

French people, especially those in secure jobs, love to praise the French "social model" and deride what they see as Britain's "Anglo-Saxon model", with its "hire and fire" labour market.

But for the French working in Britain, the new law is an irrelevance. "To be honest, the recent events in France about this new work contract that many French people are rejecting do not encourage me to return to France to work," says Mr Remy at Travco.

guardian.co.uk
 

aperion

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I suppose we could look at the EU as an economic entity rather than as individual nation states-given the fact that it so easilty allows mobility of the workforce. Im referring to all those French nationals seeking employment in London for example. Thats one of the postive factors about the union-- the French unemployment problem solves the British labour shortage problem -- for example--- and as an off shoot further socially integrates europe as a consequence of intermigration. The French can further add to the diversity of London perhaps even settle down there marry a brit have kids who identify with britain AND france thereby decreaseing the historical tension between the 2 states. I suppose its all good.
 

Finder

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Blackleaf, why compair Canada to the UK. I sure as hell don't. When you consider the UK was a superpower when Canada was no more then a handfull of colonialists... well being on almost the same level of the UK now kinda makes you wonder how fair the UK has droped since then.