Attackz on Chavez a Travesty

[normbc9]

I see Hugo Chavez as a patriot who did succeed in getting elected in a constitutional forum and it shocked the in crowd in venezuela. Now they are looking for someone to get in a kick him out of office. That is because of his popularity with the working people who have been forgotten by the previous politicians who really "Own the place" and now their bastions of power and control are challenged and the new President is doing some things to enhance the standing of that nation in the world theater. Nationalization of the Petroleum Industry makes sense to me. It is high time the US gave it some serious thought too. The big guys in industry would sure tone down if that was a possibilty for their sectors of the marketplace. When Wsahington sends him the "Enough" message he answers with a challenge. Again, Washington (the great distributor of foreign aid) hasn't been talked to like that in years. They are stunned to think that a small nation like Venezuela would tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. If they did, Preparation H would disappear from the Pharmacy shelves and we'd have another cruisis of supply and demand take place. I hope this guy succeeds with his plans before the big guys have Guido come by for target practice.

 

[gopher]

If Bush had any real principles, he would endorse Chavez as he got into office democratically. After all, that was Bush's professed wish for the world.

 

[wallyj]

If Bush had any real principles, he would endorse Chavez as he got into office democratically. After all, that was Bush's professed wish for the world.

Good point.You cannot pick and choose which democracy is good.Heck,we elected a cabal of thieves for years and never got bombed. However, I think hugo overstepped his office when he had his majority give him "official Decree " or something like that . This gives him ultimate power without checks and balances. I will post here on monday night with an opinion from my friend who is down there right now.

 

[sepehr]

I believe this is for the people of Venezuela to decide. If he violates internatianal law, he becomes an international concern. Venezuela should be left alone. Meddling of developed countries in developing countries = disaster and resentment. Unless a Rwanda/ Former Yugoslavia style genocide is taking place, stay out. They can do whatever they want with their economy; its not up to anyone from the outside to say what they can or cannot do.

Its their oil. They can do whatever the hell they want with it. If they chose not to sell it, then we'll have to deal with higher energy costs. Teaches us to get off fossil fuels.

America and Canada are unlikely to go full socialist. There's too much money to be made by too many people (ie: an e[FONT=&quot]ntrepreneurial[/FONT] middle class).

Incidentally, capatalism in a developing country causes a lot of misery. The gap between rich and poor is too large. Oil money can definately be used by the government to develop the country's infrastructure, offer social programs. Sure, there will be people in Chavez's regime lining their pockets with oil money, but the majority of money will benefit Venezuelans.

 

[sepehr]

They are stunned to think that a small nation like Venezuela would tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

Iran's been doing it since '79.

 

[CDNBear]

I see Hugo Chavez as a patriot who did succeed in getting elected in a constitutional forum and it shocked the in crowd in venezuela. Now they are looking for someone to get in a kick him out of office. That is because of his popularity with the working people who have been forgotten by the previous politicians who really "Own the place" and now their bastions of power and control are challenged and the new President is doing some things to enhance the standing of that nation in the world theater. Nationalization of the Petroleum Industry makes sense to me. It is high time the US gave it some serious thought too. The big guys in industry would sure tone down if that was a possibilty for their sectors of the marketplace. When Wsahington sends him the "Enough" message he answers with a challenge. Again, Washington (the great distributor of foreign aid) hasn't been talked to like that in years. They are stunned to think that a small nation like Venezuela would tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. If they did, Preparation H would disappear from the Pharmacy shelves and we'd have another cruisis of supply and demand take place. I hope this guy succeeds with his plans before the big guys have Guido come by for target practice.

If Bush had any real principles, he would endorse Chavez as he got into office democratically. After all, that was Bush's professed wish for the world.

I believe this is for the people of Venezuela to decide. If he violates internatianal law, he becomes an international concern. Venezuela should be left alone. Meddling of developed countries in developing countries = disaster and resentment. Unless a Rwanda/ Former Yugoslavia style genocide is taking place, stay out. They can do whatever they want with their economy; its not up to anyone from the outside to say what they can or cannot do.

Its their oil. They can do whatever the hell they want with it. If they chose not to sell it, then we'll have to deal with higher energy costs. Teaches us to get off fossil fuels.

America and Canada are unlikely to go full socialist. There's too much money to be made by too many people (ie: an e[FONT=&quot]ntrepreneurial[/FONT] middle class).

Incidentally, capatalism in a developing country causes a lot of misery. The gap between rich and poor is too large. Oil money can definately be used by the government to develop the country's infrastructure, offer social programs. Sure, there will be people in Chavez's regime lining their pockets with oil money, but the majority of money will benefit Venezuelans.

1) The nazi party was democratically elected.
2) Chavez has given himself powers, not unlike the powers Hitler gave himself, Stalin gave himself, Pniochet, Noreaga, etc etc etc.
3) That coupled with his silencing of the opposition, seems pretty dark, doesn't that desturb you three?

 

[sepehr]

Yes, it is disturbing. I will however point you to the Patriot act and the powers of the president in the US, and the emergency powers the Prime Minister of Canada can assume.

But remember this is not a first world nation. People do not have the same perception of government and their rights as they do here. They will have to go through the ups and downs of a newer democracy before the government stablizes into a system similar to that in this country. All it takes is time, no meddling, and not giving their radicals an external enemy to demonize.

Rhetoric, sanctions, military action, all these things will fuel resentment, and make charismatic leaders with a dictatorial streak (such as Chavez) even more attractive to the masses.

I will go as far as saying that the Islamic radicals in the Iranian revolution would not have been able to wrest control from the Liberals and Socialists if the history of American, British and Russian meddling and influence in Iran did not exist. They (the mullahs) did, after all, have the support of the majority of Iranians at the time. I have no doubts that Iran will slowly transition to more democracy in time. It takes the struggle of the people themselves, not the influence of foreign powers. Don't look at Germany as an example. They did, after all, have a good idea of what free press and democracy mean.

When voters in the developed West still vote like a mob, without much perosnal thought, what can be expected of people in the developing nations? Why is man who comes off as a complete idiot in office in the US? Why would people vote for him? Why do the racist, extreme right-wingers persist in European parliaments, even in the very liberal Netherlands?

Look at the examples in Iraq, Palestine (where the elections were closely supervised by UN officials to ensure legallity and fairness). I'm sure if you had truly free elections in Somalia where everybody could run, the Islamists would be very successful, given their image in that country.

In the end, it does not take much to sink any country into chaos. Look at what happens during the holiday season a the malls, how people trample eachother just to get at a DVD player. What if they were starving and trying to get at food? What would they do then?

 

[gopher]

Bush was democratically elected and gave himself powers not enumerated in the Constitution. The difference being that he used them to commit abuses overseas as well as Stateside while Chavez's politics only effect the situation within his borders. Therefore, it is of no concern to the USA.