Autism... caused by Vaccinations?

Praxius

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From the original article explaining the girl has a mitochondrial disorder which was possibly aggravated by the vaccine:

In a news conference on Thursday, Dr. Edwin Trevathan, director of the National Center for Birth Defects and Development Disabilities at the disease control agency, said, “I don’t think we have any science that would lead us to believe that mitochondrial disorders are caused by vaccines.”

Dr. Trevathan explained that children with mitochondrial disorders often develop normally until they come down with an infection. Then their mitochondria are unable to manufacture the energy needed to nourish the brain. As a result, they regress.

Ding ding:

“I don’t think we have any science that would lead us to believe that mitochondrial disorders are caused by vaccines.”

They have no science to confirm this.... basically saying there's nothing wrong. How about they get off their asses and do the studies to prove one way or another if they have an effect or not?

And "I Don't Think" isn't very scientific or certain now is it?

It's comments like these that give me hessitation on just following what they tell us.

Once again.... all I am saying is to just educate yourselves about what you plan on putting into your bodies.... this I refer to pretty well anything in life, not just vaccines or Px's. (call it my mother's medical upbringing)
 
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dancing-loon

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Plus I also put into factor my own personal life experiences, my own health, and those in which I talk to on an everyday basis. I have a few friends, one of which I just finished talking to who seem to be so screwed up in their lives, always sick, headaches, depression and the sort, where they never had it to the extent they do now, whom have been loaded up on Px's to fix their problems.... now they're much worse then before, have more side effects to deal with, and the doctors just give them more Px's to counter the side effects of the original Px's. Like seriously, wtf kind of solution is that?

I see what they go through, plus what I went through not too long ago, and to be perfectly honest, I don't trust these companies and organizations have any of our best interests at heart. The fact that this family in the first post won their battle in relation to what happened to their child, it just adds onto my original opinions of these organizations. Apparently they won in the court of law, therefore there must have been something screwed up going on and the company which gave them this vaccine were found liable for what happened to their kid.... so my only point is that vaccines, at least some of them, are a risk to some people's health and I only hope people just look into these things before taking action, nothing more.
Hi, Praxius;
I know I have disappointed you by not coming back into the discussion. Frankly, all this rhetoric overwhelms me. I have my suspicions on drugs and vaccines, and those suspicions will not go away, because underneath it all I have a different philosophy about life, than the average person has. Vaccines have wiped out some diseases, like the small pox for instance. But we have since then acquired a slew of other diseases we are still battling with. Take cancer, diabetes, aids and soooo many mental problems from migrains over depression to suicide.
As young as you are you have already come a long way, I sense that and feel comfortable around you. You have worked and suffered hard to add quality and substance to your character, which reflects in your postings. You never brush just over another's post, but always answer with earnest and integrity. So, please, forgive me my negligence.

To you, my cyber friend, I want to present a different, more expanded, view of the human body and the illnesses and diseases we suffer. Give it a thought, keep the idea in mind as you walk along your path.

http://www.holistichealthtools.com/illness.html

We witnessed a suicide in our family, and it was clearly the result of a spiritual conflict. The person saw no hope, no other way of making the mental torture go away.
Depression is a very debilitating affliction, and drugs actually make it worse. That, what it is supposed to fix, it has listed as one of its side effects!!!! A pill can never heal our soul!!!

The sun is shining here, and I want to go out now and enjoy it! I hope, Praxius, you will always have, at least a little, sunshine in your heart. :-|
 
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tracy

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If the vaccine triggered the autism in this girl as it seem, then yes indeed the vaccine did have an effect on her.

The vaccines may have had an affect on her. They may not. Mitochondrial disorders cause all the symptoms of autism which is why none of the doctors that testified in her favor will even flat out say she is autistic. That pretty clearly says this particular girl isn't the one to prove vaccines cause autism.

What they do know is she has a mitochondrial disorder which is a genetic condition. Children with those conditions often develop normally until they get an infection, at which point they start to regress. This seems to have happened to her BUT, and this is a big BUT, we don't know if it was from the vaccines she received or from the MANY ear infections she had.
 

tracy

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Ding ding:

“I don’t think we have any science that would lead us to believe that mitochondrial disorders are caused by vaccines.”

They have no science to confirm this.... basically saying there's nothing wrong. How about they get off their asses and do the studies to prove one way or another if they have an effect or not?

And "I Don't Think" isn't very scientific or certain now is it?

It's comments like these that give me hessitation on just following what they tell us.

Once again.... all I am saying is to just educate yourselves about what you plan on putting into your bodies.... this I refer to pretty well anything in life, not just vaccines or Px's. (call it my mother's medical upbringing)

Mitochondrial disorders are caused by genetics. We don't have any scientific research to show vaccines don't cause babies' hair to turn pink. It's because we don't need one. We do have LOTS of studies to show that vaccines and thimerisol don't cause autism as was once asserted.
 

karrie

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I think what gets me the most is that I was 'anti-vaccine'. Based on information given to me by holistic healers. Tons and tons of information. But when it came time to really decide, I had to look at all the factors, and almost all of that information turned up flawed or false. I brought it back to the woman who gave it to me, and her answer? "Don't believe them, they're out to get us."

To me the VAST majority of information against vaccines is based in 'them' being out to get 'us'. Who 'they' are exactly is never clear (since our health system is NOT tied to vaccines like the US), and the detractors of vaccines can never flat out tell you. If you refute the evidence, they point to the few anecdotal cases of trouble (yes, side effects, we all know there are side effects). If the debate didn't seem so built on paranoia, I might give it much more credit.
 

tracy

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Karrie, I think this issue is a classic example of people who will ignore any evidence that challenges their belief. It was always thimerisol causes autism!!! It's mercury!!! It's causing autism to become an epidemic!!! We need to take it out of our vaccines or not vaccinate!!! ..... Then fast forward to today. Vaccines haven't had thimerisol in them in this country for years, yet autism cases continue to increase. So now the people saying it was thimerisol ignore that, and they just say it's some other additive even though they have NO scientific evidence.
 

Praxius

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Hi, Praxius;
I know I have disappointed you by not coming back into the discussion.

Not at all, everybody has something outside of the net to do.... my work just involves it, soo.....

Frankly, all this rhetoric overwhelms me. I have my suspicions on drugs and vaccines, and those suspicions will not go away, because underneath it all I have a different philosophy about life, than the average person has. Vaccines have wiped out some diseases, like the small pox for instance. But we have since then acquired a slew of other diseases we are still battling with. Take cancer, diabetes, aids and soooo many mental problems from migrains over depression to suicide.

It does raise some questions....

As young as you are you have already come a long way, I sense that and feel comfortable around you. You have worked and suffered hard to add quality and substance to your character, which reflects in your postings. You never brush just over another's post, but always answer with earnest and integrity. So, please, forgive me my negligence.

Once again, no worries... I don't actually respond to every post of course. If it's directed to me, then I'll at least attempt a response (Unless it's sorta Dik'ish)

To you, my cyber friend, I want to present a different, more expanded, view of the human body and the illnesses and diseases we suffer. Give it a thought, keep the idea in mind as you walk along your path. <http://www.holistichealthtools.com/illness.html>

That's an interesting read and does follow along the lines of my own beliefs. It does explain many of the common problems which are related to depression, physical pains, etc. but does not cover how to cure things such as AIDS, Cancer and the sort, as I am sure that dealing with what is bothering you in your life mentally and socially, will not cure these types of illness. So there is a hole left in the explination unfortunatly.

To fill in those gaps, one must take away from the spiritual aspect and look a bit more to the core of the problem. As I mentioned in a few other threads relating to this one, most illnesses which are now filled with cures from pills and other medications can be very easily delt with without medication if people just reach out to one another and share problems in order to solve them. Once you feel the connection with others, to know that you are not the only one to go through this, that depression is an emotion, not a disease, then you can learn to solve your problems which cause these illnesses and then they do indeed leave.... or at the very least, you know how to place some level of control over it, rather then it controlling you.

My depression is far better then it used to be. I learned what was causing the problems and I got rid of them in my life.... the anti-depressants were one of the problems. I could go on for longer explaining more things in my position, but then I'd start to repeat what I already said in other threads in relation to this.

We witnessed a suicide in our family, and it was clearly the result of a spiritual conflict. The person saw no hope, no other way of making the mental torture go away.

Although very close to a relation to how I think about the topic, the one big difference between your belief and my own, is the spiritual part. No, I'm not saying it is foolish to believe in a spiritual link, because it may very well be. But I always felt that claiming something spiritual or a god is partially responsible for the problems we have in our lives is a form of escape from our own personal responsibilities in our lives. We humans, you, I, our friends, enemies, strangers, everyone on this planet is responsible for how we treat and care for one another. I feel that attempting any form of help even if it doesn't work out, can make all the difference.

Do not get me wrong, as I am certainly not trying to potray responsibility of the suicide on you or anybody else in your family.... we make our own decisions in life and we always have a choice. Sometimes people just either can not express the problems bothering them, or they choose not to... sometimes they just don't know there is a problem and considder it a part of their "Normal" lives. I was one who chose not to most times..... which is a dangerous place to be when you begin to isolate yourself. But I feel the first step in solving these delimas in our lives, is to share and communicate. We are not an isolated species but a pack, and thus we must act like one, and that alone is the first step.

Depression is a very debilitating affliction, and drugs actually make it worse. That, what it is supposed to fix, it has listed as one of its side effects!!!! A pill can never heal our soul!!!

True.... and one explination for suicides and those school shootings is the fact that most of these kids were on medication to "Fix" their problems, while everybody else around them figured that was that and don't bother to take a step forward to actually solve the problems that are truly there. AD's only mask the problems to make you think they're either gone or they're not problems. Then they get much worse over time and all of a sudden, you're in a much worse place, more isolate, the problems were not solved, and the entire world comes crashing down.

Then when the worst occurs, people say "Oh it was the disease" or "They went off their medication." ~ Going off their medication may have in fact triggered the collapse.... but it was also responsible for it getting as bad as it did tool. If someone needs to go on Ad's... then they also have to realize that AD's are not a cure.... you still need to find out what is causing the problem to be put on them in the first place. If you do not deal with your problems, then the problems will deal with you.

The sun is shining here, and I want to go out now and enjoy it! I hope, Praxius, you will always have, at least a little, sunshine in your heart. :-|

We Germans are not all Smiles un Sunshine...... well ok, I'm Irish, but there ya go. Yeah, it's all good for now :p
 

Praxius

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Mitochondrial disorders are caused by genetics. We don't have any scientific research to show vaccines don't cause babies' hair to turn pink. It's because we don't need one. We do have LOTS of studies to show that vaccines and thimerisol don't cause autism as was once asserted.

You may think we don't need a study, I do.
 

Praxius

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I think what gets me the most is that I was 'anti-vaccine'. Based on information given to me by holistic healers. Tons and tons of information. But when it came time to really decide, I had to look at all the factors, and almost all of that information turned up flawed or false. I brought it back to the woman who gave it to me, and her answer? "Don't believe them, they're out to get us."

That is also the same lines as what I was trying to say..... no matter who you get your information from, it's always best to actually think for yourself and your family to determine what is best, no matter what the situation.

If someone tells me all vaccines are what's causing us to no longer live to be over 100 like the people in the Bible, then they gotta back it up as to why. Same as if they claim Vaccines are the be all cure for everything that ales us.... tell me and show me why. If you make no sense, then bugger off eh!

I personally sit on the fence for Vaccines... I will determine each one on a case by case basis when the time comes.
 

tracy

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You may think we don't need a study, I do.

To show what? That vaccines don't turn babies' hair pink? They've already done tons of studies into the safety of vaccines in general and on their connection to autism. They could start looking at children with mitochondrial disorders and their reactions to vaccines, but of course that represents a very small population so I don't know how easy it would be.
 

Praxius

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To show what? That vaccines don't turn babies' hair pink?

No the topic foo... :p

They've already done tons of studies into the safety of vaccines in general and on their connection to autism. They could start looking at children with mitochondrial disorders and their reactions to vaccines, but of course that represents a very small population so I don't know how easy it would be.

Fair enough... but one thing mentioned above was the childs continued infections of the ears and getting sick etc.... if vaccines inject a dormant virus for your body to fight off, thereby tricking the body that it is infected, then that alone triggered sickness and also could have triggered the autism. If the chances of that occuring are there, no matter how remote, then parents (esspeciall those with it known in the family) should be made aware of this before they make a decision.

More knowlege is better then less.
 

karrie

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No the topic foo... :p



Fair enough... but one thing mentioned above was the childs continued infections of the ears and getting sick etc.... if vaccines inject a dormant virus for your body to fight off, thereby tricking the body that it is infected, then that alone triggered sickness and also could have triggered the autism. If the chances of that occuring are there, no matter how remote, then parents (esspeciall those with it known in the family) should be made aware of this before they make a decision.

More knowlege is better then less.

The problem there is that different disorders can be triggered by different things. Avoid vaccinating your kid, they catch the ACTUAL virus, and bang, autism anyway.
 

tracy

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No the topic foo... :p



Fair enough... but one thing mentioned above was the childs continued infections of the ears and getting sick etc.... if vaccines inject a dormant virus for your body to fight off, thereby tricking the body that it is infected, then that alone triggered sickness and also could have triggered the autism. If the chances of that occuring are there, no matter how remote, then parents (esspeciall those with it known in the family) should be made aware of this before they make a decision.

More knowlege is better then less.

That's the family's argument.... Well, that the vaccine triggered an immune response as it was meant to and that caused the body to use more energy than it could produce because of her mitochondrial disorder. The mitochondrial disorder's symptoms then started and they are autism-like. Parents of children with the disorder may need to be warned. The problem is they probably wouldn't even know their child had that disorder until the symptoms start appearing. It's so rare that it isn't something routinely tested for. That could be an area that needs more research (vaccines and how they affect children with mito disorders). The autism link has been studied and rejected over and over and over again.
 

tracy

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The problem there is that different disorders can be triggered by different things. Avoid vaccinating your kid, they catch the ACTUAL virus, and bang, autism anyway.

Or the ear infections they have anyways cause it. Or the flu.... or any number of childhood ailments. A child with mitochondrial disorder is likely to get an infection at some point. I'm not a parent, but I bet it's pretty hard to keep those little suckers germ free:lol:
 

Praxius

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Ah, like Mrs. Dion says "It's all comming back to me now"

Here is a good case in point on my concerns towards vaccinations:



Worries remain about HPV vaccine side effects
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070911/hpv_vaccine_070911/20070911/

..... But Shannon Nelson, an 18-year-old athlete from outside of Chicago, wonders about the vaccine. She got the HPV shot at the same time as two other vaccines. Within a week, she developed Guillian-Barre Syndrome (GBS), a mysterious autoimmune disorder that causes muscle weakness and paralysis. In Nelson's case, she developed paralysis that lasted for over two months.

"I couldn't sit up in bed, I could not lift up my arms," she recalls. "I appear recovered but I'm not. I can't feel my hands and feet that good."

Nelson's parents reported what happened to their daughter to U.S. health authorities. So did more than a dozen other people who suspected their cases of GBS were linked to the HPV vaccine after they received it either on its own or with other vaccines.

The CDC says they cannot prove a link.

"In most of the cases we reviewed, it appeared as though there were other factors more likely to be the cause of the Guillain-Barré," says Iskander. "It's a pretty rare event. But you know, in a population of 7 million people, some cases are going to happen."

oh ok, so forget about it then, just take your chances on them.... the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, even if you yourself are the affected one I suppose....

Iskander says a vaccine used in the U.S. against meningococcal disease, called Menactra, has been linked to GBS, in rare occasions.

"In fact, about half of the reports involving Gardasil also involved this other vaccine. So it may be there is a bit of sort of innocent bystander effect, if you will, which is part of why those reports are showing up," he says.

There also have been seven deaths reported in the U.S after an HPV injection. But four have been attributed to other causes. In three cases, officials say there's insufficient data to conclude the HPV vaccine was the cause......

Of course.... but frig people, doesn't that raise a few alarm bells and perhaps point towards maybe finding out for sure?

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the unlucky person in 100 out of the million or so to get such side effects that critically imobolize you.... or even death (In regards to any vaccine) esspecially when it comes to a vaccine for something you might not even get in your lifetime, but given to you just "to be safe"

And regardless if it wasn't the HPV vaccine, they pointed to another vaccine causing the problems..... ding ding ding.... alarm bells. There are still risks involved with certain vaccines and rushing them out such as they did with the HPV and not even telling people there might be a remote chance of minor or serious side effect and using your children in school as lab rats, and then finally hearing about the side effects form people in the news, rather then the people making the stuff, to me is beyond acceptable.

When this HPV came out, I knew off the bat that if I had children or I myself was a female at the age requirement for the shot, I was sure as hell not going to be one of the first to try it out, as I was almost sure I would hear about cases such as this one, and I did such as above not even that long after it came out in the news that the government was going to send it across the country.....

Once again be very aware of what you are getting involved into.

And once again still "there were other factors more likely to be the cause" and "I think it's reassuring that it is acceptably safe" and "The vaccine does appear to be safe" are by no means absolutes, nor are they all that comforting when face to face with situations as above.

"More Likely, I think and Appears to be safe" are not answers.
 
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karrie

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The problem is, you could inject saline into the population in general, and it will never be absolutely safe, absolutely risk free, or even without side effect. No medication is.

But it's a bit of a gamble. Where do you prefer your odds? Do you prefer the risk of damage/death from the vaccines (and the medical industry doesn't pretend there are none, just go visit an immunization clinic)? Or do you prefer the risks of each of the individual diseases?
 

Praxius

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I personally prefer to determine individually the potiential risks of such viruses and diseases to where I live, the society surrounding me, known causes of them, my personal lifestyle in relation, and compare to the vaccines, their side effects, the actual practicality of taking the individual vaccines, and see what comes from that.

One thing I noticed as a trend in cases I have read up on, is that most of the more serious side effects that were brought out were usually from multiple vaccines being injected at once. Perhaps it would be more wise to stagger them per year, rather then unloading them into your body all at once. Sorta sounds like a reaction between them causing major complications within the bodys' struture of proper defence.
 

dancing-loon

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Praxius, I'll be back tomorrow to answer your response to my post. I want to do some investigating first.

While on a search I found this page, which talks about vaccines and MS.
Chronic adverse reactions associated with hepatitis B vaccination. In conclusion, our study demonstrates that adult HBV is statistically associated not only with acute neuropathy, neuritis, myelitis, vasculitis, thrombocytopenia, gastrointestinal disease, multiple sclerosis, and arthritis,.....
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ms.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, Massachusetts, says in a news release.
"We estimated that immunization against hepatitis B was associated with a threefold increase
in the incidence of MS within the three years following vaccination."

http://www.whale.to/a/hep78.html
 

Praxius

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"Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, Massachusetts, says in a news release.
"We estimated that immunization against hepatitis B was associated with a threefold increase
in the incidence of MS within the three years following vaccination."


Another case in point, thanks.
 

dancing-loon

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That's an interesting read and does follow along the lines of my own beliefs. It does explain many of the common problems which are related to depression, physical pains, etc. but does not cover how to cure things such as AIDS, Cancer and the sort, as I am sure that dealing with what is bothering you in your life mentally and socially, will not cure these types of illness. So there is a hole left in the explanation unfortunately.
It appears that way, but what I wanted to mention to you is that we are not just our body. We are also soul and spirit. Our emotions, or feelings, are very powerful and do have an impact on the health of our physical body. The body being the last station where the "illness, the stress the unease" between spirit and soul finally manifest.
Dr. Edward Bach, a noted doctor, homeopath, bacteriologist and immunologist, who believed that a healthy mind is the key to physical well-being, spent his life looking for a treatment method that would be gentle and harmless, developed the remedies in the 1930s. The 38 Bach Flower Remedies are made from non-poisonous wild flowers and help you manage your emotions, working gently to restore balance and emotional well-being.

To restore balance seems to me the key factor. If we have inner balance, then there is harmony and peace, and the body will function in good health.
There are other practitioners besides Dr. Bach, who work along the same principle. Heal the spirit-mind.
Our thoughts are not just empty nothings, they are powerful over time and can wreak havoc with our health. Jealousy, hate, fear, guilt and anger are destructive to our souls. Love, kindness, humor and generosity make us feel good and we relax and let joy take over.
We have to recognize we are spiritual beings first and foremost!
Fill in those gaps, one must take away from the spiritual aspect and look a bit more to the core of the problem. As I mentioned in a few other threads relating to this one, most illnesses which are now filled with cures from pills and other medications can be very easily delt with without medication if people just reach out to one another and share problems in order to solve them. Once you feel the connection with others, to know that you are not the only one to go through this, that depression is an emotion, not a disease, then you can learn to solve your problems which cause these illnesses and then they do indeed leave.... or at the very least, you know how to place some level of control over it, rather then it controlling you.
That sounds very positive and creates honesty, openness and trust to other human beings. It relieves the soul from pressure and stress. Wonderfully explained, Praxius.
My depression is far better then it used to be. I learned what was causing the problems and I got rid of them in my life.... the anti-depressants were one of the problems. I could go on for longer explaining more things in my position, but then I'd start to repeat what I already said in other threads in relation to this.
I got your point and find it encouraging to read.
Although very close to a relation to how I think about the topic, the one big difference between your belief and my own, is the spiritual part. No, I'm not saying it is foolish to believe in a spiritual link, because it may very well be. But I always felt that claiming something spiritual or a god is partially responsible for the problems we have in our lives is a form of escape from our own personal responsibilities in our lives. We humans, you, I, our friends, enemies, strangers, everyone on this planet is responsible for how we treat and care for one another. I feel that attempting any form of help even if it doesn't work out, can make all the difference.
We understand each other perfectly, Praxius. I did not mean believing God will fix everything if we plead with him. No, that's not what I meant. What I meant is that we have a soul and spirit as well as our physical body. When all three are in harmony sickness can not abide with us for long. We need the awareness how our feelings and emotions have an impact on our health.
By reaching out and connecting with another person or several, we are already reducing the tension, the loneliness, the mental and emotional stress and start to feel better.
Do not get me wrong, as I am certainly not trying to portray responsibility of the suicide on you or anybody else in your family.... we make our own decisions in life and we always have a choice.
YES, we do!! But, all alone the troubled person doesn't see a viable choice. He tried to reach out, but the person he chose wasn't available just then.
Sometimes people just either can not express the problems bothering them, or they choose not to... sometimes they just don't know there is a problem and consider it a part of their "Normal" lives. I was one who chose not to most times..... which is a dangerous place to be when you begin to isolate yourself. But I feel the first step in solving these delimas in our lives, is to share and communicate. We are not an isolated species but a pack, and thus we must act like one, and that alone is the first step.
So true! Aren't we anyway all in the same boat? After reading your struggle I recognize myself how depressed I was and didn't really know it for quite a while.
True.... and one explanation for suicides and those school shootings is the fact that most of these kids were on medication to "Fix" their problems, while everybody else around them figured that was that and don't bother to take a step forward to actually solve the problems that are truly there. AD's only mask the problems to make you think they're either gone or they're not problems. Then they get much worse over time and all of a sudden, you're in a much worse place, more isolate, the problems were not solved, and the entire world comes crashing down.
A hug for you, dear Praxius!!
If you do not deal with your problems, then the problems will deal with you.
Wise words indeed, probably from someone who has experienced just that, I guess.
We Germans are not all Smiles und Sunshine...... well ok, I'm Irish, but there ya go. Yeah, it's all good for now :p
Nobody ever is all sunny and happy, that just doesn't happen, but we can consciously try to remind ourselves to let some sunshine into our hearts from time to time.
Irish, eh? At 6'6 you are pretty tall and could pass for a German from the Waterkant!!;-)

How nice it is with modern tools to reach across the miles and connect with another human being! Age, gender or race doesn't really matter, it is the spirits that converse.

Take care Praxius!