Baird Lambasts Proponents of Palestinian UN Bid

[Machjo]

No diversion Machjo, it is an observation and one that I feel is highly accurate.

To propose equal treatment for all religions is anti-catholic. Check.

You live in a bubble that is cut-off from all reality... Hell, I got a real good laugh at the UN document that lambastes Canada for this inequality and I got to thinking why there was no mention of the cultural 'inequalities' recognized in other nations that have a system in place that was established hundreds of years ago... Funny, no mention in that UN document that there should be full funding for Christian schools in Saudi Arabia or special schools in Palestine that service those of Jewish faith.... Yeah, that UN - great guys - all of 'em.

funny that. I don't see any mention of Canada's crime and policing issues in our health care bills either and vice versa. Maybe the reason tehre is no mention of other countries in that document I linked to is because the document in question deals specifically with the separate school issue? I don't know. Just sayin'.

So, with that in mind - and running with your equality BS - by definition, doesn't the public system discriminate against every other interest group by virtue of not recognizing their "right" to have publicly funded facilities?

In the context of granting that right to Catholics but not Jews for instance, yes. Of course the problem that be solved in one of two ways: remove this right to Catholics, or grant it to all. Either way the same principle applies: equal treatment for all under the constitution. What a novel idea eh.

Where are the stand-alone schools for families of same sex parents that desire to have recognition of their individual status? Maybe there are a few Wiccan families in your city that deserve a unique, publicly funded building, complete with a full complement of teachers, administrators and facility staff (all tax payer funded of course).

Absolutely. There are some comunities with small Catholic populations too, just as there are some with large Muslim populations. So why not solve the problem by having either one ssytem for all, a voucher programme, or some other solution that recognizes all equally?

Considering that many other countries and even Candian provinces have solved this problem, why is it that Ontarians as so incompetent in this matter?

How about it Machjo? Are you just as prepared to rail at the public system for the exact reasons you are angry with the Separate system, or do you just have a hate-on for all things Catholic?

It's not even the Catholic system per se that I have an issue with, but rather a special constitutional privilege granted to one religious community and not others. i really don't see how that can be so difficult to understand.

 

[Goober]

Nice diversion there. i challenge you to find one post of mine that opposes Catholicism beyond the specific context of the separate school system. Hell, my own mother is Catholic and I had attended the separate school system for most of my elementary education!

I've even proposed a Swedish-like school voucher system that would allow private Catholic schools to receive public funding based on parental demand, BUT on the same basis as any other school, public or private, regardless of religious affiliation. Sounds like the issue is not that I'm anti-Catholic, but rather that you might have some hidden motive to defend a privileged position.

How about one or even the both of you opening a thread on this topic.

 

[Machjo]

How about one or even the both of you opening a thread on this topic.

I actually see it as totally related to the OP issue of Baird's behaviour at the UN. You don't go on the world stage braggina bout some office for religious freedom when there is religious discrimination in our own constitution. It's just embarrassing.

 

[Goober]

I actually see it as totally related to the OP issue of Baird's behaviour at the UN. You don't go on the world stage braggina bout some office for religious freedom when there is religious discrimination in our own constitution. It's just embarrassing.

Not according to the SCOC - Live with it. Start a thread on the different issues -

 

[captain morgan]

How about one or even the both of you opening a thread on this topic.

This isn't the first time that a thread has gotten derailed and it doesn't mean that the thread morphs permanently... Hell, you've acted as conductor on many of these efforts.

That said, if you do insist on assessing blame, chat with Mr. Bigot and get him to peddle his discrimination in a separate thread, I'll gladly comment in that venue.

 

[CDNBear]

I actually see it as totally related to the OP issue of Baird's behaviour at the UN. You don't go on the world stage braggina bout some office for religious freedom when there is religious discrimination in our own constitution. It's just embarrassing.

Why are you still confused about the difference between freedom and discrimination?

All religions are free to practice in in Canada... = Freedom.

Every child in Canada receives a specific dollar value for their education regardless of their religion... = Equality.

Making Baird's speech accurate.

Your continued whining, just looks bigoted, and quite frankly, embarrassing yourself.

 

[Nationhood]

I actually see it as totally related to the OP issue of Baird's behaviour at the UN. You don't go on the world stage braggina bout some office for religious freedom when there is religious discrimination in our own constitution. It's just embarrassing.

Be fair. Canada - relative to all other countries - has religious freedom. If you're of a minority religion, life isn't as bad in Canada as it is elsewhere. I take qualms with funded Catholic school boards - which have a policy of discrimination - too, but that alone isn't enough to dismiss the fact Canada is pretty well off in terms of religious freedom.

What is inaccurate about his speech is Canada's apparent support for freedom elsewhere... all the time... whenever possible. This just invokes the 'we're peacekeepers and should have grand pride', when really, we haven't been in a peace keeping mission since Lester B. Pearson. There's numerous countries that having brutal totalitarian dictatorships, that we're heavily allied with - like Saudi Arabia or China. We're not as noble as this speech attempts illustrates.

Not to sidetrack the conversation, but if hypocrisy is bad, stupid, evil and malicious, then all those that turn a blind eye to the monumental difference between Palestine and Israel, in favour of Palestine. Are bad, stupid, evil and malicious.

Actually, CDNbear, Israel is superior to Palestine on many different levels. I admit that. I am aware of that, and I'd say it again. Israel has better living conditions, Israel has a better functioning government, Israel has superior technology, just to name a few. I did not favour Palestine as a place anywhere in this thread, or elsewhere - in general.

What I was posting for was to show that Israel is in the position of power. To show that Israel has been the oppressor in this conflict; it's not even matched, not by any statistics or figures available anywhere (Israel has the support of the biggest military power in the word: USA. That alone should be enough to recognize their superior might). Palestine resorts to terrorism because they're desperate for liberation, even desperate for revenge. Notice that I even admitted that's unjustifiable.

Yes, Hamas has a written policy of terror. Israel looks nicer from the media, but the facts and statistics show they've done far more damage. In terms of causalities, infrastructural damage, and indisputably territorial acquisition.

 

[gerryh]

Be fair. Canada - relative to all other countries - has religious freedom. If you're of a minority religion, life isn't as bad in Canada as it is elsewhere. I take qualms with funded Catholic school boards - which have a policy of discrimination - too, but that alone isn't enough to dismiss the fact Canada is pretty well off in terms of religious freedom.

You want to explain and back up the statement in red?

 

[Goober]

You want to explain and back up the statement in red?

Do they hire Homosexuals -???????

 

[Nationhood]

You want to explain and back up the statement in red?

Certainly.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.occdsb.on.ca/media.php?mid=51817
Here's one example from the Ottawa Catholic School board - which receives funding from the province. This policy clearly states that they will only consider Catholic to be teachers (with the exception there's not enough Catholics around). This school board isn't the only one to have this policy, and this isn't the only discriminatory policy.

Toronto Catholic District School Board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here, for another example.

 

[gerryh]

I guess you should have been more specific in your condemnation rather than so sweeping. In Alberta ANYONE can enroll in a Catholic school. Since Teachers in Catholic Schools are expected to be able to teach Catholic Values etc, it would be counter productive to hire non catholics as teachers,no?

 

[Goober]

Certainly.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.occdsb.on.ca/media.php?mid=51817
Here's one example from the Ottawa Catholic School board - which receives funding from the province. This policy clearly states that they will only consider Catholic to be teachers (with the exception there's not enough Catholics around). This school board isn't the only one to have this policy, and this isn't the only discriminatory policy.

Toronto Catholic District School Board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here, for another example.

That does not prove it - The BNA covers that - Read your wiki link.

I guess you should have been more specific in your condemnation rather than so sweeping. In Alberta ANYONE can enroll in a Catholic school. Since Teachers in Catholic Schools are expected to be able to teach Catholic Values etc, it would be counter productive to hire non catholics as teachers,no?

Gerry - That should be Roman Catholic values -

 

[Nationhood]

That does not prove it - The BNA covers that - Read your wiki link.

That doesn't prove what? I said they have policy of discrimination. My links completely prove that.

 

[Goober]

That doesn't prove what? I said they have policy of discrimination. My links completely prove that.

The constitutionally provided mandate of a separate school jurisdiction and of a separate school is to provide education in a school setting that the separate school board considers reflective of Roman Catholic (or, rarely, Protestant) theology, doctrine, and practices. This mandate can manifest itself in the Program of Studies and the curriculum, exercises and practices, and staffing. The limits of this mandate are determined by the application of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and judicial decisions

Separate school - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look for judicial decisons

 

[gerryh]

From your silence nationhood, I gather you are another one of those bigoted no minds that have no idea as to the history or purpose of our separate school systems. Your only purpose is to spew your vile bullshyte.

 

[Nationhood]

Uh-huh. So I guess their open policies to discriminate against non-Catholic students and teachers are not actually discriminatory policies. Cognizant dissonance must be a policy of yours.

 

[Goober]

From your silence nationhood, I gather you are another one of those bigoted no minds that have no idea as to the history or purpose of our separate school systems. Your only purpose is to spew your vile bullshyte.

Well he is at least young enough to learn. Your time is running short.
This is better than being a fly on the wall -

 

[gerryh]

Uh-huh. So I guess their open policies to discriminate against non-Catholic students and teachers are not actually discriminatory policies. Cognizant dissonance must be a policy of yours.

Who are "they" numbnuts? I've already stated that in Alberta ANYONE can go to a Catholic school. Just because Ontario, or SOME, districts in Ontario don't allow it does not equate to ALL Catholic separate school boards. I've also stated ONE of the things expected of a Catholic teacher, something you have conveniently also not addressed. Typical of a bigoted moron.

 

[Goober]

Who are "they" numbnuts? I've already stated that in Alberta ANYONE can go to a Catholic school. Just because Ontario, or SOME, districts in Ontario don't allow it does not equate to ALL Catholic separate school boards. I've also stated ONE of the things expected of a Catholic teacher, something you have conveniently also not addressed. Typical of a bigoted moron.

This is better than being a fly on the wall -

I can see it all and only 2 cannot see what I write. I am having a real hoot out of this.

Who are "they" numbnuts? I've already stated that in Alberta ANYONE can go to a Catholic school. Just because Ontario, or SOME, districts in Ontario don't allow it does not equate to ALL Catholic separate school boards. I've also stated ONE of the things expected of a Catholic teacher, something you have conveniently also not addressed. Typical of a bigoted moron.

Alberta Education - Public and Separate Schools

Establishing a Separate School District
The right of the religious minority, either Protestant or Roman Catholic, to establish a separate school district is enshrined in legislation. The Government has made a commitment to have one publicly funded system of education with two dimensions, the public schools and the separate schools. The purpose of this information package is to inform separate school electors of the process available to them when establishing a separate school district.